Flight Review Required for Additional Category? Has this ever been fixed.

[brcase]

I remember when this came out. Basically the example of why you don't ask Legal Counsel questions you might not like the answer to...

Short Version: is when soloing and additional category aircraft, they said you need to a current flight review.
This a problem for the guys that say are retired helicopter pilots from the Army, haven't flown for a few years and want add a another category, Glider, Airplane, etc.
But in order to do so they have to rent a civilian helicopter they likely have never flown and pass a flight review in an aircraft they probably will never flight again.

Has this ever been fixed. It is a dumb interpretation, because in every other case if you hold a higher certificate you may still exercise the privilege's of a lower certificate. i.e. if you hold a Commercial ATP you can still exercise the privileges' of a Sport Pilot Certificate. This interpretation basically say you can no longer exercise the privilege's of a Student certificate once you hold a higher Certificate.

This fix of course is simply for them to say you may exercise the privileges' of a Student Pilot Certificate even if you hold a higher certificate. The Side effect might be that you have to use Student pilot endorsements, instead of Additional Category endorsements, but that is a minor and much less costly fix.


Here is a recap of the problem.
You do require a flight review, per the Beard (2013) interpretation:

Finally, you have also asked whether a person operating in solo flight under a § 61.31(d) endorsement must comply with the flight review requirements in § 61.56(c). With a few listed exceptions, no person make act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless within the previous 24 calendar months that person completed a flight review with an authorized instructor. 14 C.F.R. § 61.56(c). Section 61.56(g) provides an exception for student pilots provided the student pilot is undergoing training for a certificate and has a current solo flight endorsement as required under § 61.87. Because this exception applies to student pilots, a pilot who holds a higher level pilot certificate and has an endorsement for solo flight under § 61.31(d) must comply with the flight review requirements in § 61.56 before acting as pilot in command of any aircraft.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I have a friend who has to do the same thing. He needs to get a FR in SEL before he can do the glider thing. Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[jbarrass]

Yeah, convoluted, but an easy work-around is during your training for the additional category, knock out a wings level, which counts as a flight review.

 

[Lindberg]

I remember when this came out. Basically the example of why you don't ask Legal Counsel questions you might not like the answer to...

Short Version: is when soloing and additional category aircraft, they said you need to a current flight review.
This a problem for the guys that say are retired helicopter pilots from the Army, haven't flown for a few years and want add a another category, Glider, Airplane, etc.
But in order to do so they have to rent a civilian helicopter they likely have never flown and pass a flight review in an aircraft they probably will never flight again.

Has this ever been fixed. It is a dumb interpretation, because in every other case if you hold a higher certificate you may still exercise the privilege's of a lower certificate. i.e. if you hold a Commercial ATP you can still exercise the privileges' of a Sport Pilot Certificate. This interpretation basically say you can no longer exercise the privilege's of a Student certificate once you hold a higher Certificate.

This fix of course is simply for them to say you may exercise the privileges' of a Student Pilot Certificate even if you hold a higher certificate. The Side effect might be that you have to use Student pilot endorsements, instead of Additional Category endorsements, but that is a minor and much less costly fix.


Here is a recap of the problem.
You do require a flight review, per the Beard (2013) interpretation:



Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

The guy in your example could surrender his pilot certificate and go back to being a student, maybe. That would require him to take the glider written test(s) though.

 

[JScarry]

Yeah, convoluted, but an easy work-around is during your training for the additional category, knock out a wings level, which counts as a flight review.

I don’t think so. A flight review requires that you do one hour in an aircraft in which you are rated. Your training in a different category of aircraft doesn't count.

§ 61.56 Flight review.
(c) (1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor…

And from AC 61-91J WINGS—Pilot Proficiency Program
Pilots may demonstrate all proficiency requirements for any phase of the WINGS Program in the same category and class, or may demonstrate those skills in any category and class for which they are rated.

 

[midlifeflyer]

So, basically, once you have a pilot certificate above the student level, you are never a ”student pilot” again (unless revoked or you surrender it).

Seems like it’s going to create an issue for the odd case like this one, but I doubt there is enough to interest the FAA in a fix.

 

[brcase]

Yeah, convoluted, but an easy work-around is during your training for the additional category, knock out a wings level, which counts as a flight review.

Ah, thanks for mention this. I sort of remember this now.

What I don't remember is if you can complete the wings flight credits in an aircraft you are not rated for?

Brian

 

[Lindberg]

So, basically, once you have a pilot certificate above the student level, you are never a ”student pilot” again (unless revoked or you surrender it).

Seems like it’s going to create an issue for the odd case like this one, but I doubt there is enough to interest the FAA in a fix.

This really is a self-limiting problem. Most people probably don't know or care about this "issue," and the only ones who could enforce it are the CFIs giving solo endorsements. There might be a curse of knowledge in some cases, but maybe a few stiff drinks could fix that. Not that anyone should ever knowingly ignore a chief counsel letter.

 

[dmspilot]

One would think that if, for example, a commercial pilot can exercise private, recreational, or sport privileges, then they should also be able to exercise student pilot privileges.

 

[MauleSkinner]

One would think that if, for example, a commercial pilot can exercise private, recreational, or sport privileges, then they should also be able to exercise student pilot privileges.

Do Student Pilot certificates expire? If so, that could be the sticking point.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

Do Student Pilot certificates expire? If so, that could be the sticking point.

They used to expire after two years when they were part of the medical certificate. Now they no longer expire.

 

[midlifeflyer]

No,

Do Student Pilot certificates expire? If so, that could be the sticking point.

They don’t expire, but they are superseded by the private certificate. It’s not like having an ATP with a single engine commercial privileges limitation.

 

[tonycondon]

You use the wings program.

 

[TommyG]

I don’t get why people ask chief counsel to basically narrow down and put tighter rules on regulations. They simply don’t understand when it comes to the government it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

 

[BillTIZ]

I've had pilots with an expired flight review in Airplanes, add the Light Sport Glider. There is no solo time required for Light Sport, but receiving the rating resets the Flight Review timer, they gain the "solo PIC" time needed for a standard Private or Commercial Glider rating and press on.