Flightaware - How does it work?

Anthony

Anthony

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Anthony
I flew the Tiger back to its home base (after almost a six year hiatus) from Lexington, KY to Pottstown, PA yesterday. Very nice three hour flight with some bumps, but nothing too brutal. I went VFR and I DID NOT file a flightplan. I know, that is very, very risky in and of itself. :rolleyes2:
I did receive Flight Following the entire trip and was handed off without any gaps.

My question is, does Flightaware use flightplans or ATC or both. My guess is both, but just wondering, because I have been told differently in the past.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N28641

For some reason they have me detouring down to Georgia, but I can attest that my route of flight did not include this deviation. The detour seems to begin at the VOR I used to avoid the ADIZ/P40 nonsense, as I flew direct to the St. Thomas VOR (THS) then direct to my destination, N47.
 
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FlightAware uses the center host computer data (the mainframe ATC computers) to display position and altitude as a function of time in both textual and graphical format.
 
It's interesting it recorded my student's flight under Flight Following the other day but not our air file last night.
 
KennyFlys said:
It's interesting it recorded my student's flight under Flight Following the other day but not our air file last night.
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Did you just file or did you get FF after filing?
 
Nice detour there. Trying to sneak over to the Masters?

I have heard large jumps in the plot like that may be from other aircraft that were assigned the same transponder code as you in a different center region. Sometimes the FA computer gets the data points mixed up.
 
KennyFlys said:
It's interesting it recorded my student's flight under Flight Following the other day but not our air file last night.
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It depends how the VFR FF was entered into the computer. If the controller did it via the FDIO and it actually went into the NAS, FA gets position and altitude updates. If assigned a beacon code from the VFR squawk bank for the particular facility, nothing will show up (it's completely internal with respect to the facility you're working with).
 
rpadula said:
Nice detour there. Trying to sneak over to the Masters?

I have heard large jumps in the plot like that may be from other aircraft that were assigned the same transponder code as you in a different center region. Sometimes the FA computer gets the data points mixed up.
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LOL! Yeah Rich, I got down to Augusta and back up to PA in three hours. Now that you mention it, ATC made me change my transponder code three times as they said they were having a problem with their system. That must have been the reason for the change in route on Flightaware.

Maybe I should have just gone to the Masters. :D
 
rpadula said:
I have heard large jumps in the plot like that may be from other aircraft that were assigned the same transponder code as you in a different center region. Sometimes the FA computer gets the data points mixed up.
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In my experience FA can get confused when you're told to change your transponder code. This may be a different facet of the same problem: One reason you may be assigned a new code is because another aircraft in another Center has the same code and you're both about to be in the same Center. That's an ATC computer no-no.
 
Joe B said:
In my experience FA can get confused when you're told to change your transponder code. This may be a different facet of the same problem: One reason you may be assigned a new code is because another aircraft in another Center has the same code and you're both about to be in the same Center. That's an ATC computer no-no.
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It could also be that in the process of one of Anthony's code changes, he just happened to be passing through someone else's squawk code as the radar hit him.
 
FA is finicky as to which VFR Flights it picks up. I used to think that it was just the ones that used Center radar (as opposed to approach radar), but we flew from IAH to IWS with Approach the entire way and that got picked up. Then again, I flew four flights this weekend (HOU-AUS, AUS-BMQ, BMQ-AUS, AUS-HOU), and only the HOU-AUS and AUS-BMQ flights are on FA, even though I was on flight following with all of them.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7433A
 
Anthony said:
I went VFR and I DID NOT file a flightplan. I know, that is very, very risky in and of itself. :rolleyes2:
I did receive Flight Following the entire trip and was handed off without any gaps.
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Anthony, not sure why it would be risky? You used FF which kept in the system w/ a code in real time. Maybe if you were out in the middle of no where were there was no Radar service (reference Steve Fossit) but I see no issues here.

Does anybody file VFR flightplans except for Student pilot training?
 
CT Arrow said:
Anthony, not sure why it would be risky? You used FF which kept in the system w/ a code in real time. Maybe if you were out in the middle of no where were there was no Radar service (reference Steve Fossit) but I see no issues here.

