Flight Sim for student

Sport Pilot

Sport Pilot

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Fellow Pilots,
I need your guidance.
Many of you know that I drive 2 1/2 hours to the airport for training (5 hour round trip). Secondly, my occupation (Mortician) requires me to be on-call 2 weeks out of each month.

What does this mean?

My actual flying time is not as productive as it could be. As an example, yesterday I flew 1.4 hours. Out of that number, it took me 30 minutes to get acclimated to flying before I could actually be productive.

Therefore, I have decided that a flight simulator would greatly keep my skills sharp during the week. I could fly on the simulator when I am on-call versus sitting at home doing nothing waiting for someone to die.

Can someone offer suggestions on my thoughts? Also, can someone guide me where to purchase or someone here sell me a used rudder, throttle, and yoke?

I have completed my solo and cross-country; I am getting real close.
 
Are you looking for a prepackage solution or DIY your own kit? Also Microsoft is reintroducing their all new sim software in a few months. It will be a paradigm change.
 
I saw Sporty’s is selling the Deluxe Saiten flight simulator bundle; which includes rudder, yoke, throttle, and program for approximately 360.00.

I have never considered a flight simulator but after I flew yesterday, I knew something had to change. I need to get behind the controls more; and that would have to be through a simulator.

Basically I am asking:

Do flight simulators help?
Am I am making a sound decision?
Will it assist me?
 
If you're working on your private certificate right now, then my take is that desktop flight simulator software is useful for practicing checklists, procedures, and similar operations. If you can find an airplane for your simulator that is a realistic facsimile of what you fly in real life, it may also be useful for practicing things like GPS and VOR navigation. It is also a great way to practice instrument flying and procedures, when used in combination with the real airplane.

What flight simulators will not help much with are your stick and rudder flying skills. Practicing landings, steep turns, ground reference maneuvers, stalls, spins, etc. in the sim won't do a lot to help you improve, or keep you current. I won't go as far as to say it's not useful at all (which is certainly what some people think), but most of the flight models just aren't good enough, especially for things like stalls. There's no substitute for the "feel" of the real airplane for those maneuvers. Simulators also won't really help with radio communication -- listening to LiveATC in between flights is probably a better way to get more comfortable with that.

That being said, I use X-Plane quite extensively for practicing procedures and instrument approaches, and for fun. I think its flight model is more realistic than the old Microsoft Flight Simulator releases, but others would disagree. The upcoming Microsoft release looks really outstanding and I look forward to trying it out. If you do set up a flight sim rig, then I think the Saitek hardware is pretty good. There's also a new product called the "Honeycomb Alpha" flight yoke which looks interesting.
 
Due to the recent time change and the 2 1/2 hour drive to the airport, it would be dark by the time i arrive at the airport. So at this time, I am only able to fly on weekends. And if the weather is bad or I am on-call that weekend, well, I won’t fly. This is why I wanted a sim to keep my skills sharp.

I just assumed a flight simulator would help me with that.
 
If you were a brand new student it might help. But you mention at the end of your post that you have already soloed and done your cross-country time. I don't think it will have much benefit so close to your checkride. At the VFR level, it's good as a learning tool, not a practice tool. Chair flying is probably equally likely or unlikely to keep your skills sharp in preparation for your checkride, and is free.
 
Once you finish your PPL, will your flying be as sporadic as your training?

If so, your skills will atrophy between flights just as they do now. So, you should train until there is no longer significant drop off in your skills between sessions. I don’t think a sim will help much with that.
 
preface by saying I haven't flown with the more modern sims....
I did a bit back in 2002 though. It was some sort of red bird sim, a logable training device the flight school had. At that point I was instrument rated but rusty. I just found it frustrating because the sim just didn't match real life. It was supposed to be set up as a 172 for example, but a given power setting just didn't give a real world performance result. I suppose it was useful polishing procedure, but switching between it and the real aircraft was just frustrating to me.

