Floatplane in "hot water" at Ryder Cup, or not?

Tim, just what kind of objective data determines quality of life? That is one of the goofiest suggestions I've ever heard. I cringe every time I hear a news report that starts with, "A recent study at the University of ______ determined that..." (insert your liberal breeding ground U of choice).
 
Some of the stupidest college towns turned into overflow suburban tract housing for Denverites, complete with thirty or forty identical strip malls with all the standard corporate chain places -- around here, regularly make those "objective" "best places to live" lists.

It's marketing. And it works on a great many.
 
I had the pleasure to live in a city voted best place to live in America twice. It is the best place I suppose if you are a immigrant wanting a free ride but for us folks who grew up their it did nothing to make it better. They came up with some sweet laws like if you are in a group of more than three you are considered a "gang" and would be dealt with. No bicycle riding, skateboarding, rollerblading or any other kind of wheeled units allowed downtown, no congregating in a park without a reservation etc etc. It got quite comical at times trying to do anything there as a youth. I got stopped by the police one time on my bike riding home from the pool with my brother, I was seven at the time, they wanted to see my bicycle license? I had no idea what they were on about and had nothing to say to them since I had no idea about that kind of thing. They decided to let me off with a warning!!!! When we visit my parents who still live there, until they sell their house and move to Montana closer to us. I really get a chuckle out of the newspaper, two fifteen year-old's had a fight at such and such park, no one was seriously injured, at this time it is not known whether it was gang related or not! Oh boy, that really gets me to laughing. It seems everything that happens has to be gang related activity. It is quite cute.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I had the pleasure to live in a city voted best place to live in America twice. It is the best place I suppose if you are a immigrant wanting a free ride but for us folks who grew up their it did nothing to make it better. They came up with some sweet laws like if you are in a group of more than three you are considered a "gang" and would be dealt with. No bicycle riding, skateboarding, rollerblading or any other kind of wheeled units allowed downtown, no congregating in a park without a reservation etc etc. It got quite comical at times trying to do anything there as a youth. I got stopped by the police one time on my bike riding home from the pool with my brother, I was seven at the time, they wanted to see my bicycle license? I had no idea what they were on about and had nothing to say to them since I had no idea about that kind of thing. They decided to let me off with a warning!!!! When we visit my parents who still live there, until they sell their house and move to Montana closer to us. I really get a chuckle out of the newspaper, two fifteen year-old's had a fight at such and such park, no one was seriously injured, at this time it is not known whether it was gang related or not! Oh boy, that really gets me to laughing. It seems everything that happens has to be gang related activity. It is quite cute.
Click to expand...
If a fight between two 15 year olds makes the paper, that seems like a damn fine place to live.
 
"The pilot and passenger are “afoot,” Knight said."
Think he meant on foot. The shuriff talks good, too...

Listen, thank God this wasn't a gyrocopter or we NEVER would have even seen it on radar!



James331 said:
Seaplane troubles, dealt with "it's our lake" types myself, PITA

No TFR or airspace, the FAA doesn't give a hoot, not getting lower than 500' except for T/O or landing, FAA doesn't give a hoot.




It's just a matter of local boating laws, here the best I could find

http://www.chaskamn.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/52

So only violation I could see would be, as long as they stayed in the "boating areas" and the designated anchor areas, would be:

Being over 35HP and over 10kts


Sound like a couple buck yocal ticket type of thing.



Even if the state said it was illegal to land on that lake, it's not the Feds fight, it's state enforcement not FSDO





Local yocal bubba cop sounds like a tool bag, I don't think he is remotely qualified to judge the pilots landing, as reckless, please.

Also why does he let kayaks and canoes go with a warning and forces the aircraft to remain anchored? If she breaks free or has other damage is this yocal cop shop going to cut a check for damages.

Little man needs to off his little hill, his 5 minutes on national fame have expired, go write a Prius a ticket or tell a kid to quit skateboarding or something.
Click to expand...
 
timwinters said:
I lived and worked all across the south for five years or more. Built (about) 6 projects in Louisiana, 4 in Mississippi, 8 in Alabama and too many to count in Georgia.

I'm not adding to any stereotypes...I'm just stating facts. Alabama and Mississippi regularly finish in the last two positions in quality of life polls that use objective criteria. Louisiana isn't too far behind and Georgia is usually in the bottom 10.

Actually, your statement displays your ignorance. Living there, you should be familiar with this data.

Edit: And BTW...I typically had to bring crews in from other states so I could actually finish projects on time. Saying that people down there move in SloMo is an understatement.

