Flying club members/owners: what’s your AOG policy?

Chilito

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Chilito
Situation: a/c breaks 50 nm from base and won’t be fixed until a later date, with no fault of the member. In the meantime, member gets a ride back home at their own expense. When the a/c is fixed (club mx paid for that), and needs to return to base, does the club treasury

a) absorb the entire cost of flying the aircraft back to base
b) ask the member to return to ABC airport and pick it up, and return the a/c to base at the member’s expense
c) share the cost (ie, 50/50)
d) something else

This issue recently happened and the club had no written policy about it. The member was asked to pay for the tach time to return the a/c to base, despite not being the actual pilot who flew it home.

What’s in your club’s policy?
 
I have not been in a club for along time. It was a "commercial" club, not a co-owner club. The pilot had to pay all expenses to retrieve the plane, including the pro-pilot (me) to fly it home. I never thought that was really fair, but the way it was. I flew some that were weather related and that also applied.
 
I am not a club member, so take this for what little it's worth, but if the aircraft had not broken the original pilot would have been the one to fly it home. It seems to me it's up to him to retrieve it, either by flying it back himself or paying for someone else to do it. Yes, he'll incur some added expense by traveling to the plane's location, but that's the risk you take; he'd have been in the same situation if he'd left the plane there due to weather.

IOW, it seems fair to me that when a pilot takes out a plane he becomes obligated to bring it back. Delays and expenses due to weather or mechanical issues are an assumed risk.
 
I feel like if it is a non-equity club ("not my plane, maintenance is your problem, here is a bag of cash to absolve me of these responsibilities") then the club absorbs these nuisances and does their best to get the member on their way, unscathed.

An equity club, on the other hand ("I own a piece of this cantankerous thing, so I share in its tookus-pain"), then that policy can make sense.

I think only the first policy is "nice" though, people who join clubs can't be expected to be used to how fussy these things are, so being made to suffer seems unfair. Charge enough hourly to bail them out when the plane breaks. I think 80% of plane renters (including non-equity clubs) expect things to run like a Hertz Camry.
 
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For AOG, our partnership generally eats the flight time, it’s budget dust in the grand scheme of things, but every APG is different.
 
From a safety policy standpoint, especially for a non-equity club, I'd have the club absorb the cost, assuming the pilot did not contribute meaningfully to the AOG situation. It is best to not incentivize pilots to "push on" in the face of a mechanical issue in hopes of avoiding retrieval costs.
 
Did the club reimburse the member for his travel expenses caused by the plane being unairworthy? If not, I don't see how this is even a question. And the plane is 50nm away? So we're talking about 5-10 gallons of avgas to get it back? Just MHO, but the club should offer another club aircraft to fly the original member back to retrieve the plane, at the club's expense.
 
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Of the problem was not due to anything the pilot, I think the club should funds should cover the expenses. Now if the pilot locked up the brakes and blew a tire, etc. Then yes, he should be responsible.
 
In my old equity flying club it was typically the aircraft manager that would coordinate to get the airplane back. We just factored the cost into the operating costs. Typically the club sent a second plane to ferry out the maintenance manager (or whoever he designates, including potentially the member who originally flew it out) to retrieve it. The way we worked though, was that the aircraft managers were allocated a certain amount of flight time on a monthly basis for maintenance and monitoring duties, so these flights typically came out of these budgets.

As others have mentioned, the club's intent was not to penalize members for refusing to flying unairworthy aircraft. We tried to stay on top of maintenance as best as possible so AOG events were rare. That said, sometimes they happen and everyone need to know what is to be expected.
 
Having a plane break on you, forcing you to pay for your way home is bad enough. Asking for tach time payment on the return leg after it gets fixed - for a plane you're not flying and using - is a lot of chutzpah.

If our club did that I would say good luck in trying to collect - btw I quit the club.
 
Your club policy should cover these contingencies. There should be a reasonable recovery time/cost stipulation, waiver of lost fees/expenses (i.e. hotel or other,) and who chooses the mechanic. I own my plane and belong to a club. For us, pilot is responsible for everything except mx, unless it is clearly at-fault.
 