The other more constructive thing I can add.... back when I was working on my private back in the early 1990's, someone gave me a cassette tape program on radio work. I used to listen to it while driving a half hour each way to/from work....or occasionally if I had some down time. I pretty much could only fly weekends, and was at the mercy of the weather, etc.... It was basically like meditation in a way. The idea...Basically sit down in a distraction free place and for 30 minutes make a real time 30 minute flight in your mind...in the "actual" aircraft you normally fly. Move every switch, push the throttle, pull the carb heat, pitch for the speed,make every radio call..... I think it really did/does help.
 
Sport Pilot said:
Fellow Pilots,

Therefore, I have decided that a flight simulator would greatly keep my skills sharp during the week. I could fly on the simulator when I am on-call versus sitting at home doing nothing waiting for someone to die.

Can someone offer suggestions on my thoughts? Also, can someone guide me where to purchase or someone here sell me a used rudder, throttle, and yoke?
Click to expand...



Hi.

Before you get started on the sim talk to your instructor about it, and ask him / her if OK?

I would not spend too much money on the sim and gear, you can get started with the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro US $26.99 and the Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition, at some later time you should get the Rudder pedals, and when the FS2020 comes out you will know how to use it and many of the addons available now will work with it.

MSFSX is vary stable, has a lot of free addons, and still what I think it’s best for training.

XP11 is constantly changing, acft from ver11.20 will not work in 11.40... the Flight dynamics is not very good for the C172… and very few free addons.

See flightsim.com below for more information.
https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/forum.php

See some info on where to get the needed parts.

Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition US $5.00 [ 0 bids
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-...434343&hash=item593ec83a13:g:yJ8AAOSw6Fhd6taA

You may qualify as Student?
Prepar3D US $59.95 per license
https://www.prepar3d.com/prepar3d-store/

X Plane 11 Global Edition PC 8 DVD set US $59.99

https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-Plane-11...442571&hash=item2836f04518:g:GM0AAOSw-29ZOVCE


Logitech Extreme 3D Pro US $26.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-J...623742?hash=item469fdabebe:g:FTgAAOSwU0VdrNuz

CH Products Pro Rudder Pedals USB PPU995 USB US ~$80.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CH-Product...097738?hash=item3d98c5b0ca:g:OScAAOSwQApd568h

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CH-Product...796548?hash=item23ca8877c4:g:xDwAAOSwVjpdykVo
 
Yeah...I did a fair bit of simulator flying before I started my private, and quickly learned there was zero crossover. It did help a bit with learning vor's and reading sectionals, but nothing beyond that. My instructor strongly suggested staying off the sim as it would cause more bad habits than good.

After I got my certificate, I fired up the sim again.... and even with a yoke & pedals it has about as much in common with flying as playing a racing simulator with a gamepad. It's also not really fun anymore....

I plan to use it as a tool when I start instrument training, but I think it's detrimental to the private which is all about learning aircraft control.
 
I hate simulators. Even the level D full motion sims don't match up great with real life. In my experience sims are squirrely little ******* whos purpose in to teach procedures not flying.
 
In my opinion, it can have some value regarding the OP's situation. Maybe chair flying could have a little value too, but damn, I'd certainly rather sim than do that. Plus you can play around with different aircraft, etc., for fun.
You can also pre-fly some airports you plan for that you've never been to. Some are fairly accurate.. especially more popular ones.
Glad to see a student (or anyone) working to find ways to reduce stress and try to be safe when flying.
 
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Flight simulators are useful for keeping your mind engaged in aviation, but you won't learn stick and rudder skills. Regarding bad habits, I think that claim is often exaggerated. You can learn bad habits even in a real airplane. I flew on Microsoft Flight Sim way back in the 80's when it looked like a tetris game. I spent countless hours flying with the keyboard (no mouse either). I don't think it did any particular harm when I started flying real airplanes.
 
It depends upon the student. When I started my training, my CFI instructed me to stop using sims. Sims create habits that have you focused on the instruments (which is why they are so productive for IR training), and when you are training for a VFR rating like a Private, or Sport pilot rating, that can break the good habits that you develop in the air (especially if you find yourself flying only a few hours a week and on the sim more).