2nd Edit: I've also built projects all across OH, MI, WI, MN, & The Dakotas. Great people with a great work ethic all across those states.
Click to expand...

What's ironic with this guy is his love and respect for dogs, but then chooses to insult people from places he despises. Nice.
 
arkvet said:
Tim, just what kind of objective data determines quality of life?
Click to expand...

Things like disposable income (note: disposable), access to healthcare, average education level, recreational opportunities, employment rate, life expectancy, obesity rate, etc.

But, honestly, I don't need a poll, a study, or a survey, I've experienced it personally. Every career I've ever had had involved extensive travel. I really think that you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who's lived in more places in the U.S. than I have. Visited maybe, but not lived. And I've come to the opinion that you can visit all you want, but until you plant your ass there, for weeks or months, you'll never truly understand a region. If you haven't lived all across the U.S. then you have no basis upon which to formulate an opinion. It's just hubris BS. Because..

You...

Don't...

Know...

!!!!!

I've been to (locale followed by type of project or other):

1980's when I was with a big A/E firm:
Irvine, Ca, hotel
La Jolla, Ca, hotel
Humbolt Bay, Ca, hotel
Elgin, IL, hotel
Murphreesboro, TN, hotel
Boise, ID, hotel.

Late 1980's early 90's, when I was with a large General Contractor:
Jefferson City, MO, large office building
Madison, WI, large office building
Chicago, misc displays preparing for numerous trade shows (Bass Pro)

Mid-late 1990's, real estate department for O'Reilly Auto Parts:
Worked all across MO, OK, KS and IA
Had a second office in Houston for 2 years.
Worked all across TX and LA.

Early 2000's, properties department for FedEx:
Lived in NY and the New England States for over a year.
Lived in Arizona for about a year also. (Overlapped with NY & NE)
Maintained a second office in San Jose, CA.
Maintained a second office in Memphis.
Spent a lot of time in Colorado Springs (our redundant IT system was there). It's the most whacked out place I've ever experienced except for the Greenville/Spartanburg area.
Built projects in numerous other locations, too numerous to list. I lived in lots of neat places, but if I had to choose, I enjoyed the central and western Pennsylvania projects and that area the most.

2004 to 2012, my own company, building O'Reilly Auto Parts Stores. Far too many projects and towns to list so I'll only list states:
Texas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
Tennessee
Kentucky
Ohio
Michigan
Wisconsin
Minnesota
South Dakota
Kansas
Missouri
Arkansas
(That's a big freaking circle! And I'm probably forgetting something.)
I was a one man show and ran every project myself...i.e. lived there!

After taking a 4 year break I'm working again this year, and again it's my own company, big box retail:
Steubenville, OH
Zanesville, OH
Kirksville, MO

I don't need polls/surveys/reports/studies to tell me how diverse this country is. I've lived it. You can't say one area is great until you've experience most of 'em.

And, don't think I love Missouri even though I live here. It's a damned good thing Indiana exists or Missouri would consistently be the #1 white, rednck, xenophobic state in the union. (And for the record, I love Indy...it's a great town).
 
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And, BTW, I've probably been arrested in more states than most people have visited! Formerly, at another pilots website, I had my states map...but instead of "states I've landed in" mine was titled "states I've been arrested in."

IIRC, there were 29.

:cool:
 
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Another BTW, it's my experience that, with rare exceptions resulting from local resources (like Maine lobsters, Maryland crab cakes, etc), work ethic and quality of food are inversely proportional.

Some people live to eat.

Some people eat to live.

And most importantly...

Cajuns know how to party like no one else!

Back in the late 90's, I was dubbed an "honorary coon ass" in Eunice, LA because I could (almost) keep up with them being the German catholic boy that I am.

:thumbsup:
 
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timwinters said:
Things like disposable income (note: disposable), access to healthcare, average education level, recreational opportunities, employment rate, life expectancy, obesity rate, etc.

But, honestly, I don't need a poll, a study, or a survey, I've experienced it personally. Every career I've ever had had involved extensive travel. I really think that you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who's lived in more places in the U.S. than I have. Visited maybe, but not lived. And I've come to the opinion that you can visit all you want, but until you plant your ass there, for weeks or months, you'll never truly understand a region. If you haven't lived all across the U.S. then you have no basis upon which to formulate an opinion. It's just hubris BS. Because..

You...

Don't...

Know...

!!!!!

