Flying Club

abqtj

abqtj

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
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371
Location
Albuquerque, NM
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abqtj
So I'll have my PPL finally in a few months and I've looked around for flying clubs in my area.

Slim pickings, to say the least. Some of you in more active areas, count your blessings.

Anyway, there's one I found last night on AOPA that looks appealing. They have 1 plane, a 1956 Cessna 172. Pretty low total time, 3800 hrs, and only about 200 SMOH. It would be a 1/8th share. Buy in and monthly dues are reasonable (for me).

What should I look for? What are the gotchas to try and uncover?

Thanks
 
From my flying club experience (I am in a pretty good one right now) make sure you see what the scheduling is like for the aircraft. I have seen clubs that have excessive rules on schedule/cancellation. At our club we do up to 240 hours scheduled at once, 3 maximum reservations at a time and reservations can be up to 90 days in advance and this works for us. I was previously in a club that requires 1 hour of flying per 24 for reservations and this also seems to work well.

Also, find out what the structure is as far as what you own. Are you actually going to legally acquire a 1/8 stake in the airplane or are you just becoming a member of the club. Personally I stay away from clubs that give you ownership in the airplane as you can’t just “walk away” from this.

Those are the big items that come to mind from my club experience. You will enjoy it.
 
You might take a look at their scheduling history for the past year to see what the usage has been and how it might interfere with your intended flying. I'd look at how they treat major repairs/overhauls (do they have a cash reserve or is it everyone splits the bill out of pocket when it occurs). Weigh out the monthly fixed expenses versus the number of hours you truly intend to fly to see if it fits better than rental or outright ownership. Also, how do they deal with multi-day/overnight trips?

As far as the air-worthiness of the plane itself, I'd just look at overall appearance/condition. I doubt there's too much a novice will be able to tell from sight alone. I'd certainly want to know about any squawks or deferred maintenance as well as go on a test flight to hear/feel how she flies.
 
Here's a list of questions I made when researching our local clubs. Some may not apply, but most will. Also, post a specific thread on a few different forums with a subject like "Looking for flying club/partnership near Albuquerque" for better responses. I've found that there are a lot of clubs who don't advertise well or at all. Some of them usually have full rosters and don't need any online presence, while some of them are struggling to find members.

Club Strategy/Vision/Future
  1. What is the vision for the next 5-10 years? Aircraft upgrades/paint/interior? Different A/C? After that? How to handle aging membership?
  2. How many primary students are there?
  3. How many new members do we get in a year (or 5, or whatever)?
  4. How many people are trying to get out?
  5. How many members are paying their dues?
  6. What is the minimum number of dues paying members the club needs to remain solvent? How many members are currently paying?
  7. What equipment is going in what aircraft?

Club Activity
  1. Any club activities besides the meetings?

Club Finance
  1. Insurance? Am I a named member on the club policy?
  2. Are any upgrades scheduled now?
  3. What is the breakdown of allocations for dues and hourly aircraft rates?
  4. What are the budgets and reserves? Are they broken down for each plane, or are all of the reserve funds commingled?
  5. Has the club had to assess members in the past to raise funds for upgrades/repairs/etc.? Is an assessment anticipated?

Operations
  1. How much does each plane fly per year, on average?
  2. What restrictions are there on reserving airplanes for overnight trips?
  3. What's required for a checkout in an airplane? Can I check out in the Warrior in an hour or two? Does a sign off in the Warrior apply to the Archer, too?
  4. Any currency requirements beyond the FARs?
  5. Are there electronic copies of POH/PIM for the aircraft?
  6. Does anyone have Foreflight profiles set up for the planes?
 
Aircraft availability is critically important - if the plane is being booked every weekend by the same few members, you'll never get access to it. Some clubs have a small group of active pilots who monopolize access to the plane. So as others have said, find out what the rules are and make sure you get "guest" access to their scheduling website and look back over the last year (not the last couple of months) to get an idea of how much the plane is used.

Ask a lot of questions about maintenance - do they perform 100-hour inspections or just annual inspections and as-needed maintenance? How are squawks handled? Do they have a mechanic on the field? How much downtime has the plane had in the last year for maintenance? (should be visible on the scheduling website)

How do you get out if you want to sell? What about special assessments for upgrades, etc. - how are those handled?

If it's not too hard to get out, there's not a lot of risk in joining (possibly even now, before you finish your PPL if they accept student pilots). If you're going to be "trapped" in your membership until someone else takes your spot, that might be more of something to consider.

And of course, if you haven't contacted the club at all yet, you may find out they're full and have 15 people on the waiting list...
 
I think @Eric Gleason hit most of the big items.

Except:
Is there any debt? If the plane or hangar have loans against them, who holds the note? Bank or a private funding source?
 
I also think @Eric Gleason's list hit all the major points. So did @Ravioli's add ons.

My addition would be regarding debt.... what would be your individual financial responsibility should something bad happen and the note gets called by the bank.

Is insurance coverage (for you and not just the hull) included? If you are the pilot involved when damage happens to the aircraft, is the club's insurance going to take care of it? What money (if any) would you be responsible for?
 
All the above comments are valid, and make sure they have a few $$ in the bank to cover whatever crops up.
 
1/8 share on a low time plane sounds like it’s not flown that much.
Do you know any of the members in the club ?
 
96gs917 said:
All the above comments are valid, and make sure they have a few $$ in the bank to cover whatever crops up.
Click to expand...
Another good point.... And that amount needs to be large enough to cover anything that can break expensive such as an engine.

If the club treasurer is willing to open the books for you and show you some detail about how the club is doing financially, that is a big plus for them.
 
Did we cover how unplanned large expenses would be handled?

Knowing if they get a loan from a bank or do assessments or have a monster reserve for such things might be important to you.
 
Did we cover permitted uses?

Can you do training for additional ratings?

What about overnight and travel? If you fly 2 to 3 hours one way, park on ramp for 4 nights while you enjoy your vacation, and then return, are you only paying flight time? Or are you to be charged a minimum amount of time on the days you didn't use the airplane?

How about Charitable flying like Angel Flight or PnP?
 
i would not want to be a 1/8 owner of a 62 year old 172. Finding someone to buy your share when you want out may be a challenge due to the age of the plane and low level of equipment installed.
 
First question. Is the plane ADS-B compliant? And if not, what is their plan to make it compliant?

Will you actually have to buy a 1/8th share? That sounds more like a partnership than a club. If its a partnership and you will own an actual 1/8th share, what's the exit strategy? Will you be able to sell your share when you want to leave? Will the club buy it back or will you have to find a buyer on your own?

Besides what's been covered already, I'd want to look at the maintenance side of things. Who does their maintenance? When I joined the club I was in, their planes had been serviced for several years by a shade tree type mechanic who would do all work on them right in their tie-down spots. After I was there a few months, they switched to using an actual shop and boy did the bills start coming in from all the work the planes needed that had been differed for years because with the shade tree guy, the planes couldn't sit in the shop. So nothing was done unless the plane could be taken apart and buttoned back up before sundown the same day. Some jobs take longer than that so most of that work had been put off for quite a while. Who has been maintaining the plane? Can you go talk to them? A chat with the mechanic that knows the plane well could reveal a lot about the condition of the plane and the condition of the club itself.
 
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