Since you are so close, consider scheduling some long weekends or getting a hotel and flying 2 lessons a day on Saturday/Sunday.
 
Not to hijack thread, but what is a good sim for new ifr student?
 
Since you are so close, consider scheduling some long weekends or getting a hotel and flying 2 lessons a day on Saturday/Sunday.
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Good idea.

Ok. So at this point, I just need to get in the air as much as I can during the weekends when I am not on-call and when the weather is good.

Last year, my flight training was awesome. Things were going great; I was flying, learning, and then BAM! progress stalled due to the time change and then BAM! progress stalled even more due to the snow. When I started flying regularly in April (after time change and weather better), I felt that I had a lot of catch up to do.

I am can already see this is happening again and wanted to be proactive. However, reading the much appreciated comments, it doesn’t sound like sound idea. It actually will be counterproductive.

I soloed on August 2018. My XC was on October 2019. I will get my certificate somewhere in 2020. It is not a race and I am enjoying the journey. I also enjoy sharing it with PoA.
 
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That's tough. I admire your dedication. I know there's no way I would have stuck it out with that much driving.
 
That's tough. I admire your dedication. I know there's no way I would have stuck it out with that much driving.
Click to expand...

The AOPA studies indicate 80% student pilots quit their training. I refuse to be in that group. Plus, I now have almost 300 hours of drive time, so it doesn’t affect me at all now. :)
 
Normally, I'd follow the suggestions of others to "stay off the sim and stick to the real thing", for all the reasons they've pointed out. It's easy to fool one's self into thinking you're mastering a skill, when really you're just solidifying bad habits, etc... And some students try to use it as a cost-reduction strategy, which I would not recommend.
But @Sport Pilot, from your "body of work" on this forum, you sound like a pretty self-aware person who can understand the difference between "productive training" and "dorking around on a computer". In your particular situation, I can see how passing time on the sim could serve a purpose of just keeping your mind and spirit engaged, just like reading aviation books (or online forums) can. Don't think of it as "training". But go for it if it's just fun!

Or, set aside a week and arrange for no one to die during that time. This may take some careful advance planning and coordination... :)
 
I usually recommend that primary students avoid simulators until after they solo. The reason is that sims teach bad habits and they are habits that can produce very bad outcomes in real airplanes. Once you've learned to fly and you've learned the good habit of looking out the window, then sim away and learn navigation, vors, procedures, etc.
 
bluesideup said:
Hi.

Before you get started on the sim talk to your instructor about it, and ask him / her if OK?

I would not spend too much money on the sim and gear, you can get started with the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro US $26.99 and the Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition, at some later time you should get the Rudder pedals, and when the FS2020 comes out you will know how to use it and many of the addons available now will work with it.

MSFSX is vary stable, has a lot of free addons, and still what I think it’s best for training.

XP11 is constantly changing, acft from ver11.20 will not work in 11.40... the Flight dynamics is not very good for the C172… and very few free addons.

See flightsim.com below for more information.
https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/forum.php

See some info on where to get the needed parts.

Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition US $5.00 [ 0 bids
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-...434343&hash=item593ec83a13:g:yJ8AAOSw6Fhd6taA

You may qualify as Student?
Prepar3D US $59.95 per license
https://www.prepar3d.com/prepar3d-store/

X Plane 11 Global Edition PC 8 DVD set US $59.99

https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-Plane-11...442571&hash=item2836f04518:g:GM0AAOSw-29ZOVCE


Logitech Extreme 3D Pro US $26.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-J...623742?hash=item469fdabebe:g:FTgAAOSwU0VdrNuz

CH Products Pro Rudder Pedals USB PPU995 USB US ~$80.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CH-Product...097738?hash=item3d98c5b0ca:g:OScAAOSwQApd568h

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CH-Product...796548?hash=item23ca8877c4:g:xDwAAOSwVjpdykVo
Click to expand...
If you are still serious about getting a flight simulator, get FSX: Steam Edition. The standard FSX version doesn't play well on Windows 7, and probably worse on Windows 10. I've tried several joysticks with FSX, and none have worked acceptably.

