Flight Simulators

Janel

Janel

Filing Flight Plan
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I thinking of getting a flight simulator at home. Don't want to spend more than I need to.

Is a whole setup worth it? A whole set up being the screen, yoke, and pedals.

Which programs work best and don't break the bank? Does the simulator include talking with the tower?

Thanks!!
 
Janel said:
I thinking of getting a flight simulator at home. Don't want to spend more than I need to.

Is a whole setup worth it? A whole set up being the screen, yoke, and pedals.

Which programs work best and don't break the bank? Does the simulator include talking with the tower?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
You're new doing Private, right? All the pedals and yoke stuff isn't worth it. You gotta 'feel the plane.'
 
Janel said:
I thinking of getting a flight simulator at home. Don't want to spend more than I need to.

Is a whole setup worth it? A whole set up being the screen, yoke, and pedals.

Which programs work best and don't break the bank? Does the simulator include talking with the tower?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Hi.
A MSFSX Gold, 40 in. 4K-TV/ Monitor, CH Pro Pedals, Logitech Extreme 3D pro, or something with at least 10 buttons, 14 will work better.
An external Tablet for Moving map and Plates.. like Avare via WiFi, and you will have everything you need for quite a while.
There is a internet version of the FSX but I see no need for it, unless you cannot get the Gold somewhere.
 
Shoot just go fly the real deal. The plane the plane!

IMG_3131.JPG
 
Yeah, what he said.

Except.

I found the flight simulator very useful when trying to learn to fly on instruments. A sim won't help you much (IMHO) until you start on your instrument rating.
 
And I found MS FS useful for getting the radio calls and sequence when I had limited experience with controlled airspace. Also, IFR and real weather was useful.

Actual VFR, not so much -- but when the weather was horrible in the real world, I cranked up good weather in Hawaii and flew a J3 Cub to Hana to Lindbergh's home and burial site.
 
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For not breaking the bank, you can't get much cheaper than free: http://www.flightgear.org/

In the commercial realm, I'm primarily an X-Plane user these days. Once you buy some planes and various add-ons, it can get kind of pricey, but I enjoy it. There's a free demo available of X-Plane, so take a look at their site and maybe download it and check it out. You'd generally need a decent computer if you want to crank up the visuals.

The built-in ATC in X-Plane is horrible (supposedly being re-written), so I've been using an add-on called Pilot2ATC. It allows you to verbally talk into a mic to ATC in order to get clearances and take off, etc... The next level above that would be something like Vatsim or PilotEdge, where you're actually talking to another human who acts as a controller.

Really, I think you can spend as much or as little as you want on the hobby. For example, if you were looking to break the bank, then this would be the yoke for you (maybe Santa will bring it to me for Christmas): https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-yoke/

X-Plane: http://www.x-plane.com/
X-Plane Community Forum: http://forums.x-plane.org/
X-Plane Commercial Addons: http://store.x-plane.org/
Pilot2Atc: http://pilot2atc.com/
124th ATC: http://124thatc.matacchieri.eu/
Logitech Yoke and Throttle: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Saitek-Flight-Yoke-System/dp/B01M00OQBE/
Logitech Rudder Pedals: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-PRO-Flight-Rudder-Pedals/dp/B01LYPMTPT/
CH Pedals: https://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Pedals-Simulator-300-111/dp/B0000512IE
CH Yoke: https://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Flight-Yoke-200-615/dp/B000056SPM/
 
Hey, challenged... you seem to have some experience with this.

I have (had, took it apart to "fix" it) the eclipse yoke. It's fine, but I can't get x-plane to dial back the sensitivity as much as I want. I took the yoke apart to see how hard it would be to build something that would let me reduce the sensitivity before the data gets to the computer.

I googled and found lots of people complaining about the sensitivity in pitch in x-plane and the developer's insistence that "that's just the way the real plane is". Well. I own both the Mooney carenado model and a real Mooney 201 (1981) and they're full of crap. :)

Any suggestions here? If there's a better yoke with pitch sensitivity controls in the hardware, I'm all for it. If there's a magic setting in x-plane that'll do what I want, I'll try that. I have tried the obvious control curves, but they don't help nearly enough.
 