Does anybody file VFR flightplans except for Student pilot training?
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I filed VFR flight plans for my trips between HOU and AUS this weekend, and I got flight following. I look at it as an additional redundancy, and it's cheap insurance. For the cost of a couple of minutes of my time, the CAP knows exactly where to start looking for me. Does it really help? I don't know... but it gives me a little extra peace of mind, so therefore it's worth it in my book.
 
CT Arrow said:
Anthony, not sure why it would be risky? You used FF which kept in the system w/ a code in real time. Maybe if you were out in the middle of no where were there was no Radar service (reference Steve Fossit) but I see no issues here.

Does anybody file VFR flightplans except for Student pilot training?
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Andy. I was just being facetious. You know the reporters who always say "no flight plan was filed" after an accident. To be honest, this may be a time when a VFR flighplan would be advisable. I was over some rough terrain, some people call them mountains, but they are just really ridges, but very sparsely populated ridges. You're right though, I was talking to ATC the entire trip and if something happened I would have told them right away.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
FA is finicky as to which VFR Flights it picks up. I used to think that it was just the ones that used Center radar (as opposed to approach radar), but we flew from IAH to IWS with Approach the entire way and that got picked up. Then again, I flew four flights this weekend (HOU-AUS, AUS-BMQ, BMQ-AUS, AUS-HOU), and only the HOU-AUS and AUS-BMQ flights are on FA, even though I was on flight following with all of them.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7433A
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I think it has more to do with how the ATC controller(s) enter your flight into the computer than any finicky aspect of flight aware. AFaIK when you call for flight following the controller has a couple choices WRT how they get a squawk code and one of those puts your flight into the national system and the other keeps it local. I suspect that the local option is easier and if so what you get is possibly dependent on how busy things are as well as whether or not your flight is expected to terminate within the same area or not. Chances are you can enhance your chances of getting on FlightAware by giving the controller your destination on the initial callup, e.g. "Minneapolis Center, N1234 over Halfway VOR at four thousand five hundred, request flight following to Lincoln Nebraska". I suppose you could even "cheat" by specifying a destination beyond your intended landing that's clearly into another center's airspace and then amending your destination once you get a code.
 
gismo said:
Chances are you can enhance your chances of getting on FlightAware by giving the controller your destination on the initial callup, e.g. "Minneapolis Center, N1234 over Halfway VOR at four thousand five hundred, request flight following to Lincoln Nebraska".
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I do this all the time. ("Minneapolis Center, Zodiac 55ZC is just off Fairmont, direct Eau Claire enroute to RRL, climbing through 2600 for 7500, request flight following.") It's still hit or miss whether I get into Flightaware. It does usually mean that I get a non-local transponder code. (I believe that a VFR code of 02xx is local, as is an IFR code of 04xx...but that's based on experience and listening, and I could easily be wrong.) In fact, the last flight I took with Paul, home from Princeton, MN (KPNM), was the first time in a while I've gotten a local code and then switched. Paul hadn't heard that before, and commented on it.
 
CT Arrow said:
Does anybody file VFR flightplans except for Student pilot training?
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Filed for my trip to Myrtle Beach Saturday and back yesterday as well as using flight following. My son thought it was kind of cool to see me listed on the board at Ramp66 at Grand Strand when he came to pick us up.
 
EppyGA said:
Filed for my trip to Myrtle Beach Saturday and back yesterday as well as using flight following. My son thought it was kind of cool to see me listed on the board at Ramp66 at Grand Strand when he came to pick us up.
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I can't remember the last time I filed a VFR flight plan. I almost always file IFR on any flight longer than half an hour and I carry a GPS-PLB to improve my SAR chances.
 
gismo said:
I can't remember the last time I filed a VFR flight plan. I almost always file IFR on any flight longer than half an hour and I carry a GPS-PLB to improve my SAR chances.
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I probably should have qualified my statement with the fact that I don't have my IR (yet), and if I did, I probably would file IFR for the flights that I file VFR for now.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
FA is finicky as to which VFR Flights it picks up. I used to think that it was just the ones that used Center radar (as opposed to approach radar), but we flew from IAH to IWS with Approach the entire way and that got picked up.
Click to expand...

I think maybe the different varieties of TRACON radar are integrated into the system differently. If you click on "track log" on FlightAware there's a column that shows what facility each radar "hit" came from. All the Centers show up of course, but some TRACONs do too. Madison, for example, does not ever show up in the track log, but Houston does. So I think that has something to do with it. :yes:

gismo said:
I think it has more to do with how the ATC controller(s) enter your flight into the computer than any finicky aspect of flight aware.
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Yeah, FA just displays what the FAA sends them.