If you get a control yoke, although I haven't used it, the Honeycomb Alpha isn't that much more than the Saitek, and the CH Products yoke, and seems to be a lot better. The CH Products yoke has throttle, propeller, and mixture levers on it, and Saitek includes a throttle quadrant with the yoke. You'll need to add a throttle quadrant with the Honeycomb Alpha, maybe the Saitek quadrant.

I'm going to be contrarian here. I hadn't flown anything for 2 years, and that was a C-172. I had a familiarization flight in an Evektor Sport LSA locally. In the meantime, I'd been flying my FSX at home.
I had about an hour's flight with an instructor. He said I didn't only look at the instruments, but I kept my eyes outside the cockpit, and I knew exactly how high we were, even with the altimeter covered. Finally, I made my second best landing ever in that LSA. The best was my very first, which was in a Citabria.
 
Sport Pilot said:
Last year, my flight training was awesome. Things were going great; I was flying, learning, and then BAM! progress stalled due to the time change and then BAM! progress stalled even more due to the snow. When I started flying regularly in April (after time change and weather better), I felt that I had a lot of catch up to do.

I am can already see this is happening again and wanted to be proactive.

I soloed on August 2018. My XC was on October 2019. I will get my certificate somewhere in 2020.
Click to expand...

I understand I was hit with a similar issue in 2018 (with only a 1.25-hour drive to the training airport). I started training in Fall 2018, but time changes, early sunsets and winter weather stalled my training. I took some time off to get signed off in May hoping to have my ticket before summer, it would have worked if I had been able to schedule my check ride earlier, but I had my first attempt in July, and didn't get my ticket until August.

If I were in your position, not only would I schedule time to finish up, I would consider finishing at a place that has the examiner on site so you can take your check ride as soon as you are ready. The hardest part of my training was staying ready as I had to schedule and reschedule my check ride when I had a 2.5-hour round trip to the airport.

Also, if you don't have a sim, don't buy one while training. The second hardest part of my training was not flying the simulator after I realized it was a problem. Wanting to be doing "something" to work toward my ticket, even knowing that something was counterproductive, was a tough fight.
 
Another option is to try to finish up early in the year, the DPEs around here seem to be more available in February than in July (but you may be fighting the weather, depending upon your location).
 
Sport Pilot said:
The AOPA studies indicate 80% student pilots quit their training. I refuse to be in that group. Plus, I now have almost 300 hours of drive time, so it doesn’t affect me at all now. :)
Click to expand...
Hang in there! I just wanted to chime in to say I did my private cert over 2 years at a 3 hour per month pace. It's not ideal but it is doable. I figured if I couldn't stay skilled enough to pass the check ride at that pace then I shouldn't have the cert, since I didn't plan on magically having more time to fly after obtaining it. My advice is to just keep your head in it by reading the handbook or notes you have taken regarding what you are planning to work on next or need improvement on. Take pictures of the panel so you can look through the checklist?
As far as Sims go, every time I've tried a Sim I've just been frustrated. The real plane is so much easier to control. I only tried low budget PC Sims though so I can't speak to usefulness of a "good" one.
 
Get the Steam Edition of MSFSX and a good set of rudder pedals and yoke. Avoid the cheap Joysticks as they have poor calibration and just don't last. Enjoy simming as a supplement to your training like books, videos, forums, etc. A good pilot is always learning.
 
exncsurfer said:
Hang in there! I just wanted to chime in to say I did my private cert over 2 years at a 3 hour per month pace. It's not ideal but it is doable. I figured if I couldn't stay skilled enough to pass the check ride at that pace then I shouldn't have the cert, since I didn't plan on magically having more time to fly after obtaining it.
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:yeahthat:

Spot on!
 
I definitely made the right decision by referring to PoA before purchasing a sim.

Thank you everyone for sharing your guidance and giving me your opinions.

You guys are great!
 