The bigger club I used to be in would eat the cost of retrieving the aircraft as part of the maintenance budget. Usually if someone was available, another plane would be dispatched to pick up the stranded member. Iirc they were expected to pay tach hours one way, as though they were flying themselves home.

I also remember a couple times planes got stranded due to weather by vfr only pilots. Again, iirc, they did something similar, so as to encourage pilots not to push marginal weather situations.

The single plane club I'm involved with now I don't think has a written policy, but has done the same as above when faced with the situation, minus of course being able to dispatch a "rescue plane". There's usually someone around though with access to another plane who's willing to do a favor.
 
The airplane should be airworthy before flight and if the club skimped on mx, something happened causing the airplane to be stuck, is basically the fault of the club. To ask the member to pay full price to get the airplane back is a bit ridiculous, the club could fly another airplane out with 2 pilots and recover the airplane back (whether it’s the original pilot or another pilot). There’s no reason to ask for anything cost wise. The airplane would need the mx regardless, perhaps it was a delayed mx that just happened to occur elsewhere.

Even if it was the members fault, I don’t think it would necessarily be appropriate to ask the member to pay anything. These are typically learning environments and these airplanes are not brand new.
 
Having a plane break on you, forcing you to pay for your way home is bad enough. Asking for tach time payment on the return leg after it gets fixed - for a plane you're not flying and using - is a lot of chutzpah.

Hmm, what would happen if it was your own plane???

How about if you borrowed a plane from a friend?

I agree the maintenance is on the club, but you should be responsible for getting it home.
 
What we did (back when I was in a club) is request that the next training flight would carry an available pilot to the offsite aircraft. They available pilot would get free flight time. The training flight was flying anyway. Worked great for many years.
 
Hmm, what would happen if it was your own plane???

As owner I am responsible for it, no one else. I would do and pay what needed to get it back.

How about if you borrowed a plane from a friend?

If I broke the plane, I would return it in the condition it was when I took it. Assuming it was just one of those unexpected mechanical things, I would be as generous as possible to repay the friend's original generosity. I would help him/her get the plane back.

I agree the maintenance is on the club, but you should be responsible for getting it home.
I agreed to pay to rent the plane, the club's part was to provide a working plane for the time I rented it. The club's end of contract was broken when they couldn't provide the plane in the time I rented it (after it broke).
 
From a safety policy standpoint, especially for a non-equity club, I'd have the club absorb the cost, assuming the pilot did not contribute meaningfully to the AOG situation. It is best to not incentivize pilots to "push on" in the face of a mechanical issue in hopes of avoiding retrieval costs.
I am in an equity club with a high focus on safety and that's what we do. We'd rather eat the cost for an instructor and another plane to fly out and get it than have pilots push it through weather or mechanical issues.

In the 5 years I've been a member, it's really only come up a couple of times, so doesn't seem to be a big deal (3 planes and 60 owners). It helps a ton that we have awesome officers, most of whom are retired ATPs and can deal with the MX issue over the phone with the locals and fly IFR if needed in another plane to ferry it back once fixed. It's a pretty great setup.
 
Some theory first.
For a small club, there must be a clear incentive for the members to vote yes for preventive maintenance items. Even short flights can have costs in addition to repairing the plane. Getting back home from Tangier Island can be quite expensive, especially if the ferry bot has left for the mainland.

Voting no increased your personal chance of getting stuck, and incurring owner like costs. That resulted in spending to keep our plane in top condition.
Exceptional cases were addressed in a friendly manner, and some reimbursement took place.
This also discouraged flying at full rental power all the time.
We had few mechanical failures as a result of those policies.

We treated the plane as owned by the member, from the time of departure, until returned to base, but actual cost of repairs were paid by the club.
Getting home the first time, and ferrying the plane home was all yours.

I had one weather related issue, and left the plane in Cincinnati, OH, with the entire remaining portion of the trip home at College Park MD full of tall pop up and matured cumulus. I bought 4 airline tickets home, then several days later, one ticket to Cincinnati, plus the tach time home. A friend did the favor of flying the plane home.

A mechanical issue, alternator diode failure, resulted in an overnight stay, my expense, repair, club expense.