I've been to (locale followed by type of project or other):

1980's when I was with a big A/E firm:
Irvine, Ca, hotel
La Jolla, Ca, hotel
Humbolt Bay, Ca, hotel
Elgin, IL, hotel
Murphreesboro, TN, hotel
Boise, ID, hotel.

Late 1980's early 90's, when I was with a large General Contractor:
Jefferson City, MO, large office building
Madison, WI, large office building
Chicago, misc displays preparing for numerous trade shows (Bass Pro)

Mid-late 1990's, real estate department for O'Reilly Auto Parts:
Worked all across MO, OK, KS and IA
Had a second office in Houston for 2 years.
Worked all across TX and LA.

Early 2000's, properties department for FedEx:
Lived in NY and the New England States for over a year.
Lived in Arizona for about a year also. (Overlapped with NY & NE)
Maintained a second office in San Jose, CA.
Maintained a second office in Memphis.
Spent a lot of time in Colorado Springs (our redundant IT system was there). It's the most whacked out place I've ever experienced except for the Greenville/Spartanburg area.
Built projects in numerous other locations, too numerous to list. I lived in lots of neat places, but if I had to choose, I enjoyed the central and western Pennsylvania projects and that area the most.

2004 to 2012, my own company, building O'Reilly Auto Parts Stores. Far too many projects and towns to list so I'll only list states:
Texas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
Tennessee
Kentucky
Ohio
Michigan
Wisconsin
Minnesota
South Dakota
Kansas
Missouri
Arkansas
(That's a big freaking circle! And I'm probably forgetting something.)
I was a one man show and ran every project myself...i.e. lived there!

After taking a 4 year break I'm working again this year, and again it's my own company, big box retail:
Steubenville, OH
Zanesville, OH
Kirksville, MO

I don't need polls/surveys/reports/studies to tell me how diverse this country is. I've lived it. You can't say one area is great until you've experience most of 'em.

And, don't think I love Missouri even though I live here. It's a damned good thing Indiana exists or Missouri would consistently be the #1 white, rednck, xenophobic state in the union. (And for the record, I love Indy...it's a great town).
Click to expand...

Yawn.

disposable income (note: disposable) - doesn't affect mine.

access to healthcare - never seen anyplace without a hospital and we have aircraft for the rest

average education level - doesn't affect mine. Seriously do not care. Not an education snob. Known plenty of people with better horse sense than Doctors with none.

recreational opportunities - meh. Everyplace has their thing.

employment rate - can be a problem if it's low, but boring places where "everyone works for the college", or "everyone works for the plant", or "everyone works for XYZ government contractor" all have a serious problem too, even when they have high employment... The place will lock step and vote for whatever helps that place or group.

life expectancy - doesn't affect mine

obesity rate - definitely doesn't affect mine, and again, not a judgmental prick. Don't care if the neighbors want to be fat.

Interestingly you didn't list real objective stuff that affects individuals like...

- housing costs
- tax rates
- how annoying/overbearing/stupid local government is (stupid can work to your advantage depending on the first two)
- number of humans per square foot
 
It's alright . . . Haters gonna hate. Guess love is reserved for animals that he owns.

I'm living in Town #22, State #8, have lived overseas twice and visited 15-18 other countries and 47 states (I forget, need to check my list). It's not as black and white as you make it appear, and there is great variation across a single state as well as in a single spot over time because things change.

This is my second time in Alabama, and I'm enjoying it. So far, I have yet to see an "objective quality of life" survey throw significant negative points for feet of annual snowfall or weeks of below-freezing high temperatures. But more power to them, there'll be less crowding down here while they pursue quality of life, reduced personal freedom and increased tax burdens across the upper Midwest and New
England . . . . Yes, I've tried living in the land of snow and ice, and couldn't get out of central Ohio fast enough.
 
timwinters said:
And, BTW, I've probably been arrested in more states than most people have visited! Formerly, at another pilots website, I had my states map...but instead of "states I've landed in" mine was titled "states I've been arrested in."

IIRC, there were 29.

:cool:
Click to expand...

Yeah that's really something to boast about.
 
Hank S said:
there'll be less crowding down here while they pursue quality of life, reduced personal freedom and increased tax burdens .
Click to expand...

Yep, when someone knocks Alabama I'll say "so, guess you won't be moving here then", "hell no" they say, and then I respond "good".

BTW my roots are in NJ but Dad was career military and then I was too, so I moved a lot, West, North, Midwest, South, and overseas. Worse was 3 different high schools in NJ.
 
mscard88 said:
Yep, when someone knocks Alabama I'll say "so, guess you won't be moving here then", "hell no" they say, and then I respond "good".