Crashnburn said:
If you are still serious about getting a flight simulator, get FSX: Steam Edition. The standard FSX version doesn't play well on Windows 7, and probably worse on Windows 10. I've tried several joysticks with FSX, and none have worked acceptably.

If you get a control yoke, although I haven't used it, the Honeycomb Alpha isn't that much more than the Saitek, and the CH Products yoke, and seems to be a lot better. The CH Products yoke has throttle, propeller, and mixture levers on it, and Saitek includes a throttle quadrant with the yoke. You'll need to add a throttle quadrant with the Honeycomb Alpha, maybe the Saitek quadrant.

I'm going to be contrarian here. I hadn't flown anything for 2 years, and that was a C-172. I had a familiarization flight in an Evektor Sport LSA locally. In the meantime, I'd been flying my FSX at home.
I had about an hour's flight with an instructor. He said I didn't only look at the instruments, but I kept my eyes outside the cockpit, and I knew exactly how high we were, even with the altimeter covered. Finally, I made my second best landing ever in that LSA. The best was my very first, which was in a Citabria.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you were well aware the whole time about what to pay attention to.
I played around with flight sims before starting my actual flight training, and result was I was too glued to the instrument panel. Flight sims, specially just on a laptop where changing view is kind of unnatural and cumbersome, can tend to make one instrument fixated unless like you seem to have done, one is aware of that and makes an effort to do both in the right balance.

That said, I had no illusions that I knew anything when I started flying. Since it is way more tactile, you feel gravity, motion, etc, I just listened to my instructor. Later when doing flight sims at home then I kept that in mind, doing things as I was taught. Keeping my hand on the throttle the whole takeoff, etc. going through checklists.

But too, I think there are some very good points about “habit”, but even as dangerous, the reactions when things go bad. Not during normal maneuvers but if you lose control how you gain it back again may not be realistic and yet sit in the back of your mind as an option.

I really don’t know, I think it is good practice for keeping eyes outside the airplane and quick glances at instruments. I would actually be as happy with a flash card app that would show you an instrument for a second or two and you had to read it correctly in that time, like a quiz.
 
exncsurfer said:
I figured if I couldn't stay skilled enough to pass the check ride at that pace then I shouldn't have the cert, since I didn't plan on magically having more time to fly after obtaining it.
Click to expand...

Staying skilled and staying ready to take the check ride are 2 different states. One is like having test anxiety for 4 months straight.

Also, in the case of pilots who have to drive a long distance for training, that is exactly what happens. Now that I am only driving an hour to fly instead of two and a half, I fly more when I fly and I fly more often (to the point where owning my own plane is clearly mathematically justifiable).
 
During my PPL I used to audio record my flying lessons and refly them on my sim over and over again to help cement Bravo radio comms and procedures.

But for where you are at I don’t see it being a benefit. However, if you are planning ahead to get an IR then why not? It’s super helpful in practicing procedures, and even working on your scan.

If you plan on going that route:

You will likely need a better computer than you can buy off the shelf. So plan on home building your own rig. I have most of the Saitek stuff (yoke, rudders, TPM, trim wheel). MSFX is fine, plus there are missions that are somewhat entertaining. I used that during my PPL. I’m using X-Plane now and it’s sufficient for what you would need. Hoping the new MS FS is a homerun.
 
woodchucker said:
During my PPL I used to audio record my flying lessons and refly them on my sim over and over again to help cement Bravo radio comms and procedures.

But for where you are at I don’t see it being a benefit. However, if you are planning ahead to get an IR then why not? It’s super helpful in practicing procedures, and even working on your scan.

If you plan on going that route:

You will likely need a better computer than you can buy off the shelf. So plan on home building your own rig. I have most of the Saitek stuff (yoke, rudders, TPM, trim wheel). MSFX is fine, plus there are missions that are somewhat entertaining. I used that during my PPL. I’m using X-Plane now and it’s sufficient for what you would need. Hoping the new MS FS is a homerun.
Click to expand...