I know this is a common sort of complaint with the less expensive yokes (my Saitek is way too springy), but so far, I have just dealt with it as is. I actually like to fly VFR in the sim so it definitely is an issue for me, where I think a lot of people are flying using the autopilot so it doesn't matter as much to them. I'm very tempted to purchase the Brunner yoke, which has force feedback, but it's a massive amount of money for something that I'm just using for occasional enjoyment. I'm not sure if there are any additional add-ons that might provide further sensitivity customization.
 
***Mods, let's create a Flight Sim forum on POA***

Having a sim was a huge benefit to my training and if used properly and understanding its limitations can be invaluable. The two resources I used to build my sim was largely eBay and www.DesktopAviator.com.

For a yoke, you can apparently trick out a Saitek or CH yoke to be more realistic but I just waited on eBay until a Precision Flight Control (PFC) yoke came available. Everything else is GoFlight for my radio stack. I have a Saitek TPM and pedals. No they are not 100% but that's not really what I was going for.

For my primary training, after a lesson, I would head home, fire up the sim and fly the lesson 2 or 3 times to really ingrain procedures and become more comfortable with what to expect. Is the sight picture or the feel the same? Of course not, but that's not always the point. Like I said, it's all about knowing that it's a training supplement and not a training replacement.

If you are shaky on radio and VFR procedure work, I'd also suggest going through the PilotEdge.net VFR courses. Your radio work will improve dramatically because you're working with real controllers while still managing your fake airplane. You begin to learn how to handle both. IFR is even more beneficial but don't get ahead of yourself. I don't recommend self-taught IFR work in a home sim unless again it's a supplement to your training.

I estimate my flight sim saved me a couple thousand bucks in training costs. (that's the only way I could justify it to me wife...) Plus now, I have a fantastic in-home device for keeping my pilot brain sharp.
 
Truly, the only thing a desktop sim is good for is instrument training.

FSX is the best as far as latest and greatest, but it takes a powerful computer with a proper graphics card....to run it correctly.
 
I enjoyed the sim for learning.
It will never equal the experience of flying, but it can be a great learning tool if used properly.
My recommendation if wanting to stay fairly inexpensive:
X-Plane 11
Vatsim (free)
Saitek foot pedals
CH Yoke
Joystick if interested.

Get the best graphics card you can afford. No less than a Geforce 1070 in my opinion.

There are a LOT higher end yokes and pedals, and other add ons (trim wheels etc) if you want to do it up.
 
Usually these threads end up with something on the order of "sims are okay" and don't bother with the pedals since none of them give the response an actual airplane will give you.

Oh, and they are fun.
 
Ravioli said:
don't bother with the pedals since none of them give the response an actual airplane will give you.
Click to expand...

For $100, I got 'em just to make taxing easier. Also, on the carenado mooney, applying full power on take off requires rudder from somewhere to counteract the yawing. I guess you could do that with the keyboard, but...
 
Janel said:
I thinking of getting a flight simulator at home. Don't want to spend more than I need to.

Is a whole setup worth it? A whole set up being the screen, yoke, and pedals.

Which programs work best and don't break the bank? Does the simulator include talking with the tower?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
As others said, simulator for private training is not great ... unless you invest a lot of money into a lot of useful HW that can emulate the airplane a lot better than a simple joystick and one LCD.

Communications with tower are not "included" but FSX (and P3D now) allow network connectivity which gives you options. You can fly with friends and communicate or you can log into let's say Vatsim and use their simulated amateur controllers to practice your radio work. Or you can even pay for professional simulated ATC (though location limited) which are at professional level.

A simulator is a tool. How you use it is up to you (and hopefully your CFI). If used right, you will definitely benefit from it.
You have a lot of flexibility with a simulator, including weather (crosswinds, clouds, night time), airplanes (high-wing, low-wing, high-perf, complex), emergencies, safety, flight state (save on short final and reload to practice flaring, every 60 seconds) and more.
 
Janel said:
I thinking of getting a flight simulator at home. Don't want to spend more than I need to.

Is a whole setup worth it? A whole set up being the screen, yoke, and pedals.