BTW my roots are in NJ but Dad was career military and then I was too, so I moved a lot, West, North, Midwest, South, and overseas. Worse was 3 different high schools in NJ.
Click to expand...

Yep, I did three elementary, two junior highs and three high schools, courtesy of the United States Marine Corps. Hoo-rah! The best of the brats . . . But still, college was only Town #12 and State #5, with one tour Overseas.

Been there, done that, sampled most but only short visits out West (Arizona is an oven in the summer; from northern AZ up into Canada is a freezer for months in winter, and none of it gets much rain (little green, much dirt, dust and fires)). I know what I like, 'cause I've tried the others, I'm just not as arrogant and hateful about it as some others here, who are welcome to the dusty, the brown, the dry and the frozen.
 
Hank S said:
This is my second time in Alabama, and I'm enjoying it. So far, I have yet to see an "objective quality of life" survey throw significant negative points for feet of annual snowfall or weeks of below-freezing high temperatures.
Click to expand...

Actually, yeah, a lot of them do. They include "climate" and things like how many "comfortable days" per year an area has.

And many people, including me, would rather live in an area that includes a couple of months of snow on the ground than live in an area where the atmosphere resembles the inside of a sweaty work boot for 4 to 6 months each year. I love working outside but I just can't do it when the temps are above 90. I love it when the temps are 20.

If you love the heat then great. Some of us can't stand it...leaves more room for you down there! It's just another case of "to each his/her own." Just don't call it "hating" when people simply say what they like and don't.

My place is in Missouri is on the market. When it sells, I'm moving farther north...not farther south.
 
Which is what's beautiful about the country, if you like it hot, we got a place for that, like the snowy tundra, got a place for that, mountains, below SL, you name it.


BTW, how the heck did we get this far off topic, this is impressive even for POA ;)
 
Sorry to bring this thread back toward its original topic, which I know is frowned upon around here, but I found this regulation from the MN DOT, expressly listing Hazeltine Lake as being open for seaplane operations: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=8800.2800 I still haven't found any follow-up news articles.
 
I wonder if the police chief will issue a statement retracting the pilots actions as imbecilic and stupid?

Even so far, with no TFR listed, and the lake listed as open, I don't think his actions were imbecilic or stupid; he saw what appeared to be an opportunity to land in a lake next to the cup and spectate for a little while.

The chief's unfair categorization hurts GA by leading the public into believing the pilot hadn't done his due diligence and was blindly just flying around the sky, landing wherever, potentially putting lives in danger.
 
What did I tell you. Those are Minnesota STATE rules permitting Seaplane ops. And they are claiming a violation of a CITY rule prohibiting it. Told you it's all about JURISDICTION! And CONFLICTING jurisdiction. 10 to 1 the city doesn't know how to issue a proper violation summons probably because they have never done it before. This one is most likely winable by the Seaplane operator based on all this mishmash of jurisdiction...if it comes to a fight....which it shouldnt. If it comes to it, fight for juridiction in State court. State allows it, city temporarily prohibits it. Sheesh what a mess...
 
James331 said:
Which is what's beautiful about the country, if you like it hot, we got a place for that, like the snowy tundra, got a place for that, mountains, below SL, you name it.


BTW, how the heck did we get this far off topic, this is impressive even for POA ;)
Click to expand...
This thread seems to have jumped the shark.
 
denverpilot said:
Some of the stupidest college towns turned into overflow suburban tract housing for Denverites, complete with thirty or forty identical strip malls with all the standard corporate chain places -- around here, regularly make those "objective" "best places to live" lists.

It's marketing. And it works on a great many.
Click to expand...

Well said


denverpilot said:
...Interestingly you didn't list real objective stuff that affects individuals like...

- housing costs
- tax rates
- how annoying/overbearing/stupid local government is (stupid can work to your advantage depending on the first two)
- number of humans per square foot
Click to expand...

Bingo

However the items you list do lend themselves into having more disposable income :)
 
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StevieTimes said:
I wonder if the police chief will issue a statement retracting the pilots actions as imbecilic and stupid?

Even so far, with no TFR listed, and the lake listed as open, I don't think his actions were imbecilic or stupid; he saw what appeared to be an opportunity to land in a lake next to the cup and spectate for a little while.

The chief's unfair categorization hurts GA by leading the public into believing the pilot hadn't done his due diligence and was blindly just flying around the sky, landing wherever, potentially putting lives in danger.
Click to expand...

I doubt that tool bag has even admitted he was wrong, you don't go making statements like that to the press, about aviation, something you know nothing about, by being the type of person who has a ounce of humility, or for that matter sense.