I found x plane frustrating, with a good deal of time spent just getting the scenery halfway decent (like decent enough to be able to have a chance to recognize areas and see The airport before you are on top of it) as well as many tweaks to get it smooth, a learning curve also to just use it.

I found FSX more ready to use out of the box, but X plane better after many hours of tweaking.

I eventually abandoned the joystick as it was too tricky to use for rudder control (twisting) and bought Saitek rudder pedals, yoke, and throttle block. It helped a lot and was not too expensive.

also, running on a laptop, one I bought and asked the salesman for one that could handle x plane specifically, but I probably should have gone for a dedicated PC, it has a good graphics card, but my frame rate needed lots of tweaking to be able to not hang, chop up video and be able to have just ok scenery.

I found it frustrating having to go so deep, so much learning curve just to set it up when I wanted to just fly it.
 
There are so many proven use cases where flight sims can help you stay sharp when you can't fly IF you understand the limitations of the sim. As stated already, a home flight sim will not effectively let you practice stick and rudder skills...don't even try. However, they can be a fantastic supplement for procedural practice. X-plane's default 172 is complete enough to run every checklist as if you were in the real thing. You can get real-time weather and practice cross country dead reckoning. The key is that you "fly" from startup to shut down as if you were in your real plane from a procedure and decision making standpoint.

Also, I'll plug PilotEdge.net for coms and ATC. It will allow you to practice realistic coms and ATC interaction with real people who follow very strictly ATC procedures even at a VFR level. That gives it built-in accountability to encourage you to fly just as you would in the real world. Then later, if you go on to get an instrument rating, it will be some of the best training money you spend. My instructor was in disbelief how well prepared with coms and procedures I was when we flew our first IFR in the system. It was already second nature thanks to having practiced it realistically hundreds of times on the network.

As far as a recommendation for which sim and hardware, as of today I'd start with X-plane 11 as it has a pretty good Cessna 172 included. FSX needs additional add-on planes to get the procedural depth needed. Out of the box scenery for either X-plane or FSX is really not good at all. The new version of Microsoft Flight Sim looks amazing, but it won't likely be released for 8-12 months. For hardware, again, since flight sims don't do a good job with stick and rudder, the Logitech yoke/rudder/throttle combo is fine. The Honeycomb Alpha Yoke is really nice for not much more than the Logitech. Heck if you stick with using the sim for procedural practice, you can get by with a $40 Logitech Extreme 3D Pro flight stick.
 
snglecoil said:
There are so many proven use cases where flight sims can help you stay sharp when you can't fly IF you understand the limitations of the sim. As stated already, a home flight sim will not effectively let you practice stick and rudder skills...don't even try. However, they can be a fantastic supplement for procedural practice. X-plane's default 172 is complete enough to run every checklist as if you were in the real thing. You can get real-time weather and practice cross country dead reckoning. The key is that you "fly" from startup to shut down as if you were in your real plane from a procedure and decision making standpoint.

Also, I'll plug PilotEdge.net for coms and ATC. It will allow you to practice realistic coms and ATC interaction with real people who follow very strictly ATC procedures even at a VFR level. That gives it built-in accountability to encourage you to fly just as you would in the real world. Then later, if you go on to get an instrument rating, it will be some of the best training money you spend. My instructor was in disbelief how well prepared with coms and procedures I was when we flew our first IFR in the system. It was already second nature thanks to having practiced it realistically hundreds of times on the network.

As far as a recommendation for which sim and hardware, as of today I'd start with X-plane 11 as it has a pretty good Cessna 172 included. FSX needs additional add-on planes to get the procedural depth needed. Out of the box scenery for either X-plane or FSX is really not good at all. The new version of Microsoft Flight Sim looks amazing, but it won't likely be released for 8-12 months. For hardware, again, since flight sims don't do a good job with stick and rudder, the Logitech yoke/rudder/throttle combo is fine. The Honeycomb Alpha Yoke is really nice for not much more than the Logitech. Heck if you stick with using the sim for procedural practice, you can get by with a $40 Logitech Extreme 3D Pro flight stick.
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I just checked out PilotEdge.net. Way Cool!
 