Which programs work best and don't break the bank? Does the simulator include talking with the tower?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

I'm using X-Plane and the Saitek yoke, rudder pedals, and throttle quadrant. I connect HDMI to my big screen...it's almost like being there.

I'm a student going for Sport Pilot and find the sim helpful as a form of 'chair flying'. It helps me build some muscle memory, get used to making radio calls, and getting some bit of sensitivity on the rudder pedals on the ground.

What I don't like is that there are no good sims for the Skycatcher; the only one I can find has a different electronics packet. I wind up flying the C172 but it's close enough to help. I'm running it on a Dell laptop with OK graphics and it flies pretty good. The graphics are pretty good and hold up on my laptop. Obviously more $$ = better hardware = better performance. If you just want to get used to the process of flight, then you can skimp on the graphics quality and get better run time performance.0

Is it worth it? No clue. I've been flying sims since FS 1 in DOS...yeah, I'm that old...first program written on an IBM 360 using punch cards...(side note, my first computer game was Star Trek on the 360 using a Time Sharing Terminal that was an IBM Selectric typewriter) it's something I enjoy and the addition of the flight hardware just makes it better/more fun.
 
I hate sims!

CRJ-200-FFS-4.jpg
 
I agree with all the comments about it being valuable for IFR training. When I was learning to fly (around Y2K) I stopped using the FS while I was doing pattern work and learning to land. I did not think it was at all useful for that stage. When the cross countries started, I used it to learn VOR navigiantion. I used to setup a flight on the autopilot and periodically tune VORs and find the location on a paper sectional. I thought it had some value at that stage. I have the CH yoke and peddles. I liked having the peddles but I thought a better quality joy stick would have been a smarter purchase than the CH yoke.
 
Hi.
While most are correct that the sims are best used for the IFR / IMC if you get the proper configuration, good Photo scenery, choose a proper Zoom view out the window, and the proper aircraft model the MSFSX can be useful for VFR / Pattern work also. XPlane not as much due to some limitations in the Forward distance, limited to about 40SM, or less and a very poor behavior of the light GAs in a cross wind / on the ground. The 172 that comes with the release version also has some side view problems where you cannot see the wingtips if you set the forward view to see part of the top cowl and forward position to what you would expect in a real airplane.
In MSFSX, and it's successors, you can easily create Photo scenery, set the view to unlimited and very easily recognize mountain peaks / terrain references. Having a limit of 30-40 can present a totally different picture that what you a re used to see out the window. Some will say that is it is not a limitation, because you can only see about 30SM in most days. I can tell you for a fact that is BS, especially when you are in true VFR / VMC conditions.
Having a good size monitor, proper controllers set up correctly and a good flight model can be a very very helpful in most conditions except the actual landings, and even there there are points that can be helpful. One basic problem with the AI, in the steam version is that it shows a very high attitude / pitch which can lead to trouble when transferred to real world. Keep your AI at or below 12 degrees, and accept the airspeed and you will not have to deal with it in the real flight.
 
Small time sims are great for learning procedural stuff, such as IFR procedures, but useless for PPL type procedures. You're better off sitting in a parked airplane and rehearsing procedures doing dry cockpit time for PPL stuff.

Now, when some of us here "sim", we think a real sim. That's a different story entirely.
 
Ryanb said:
I’ve always wanted to put one of those in my garage.
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They are roughly $20mil

But, I received five type ratings in them without ever flying the airplane. I was PIC in the jet the first time I flew the airplane.
 
Kritchlow said:
They are roughly $20mil

But, I received five type ratings in them without ever flying the airplane. I was PIC in the jet the first time I flew the airplane.
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That’s amazing. Hard to believe they can replicate the real airplane so closely. I’d enjoy just being able to play with one for an hour or so.
 
Ryanb said:
That’s amazing. Hard to believe they can replicate the real airplane so closely. I’d enjoy just being able to play with one for an hour or so.
Click to expand...
Yup. Very realistic.
More important imo is that we can do actual V1 cuts and other emergencies for real. The sim can be set for ANY AND ALL possible conditions. We get cat 3B certified to land 300rvr in the sim. They can simulate anything... snow on runway, wind shear, you name it.