Weather stops outbound, we stayed until better, then continued. That is how you survive flying your own plane, rented, club, or owned outright. At a guess, weather changes in flight plans cost me about 10 days of vacation, and three trips canceled outright. Several side trips were canceled too, but so what?

Fly it like you own it, and be prepared for unexpected changes, time and dollar wise.

Most important, do not make your decisions on dollar cost, that bites in unexpected times and ways.

Not our club, I was the recipient of some free hours in a late model Piper. Paid airline to Daytona Beach, a night in a hotel, and all other expenses to fly it back to College Park MD. There was some additional non cash benefits for me, as I took my wife, and we stopped for 2 days at her sister's home, a little of our route, but the additional cost of a couple of hours of tach time was part of the agreement.

Other times, a friend flew me to our plane at an airport without facilities, and I repaired the minor problem, and flew home. Tach time only, paid by the flying member. We kept a spare wheel and tire for flats, and a set of spare spark plugs for such minor problems.

The club has survived for more than half a century with those basic rules. They may have been modified since I became an Emeritus member, but that is only the last decade.
 
I'm in a non-equity club. Our policy is, you're responsible for bringing the plane back to base. If it breaks while you're out, then you still have to get it back after it's fixed.

Is it fair? Meh. It's a policy. Being in the club is a choice; it has its rules and it is what it is.
 
I would feel kind of obligated to help get the plane back if it broke while I had it, but I wouldn't be very happy coming out of pocket if it wasn't my fault.
 
It is the member's responsibility to return the aircraft. However, there is a possibility of the board authorizing expenses when the aircraft breaks somewhere remote because it's the club's responsibility to maintain the aircraft.

It depends.
 
Not a club but my rental agreement had the following provisions:

Stranded and Abandoned Aircraft
If an aircraft must be left at another airport that is 300 nautical miles or less away from the home base due to unexpected
maintenance discrepancies through no fault of the renter, the aircraft owner/operator is responsible for costs incurred in
returning the aircraft to its home base. The renter is responsible for their own transportation and transportation of any
passengers back to the home bases and the associated costs of this transportation.

If an aircraft is stranded more than 300 nautical miles from home base, or is stranded or abandoned due to weather, illness, or
other personal reasons such as business commitments or family emergencies, or due to maintenance discrepancies that are the
fault of the renter such as a dead battery, burned out starter motor, or damage caused by an accident or negligence, then the
renter pilot is responsible for all costs involved in returning the aircraft to the home base as well as his or her own
transportation and transportation of any passengers back to the home base.​
 
One of the reasons one belongs to a club is to spread expense and financial risk. Club is responsible to get the plane home.
 
Our old club would have just paid for the gas to get it home. The person who originally had it would usually be happy to be the one to get some free flying time bringing it back.
 
Anything agreed to is fair.

Not agreed to, while it is definitely a nice policy for a large club to absorb everything, I think it's fair to charge for the return time regardless of the reason. The pilot was going to put those hours on anyway. Assessment of cause in many cases is going to be inefficient and not worth the time and aggravation.

Additional expenses belongs to the club unless the reason is the pilot's fault, with the burden in the club. Yes, it's inefficient in all but the clearest cases, but it should be.
 
We're an equity club. As I read our bylaws it's treated (mostly) the same as your own airplane breaking down. Getting home is on you. Retrieving it is on you, too. But, if you can't get there (work, travel, etc.) and another member is willing, then the retriever gets a free flight home. If you go get it yourself, the club also eats the cost. Getting someone to the plane is ambiguous - a couple members have their own airplanes, so I assume one of them would step up and provide a ride for the retriever. But. . . We're in NC - if I broke down in CA I'm pretty sure I'd have to go back and get it myself. I can't see the club eating the entire cost for that - that's a lot of hours in 140. I guess there would be a negotiation.
 
We had that situation in Feb, starter was dead. Club member drove up to location and collected the pilot , when plane was repaired a different member drive the pilot back

On both occasions both drivers paid for car gas out of pocket and the club reimbursed them
 
IIRC, our club put the cost of getting the plane back home on the member, but they also got right of first refusal to be the one to fly it home when the time came. I also feel like the club may have covered the cost of another airplane to make the retrieval mission with.

In any case, whatever it was, wasn't a contentious policy.
 
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