I have xPlane and a VR setup with yoke and rudder pedals. When I was doing my private training, I had to stop using it. It was screwing up the seat of the pants, stick and rudder type flying that you need in real VFR flying. Once I got my private, I started using it again to practice approaches and,honstly, just for fun. I use it when I can't fly for a few weeks just to stay in the aviation state of mind. And it's fun. But not a very useful training aide... for me anyway.
 
Deelee said:
I have xPlane and a VR setup with yoke and rudder pedals. When I was doing my private training, I had to stop using it. It was screwing up the seat of the pants, stick and rudder type flying that you need in real VFR flying. Once I got my private, I started using it again to practice approaches and,honstly, just for fun. I use it when I can't fly for a few weeks just to stay in the aviation state of mind. And it's fun. But not a very useful training aide... for me anyway.
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I don’t know if others experience this but (not that I’m saying real life flying is easy) to me it is a good deal more difficult to land, navigate VFR, etc. in a flight sim than actually doing it.
I know at least one experienced pilot that has said the same thing.

Maybe it is better also without VR, as it adds a degree of realism (fake realism) where flat screen is clearly not the same visual input, or even close to the real thing.

But another point, even from way before we had personal computers, pilots, CFIs have recommended “armchair flying” (some even suggest a banana for a stick..) to go through the motions, burn in procedures, etc. as part of training. To my mind the dangers of bad habits, or wrong thinking is even more so there, with no feedback at all, just imagination. So isn’t a sim just a little more advanced type of armchair flying, but at least with feedback where any mistaken ideas or forgotten points would be apparent?
 
LongRoadBob said:
I don’t know if others experience this but (not that I’m saying real life flying is easy) to me it is a good deal more difficult to land, navigate VFR, etc. in a flight sim than actually doing it.
I know at least one experienced pilot that has said the same thing.

Maybe it is better also without VR, as it adds a degree of realism (fake realism) where flat screen is clearly not the same visual input, or even close to the real thing.

But another point, even from way before we had personal computers, pilots, CFIs have recommended “armchair flying” (some even suggest a banana for a stick..) to go through the motions, burn in procedures, etc. as part of training. To my mind the dangers of bad habits, or wrong thinking is even more so there, with no feedback at all, just imagination. So isn’t a sim just a little more advanced type of armchair flying, but at least with feedback where any mistaken ideas or forgotten points would be apparent?
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Whomever suggested holding a banana between your legs was clearly trolling you.

And just to try to negate this “bad habit” baloney, a decent pilot, or decent student pilot, will be able to differentiate between what a sim can positively add, and ignore the negative behaviors.

It’s kinda tiring to keep saying what a sim can’t do. Recognize what it can’t do and learn from what it can do.
 
woodchucker said:
Whomever suggested holding a banana between your legs was clearly trolling you.

And just to try to negate this “bad habit” baloney, a decent pilot, or decent student pilot, will be able to differentiate between what a sim can positively add, and ignore the negative behaviors.

It’s kinda tiring to keep saying what a sim can’t do. Recognize what it can’t do and learn from what it can do.
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No one was suggesting it to me. It was on some website. Don’t get hung up on the banana. (That last is free for anyone to use for their POA signature!)
Point is still valid, IF it was always suggested students did armchair flying then sims are a few steps up from that and must be just as valid but better.

And apparently there is (big surprise) NOT a consensus about what a sim can and can’t teach you. People all have different opinions on that point here.
 
When I first started learning landings, I had trouble disconnecting my feet and hands during crosswind landings. Flying 20 or 30 landings with a 20 knot direct crosswind programmed into the sim unlocked my problem in one session. Instructor was impressed with the difference next flight.

that’s about the only thing a sim did for me for PPL
 
LongRoadBob said:
And apparently there is (big surprise) NOT a consensus about what a sim can and can’t teach you. People all have different opinions on that point here.
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Not really. Generally pilots here have the same input. Great for procedures and horrible for stick and rudder and “feeling” how the plane reacts.
 
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