Also make no mistake. The sim is an exact replica of the cockpit.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yup. Very realistic.
More important imo is that we can do actual V1 cuts and other emergencies for real. The sim can be set for ANY AND ALL possible conditions. We get cat 3B certified to land 300rvr in the sim. They can simulate anything... snow on runway, wind shear, you name it.

Also make no mistake. The sim is an exact replica of the cockpit.
Click to expand...
Amazing!
 
Ryanb said:
Amazing!
Click to expand...
Yup. It's the type of sim that mscard88 posted a pic of.
Visuals are also top notch... including ground personnel and tug walking from aircraft after pushback.
 
For me, the only things that were really useful during PPL training were emergency procedures and simulated instrument. For the IR, it was invaluable
 
A simulator is not useless for VFR flying. Aircraft flight characteristics, including subtle ones, that experienced pilots take for granted, can be experienced in a simulator. Pitch/power relationship, aircraft response to throttle and configuration changes, glide performance, etc. There are other areas where it can be valuable, but I'm not going to enumerate every single one, you just have to have some imagination.
 
Skyrys62 said:
I enjoyed the sim for learning.
It will never equal the experience of flying, but it can be a great learning tool if used properly.
My recommendation if wanting to stay fairly inexpensive:
X-Plane 11
Vatsim (free)
Saitek foot pedals
CH Yoke
Joystick if interested.

Get the best graphics card you can afford. No less than a Geforce 1070 in my opinion.

There are a LOT higher end yokes and pedals, and other add ons (trim wheels etc) if you want to do it up.
Click to expand...
Kinda concur with this; I dropped MS FSX recently, as the approach plates were just way, way too out of date, and Jeppesen doesn't publish them anymore for FSX. Anyway, I bought Xplane11, and have the cheap CH yoke and pedals; I use it mostly for IFR sim, and it's a definite step up from FSX. And it'll "talk" to FF on my iPad, though I haven't set that up yet.

The "built in" GPS on the 172 is basically a G-530, which correlatives with our real airplane. The CH yoke has no real feedback, just spring resistance, so the stick-and-rudder isn't all that realistic, but for IFR, it's not that important. Just having the instrument scan and approach practice is very valuable.
 
Sundancer said:
... as the approach plates were just way, way too out of date, .. And it'll "talk" to FF on my iPad, though I haven't set that up yet.
Click to expand...
MSFSX will interface to any Anadroid tablets using free apps available, like Avare, and you can use the latest plates, charts, A/FDs.., just as you could use them in real flying.
The ATC in XPlane has many issues and not nearly as good as the Standard FSX, and in addition in FSX you can go on the Inet and fly with others with real time directions / vectors / headings.
In addition in the Gold version you can create Missions / scenarios with tolerances and flights paths for VFR/ IFR / Commercial check rides, etc. and also if just want to have fun.
In Avare you can turn Tracks ON and OFF, after the flight is complete, this will generate a .kml file that you can analyze and discuss the flight or play it in GPlay.
Yokes do Not work well in any sims, tend to stick, take a lot of space, not enough buttons... A Rudder control, of just about any brand can be very useful, especially when practicing ILSs / precision approaches.
I am not sure if XPlane will ever make a decent C172 that can be used as a tool by instructors, for VFR training and the flight models, as they come standard, tend to overreact, have excessive turning tendencies, and very difficult to set up to work properly with most controllers. There are very few desirable points that would make it a good tool for light GA. If you want to play around, pretend you are a Hot Shot super pilot of the Heavy/ 747, or run a car / acft on the highways / surface, it will satisfy those needs.
I have given up on them making something that I can use as a tool, and I will also, for the first time since XPlane came out, will no longer purchase it. There are many other better options.
 
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I have a few hours of sim time and I'll tell you something I have at home that is actually WAY better. Virtual reality.

It is crazy how realistic it is. You are sitting in a pilots seat and you can look all around the plane and play with most of the buttons and such. You can even change seats or float beside the plane outside. Everywhere you look is the inside of the cabin, unlike the sim at the flight school. The VR simulator has about a dozen planes, but the only one I use are the Cessna 172, Beechcraft Baron and King Air. I wish it had more planes like the Cessna 206 or Cirrus SR22. They are working on updates to give even more cockpit controls useability.