Betcha super trooper was bragging all over his personal Facebook about how he stopped the evil airplane who might have be the next 9/11 lol
 
The question is. Where does the city get the power to make landing on a lake illegal when state law allows it.
 
coloradobluesky said:
The question is. Where does the city get the power to make landing on a lake illegal when state law allows it.
Click to expand...

The lake is inside the Chaska city limits. Why wouldn't they have the power to control it? They passed the ordinance on Aug 1, it was published in the Chaska Herald (presumably their publication of record...or whatever that's technically called) and it was also published on their city website.

Sure, they should've issued a NOTAM but most "normal" people have no idea what a NOTAM is.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and I think the pilot was squarely at fault here. Especially since the plane was registered to a guy who lived within 2 miles of the lake and the pilot flying it lives less than 10 miles away. It's not like they flew in from Wisconsin....
 
coloradobluesky said:
The question is. Where does the city get the power to make landing on a lake illegal when state law allows it.
Click to expand...

Well look at the chief

31431135.sf.jpg


When you wear more gold stars and regalia than General Patton, guess you just make the laws up as you go along.




As far as your question, you should ask them

https://m.facebook.com/ChaskaPoliceDepartment/


timwinters said:
...they should've issued a NOTAM ...

...Ignorance of the law is no excuse...
Click to expand...

Fixed it for ya :)
 
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timwinters said:
The lake is inside the Chaska city limits. Why wouldn't they have the power to control it? They passed the ordinance on Aug 1, it was published in the Chaska Herald (presumably their publication of record...or whatever that's technically called) and it was also published on their city website.

Sure, they should've issued a NOTAM but most "normal" people have no idea what a NOTAM is.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and I think the pilot was squarely at fault here. Especially since the plane was registered to a guy who lived within 2 miles of the lake and the pilot flying it lives less than 10 miles away. It's not like they flew in from Wisconsin....
Click to expand...
In Minnesota, does a municipality have jurisdiction to prohibit landing on a lake that, under state law, is public waters and explicitly open to seaplanes? I keep hoping that someone knowledgeable about Minnesota water law will chime in to tell us if the courts there have decided the issue, but the default conclusion is typically that state laws preempt local ordinances.

I have tried to find something from Minnesota's numerous state-run websites about public use of its lakes (nearly outnumbering the 10,000 lakes themselves, which I did learn in the process is a low count as at least one state website had a number in the 11,000s) but found nothing about local municipalities having the authority to close public waters. That doesn't mean Chaska lacks jurisdiction over the lake, it just means that Minnesota isn't doing a very good job of communicating the answer to people who go there to visit.

I agree that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but the conclusion I reach from that belief differs from yours. The city government's ignorance of federal law is no excuse for not having requested that a TFR and a NOTAM to be issued for the event.
 
This is exactly why U.S. Airspace is regulated by the Federal government, otherwise how many places would you have to check before making a flight anywhere? Has anyone in this board routinely checked local laws at their destination as part of pre-flight planning? Cities cannot regulate where you can and cannot fly, it would destroy aviation with a god-awful patchwork of laws.
 
Hank S said:
This is exactly why U.S. Airspace is regulated by the Federal government, otherwise how many places would you have to check before making a flight anywhere? Has anyone in this board routinely checked local laws at their destination as part of pre-flight planning? Cities cannot regulate where you can and cannot fly, it would destroy aviation with a god-awful patchwork of laws.
Click to expand...

Which is true, but water has all of those patchwork laws and he landed on it. ;)

Chief bald bullet head there seems like quite the piece of work. He gets the nickname henceforth of Chief Putz.

The terrorists are coming for your golf balls.
 
A city does not have the right to, for instance, make burglary a capital crime. In order for a city to have the power to pass a law that overides a state law, they have to have that right, by law. It's not automatic.

Just because the lake appears inside the city boundries doesnt necessarily mean it is in the city. It may have NEVER been officially annexed. Cities annex subdivisions and often neglet to annex lakes. Sort of an oversight. A good lawyer will find out and use that if he can.
 
iamtheari said:
I agree that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but the conclusion I reach from that belief differs from yours. The city government's ignorance of federal law is no excuse for not having requested that a TFR and a NOTAM to be issued for the event.
Click to expand...

Especially since an FAA official was part of the Ryder cup security team (monitoring local air traffic via radar according to the article.)

Why didn't the local law enforcement consult the FAA official before the event? They could have easily issued a NOTAM.

TJ



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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