I suppose you could even "cheat" by specifying a destination beyond your intended landing that's clearly into another center's airspace and then amending your destination once you get a code.
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Hmmm... Interesting idea, I'll have to try that. :D

jmaynard said:
It does usually mean that I get a non-local transponder code. (I believe that a VFR code of 02xx is local, as is an IFR code of 04xx...but that's based on experience and listening, and I could easily be wrong.)
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No, they're different at every facility. Madison uses 04xx for VFR and 01xx for local IFR. I've heard some others that didn't start with 0's as well. If Jason Herman wasn't on spring break, I'm sure he'd have clarified all of this for us by now. :yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think maybe the different varieties of TRACON radar are integrated into the system differently. If you click on "track log" on FlightAware there's a column that shows what facility each radar "hit" came from. All the Centers show up of course, but some TRACONs do too. Madison, for example, does not ever show up in the track log, but Houston does. So I think that has something to do with it. :yes:

No, they're different at every facility. Madison uses 04xx for VFR and 01xx for local IFR. I've heard some others that didn't start with 0's as well. If Jason Herman wasn't on spring break, I'm sure he'd have clarified all of this for us by now. :yes:
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Haha! I am indeed on spring break. Key West is gorgeous today!

Anyhow, back on topic. It really has more to do with how the controller inputs your information into their equipment than it does the facility's radar type. If they enter it into the FDIO (like IFR), all of your data goes into the NAS (aircraft type, departure, destination, cruising, etc), IOW all of your flight plan data goes through the ARTCC host computer. If they don't (short on time) then they will likely just issue you a code in the VFR code bank (which usually starts with a 0, but the bank is by facility directive) and your information can only be viewed intrafacility. When the controller goes to hand you off to another facility (squawking a code in the VFR bank), the controller has to perform a manual handoff by calling the next sector on the landline since automatic handoffs are difficult to push through with no data showing up on the receiving controller's scope.

The key commands to accomplish flight plan input depend on the equipment being used (ARTS III, ACD, R-ACD, STARS). Different facilities have different procedures for issuing squawk codes to VFR aircraft. At HPN, facility directive changed a year or two ago and now the FD controllers enter VFR's through the FDIO, so we can usually find our track on FlightAware after we land. In fact, just about every time Gil and I fly he gets a text message a minute or two after we shutdown. I always guess it's FlightAware telling us that we landed. I haven't been wrong yet! :D

Here's some more info on the FDIO.

Hope this helps,
Jason
 
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Thanks for the info Jason. That's great. Recently, I shocked a friend of mine by calling him a few minutes after he landed in his Bonanza. I said, how was it at 7,500 ft? He was speechless. Then I showed him flightaware and he couldn't believe that info was available to just anyone. Mumbled something about big brother.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Anyhow, back on topic. It really has more to do with how the controller inputs your information into their equipment than it does the facility's radar type. If they enter it into the FDIO (like IFR), all of your data goes into the NAS (aircraft type, departure, destination, cruising, etc), IOW all of your flight plan data goes through the ARTCC host computer. If they don't (short on time) then they will likely just issue you a code in the VFR code bank (which usually starts with a 0, but the bank is by facility directive) and your information can only be viewed intrafacility. When the controller goes to hand you off to another facility (squawking a code in the VFR bank), the controller has to perform a manual handoff by calling the next sector on the landline since automatic handoffs are difficult to push through with no data showing up on the receiving controller's scope.

Hope this helps,
Jason
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Had a great example of your explanation on Saturday. I left 19A, got in the air and opened my flight plane. Then I dialed up ATL approach and asked for FF. They gave me a 0xxx code. Just prior to handing me off to Greer approach he gave me a new code. Looking at the tracking from Flight Aware you can see right where he gave me the new code.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N721TT/history/20090411/1836Z/19A/KCRE
 
Safe travels! See ya at SNF or Adams's Shindig :)

Andy
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Hah! We did pass by there the other night. Heading back to my dad's place in Delray Beach today though. It was a nice little getaway.
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Dang, we just missed you down there! We overnighted on Tuesday in Sarasota (heard they lost power on Duval that night) and got to Key West Wednesday at noon.
 
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