In the real sim it all feels fake, in VR you forget your aren’t in a real plane. The physics are pretty good. It is really good for practicing. You can set up wind, sun, rain, time of day, etc.

Hardware: HTC Vive, Gaming computer, racing seat with frame for video games, yoke, throttle controls, rudder controls, nice over the ear headphones.

Software: Steam, Aerofly FS 2 Flight Simulator
 
I was 100% green when I decided to get my PPL. I mean a complete noob.
The sim helped me learn about flying before I ever set foot in a GA plane. I did sim work about 3 months before taking my first discovery flight.
I literally rolled down the runway the first time and rotated at 65 without any help from the CFI and took off.
Scared the crap out of me when it was all of a sudden 'for real' lol.
I highly suggest a sim for complete noobs like me. They have practice modules that are helpful.
My work load on my first few flights wasn't nearly as bad because I had learned what instruments did what, how to fly a pattern, what a flare was, some navigation, and some of the radio calls.
I can guarantee it saved me at least a few hours flight time. Enough to pay for the sim and equipment for sure.

And as already mentioned, when I go for IFR it will really pay off.

I haven't flown with VR yet, but played another game with it, and yes, it is indeed immersive as hell.
 
bluesideup said:
MSFSX will interface to any Anadroid tablets using free apps available, like Avare, and you can use the latest plates, charts, A/FDs.., just as you could use them in real flying.
The ATC in XPlane has many issues and not nearly as good as the Standard FSX, and in addition in FSX you can go on the Inet and fly with others with real time directions / vectors / headings.
In addition in the Gold version you can create Missions / scenarios with tolerances and flights paths for VFR/ IFR / Commercial check rides, etc. and also if just want to have fun.
In Avare you can turn Tracks ON and OFF, after the flight is complete, this will generate a .kml file that you can analyze and discuss the flight or play it in GPlay.
Yokes do Not work well in any sims, tend to stick, take a lot of space, not enough buttons... A Rudder control, of just about any brand can be very useful, especially when practicing ILSs / precision approaches.
I am not sure if XPlane will ever make a decent C172 that can be used as a tool by instructors, for VFR training and the flight models, as they come standard, tend to overreact, have excessive turning tendencies, and very difficult to set up to work properly with most controllers. There are very few desirable points that would make it a good tool for light GA. If you want to play around, pretend you are a Hot Shot super pilot of the Heavy/ 747, or run a car / acft on the highways / surface, it will satisfy those needs.
I have given up on them making something that I can use as a tool, and I will also, for the first time since XPlane came out, will no longer purchase it. There are many other better options.
Click to expand...
I fly GPS approaches (real and sim) using the panel mount, so FSX is nearly useless for that purpose now, as most all the approaches in the FSX sim are obsolete - they don't match the real world plates. The Xplane 11 GPS is a near-clone of a Garmin 530, while the FSX GPS is a generic box. And after a looong time with FSX, and just a few sessions with XPlane, I find the UI for XPlane is superior. Using the yoke with either is about the same, no real diffrence. I'm not so much interested in a sim as a toy or game platform as I am as a useful IFR training aid; the XPlane 172 and GPS combination just works much better than my old FSX, in simulating a GPS approach in a 172, using current plates.
 
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Sundancer said:
I fly GPS approaches (real and sim) using the panel mount, so FSX is nearly useless for that purpose now, as most all the approaches in the FSX sim are obsolete - they don't match the real world plates. The Xplane 11 GPS is a near-clone of a Garmin 530, while the FSX GPS is a generic box. And after a looong time with FSX, and just a few sessions with XPlane, I find the UI for XPlane is superior. Using the yoke with either is about the same, no real diffrence. I'm not so much interested in a sim as a toy or game platform as I am as a useful IFR training aid; the XPlane 172 and GPS combination just works much better than my old FSX, in simulating a GPS approach in a 172, using current plates.
Click to expand...

Why would you use FSX plates anyway? Just link your iPad EFB to your sim....
 
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