Flight planning assistance: Bozeman, MT to Prescott, AZ in a C172

[allPrimes]

My fiance and I (153.6TT, 94.5PIC) would like to fly to Prescott, AZ, in August (!) in one of the club's 180hp C172. She's starting an online graduate program and needs to be down there for some sort of student colloquium. Rather than fly commercial or drive, her first thought was maybe allPrimes would like to fly us! Seems reasonable. However, the longest flights for which I've flight planned have been non-stop (Bozeman to Missoula or Conrad, MT or Lewistown, MT or Driggs, ID) and I'm now doing some research on routes and where best to stop between here and Prescott.

Current route

My nth draft of the trip down is:
1. Depart Bozeman early (5:30-6am or so), stop in Idaho Falls for initial bladder break, quick breakfast (somewhere), refuel.



2. Idaho Falls, skirt the west side of the SLC Class B, and down to Richfield Municipal (KRIF) for lunch and refuel. This would be longest portion of flight.



3. Richfield to Prescott, through the Dragon Bravo corridor over the Grand Canyon.



Return trip would be similar, but with a stop in Tuba City, AZ, because I am a tuba player and I need to do that.

Thoughts

• Density Altitude: All airports from which I'm planning on land/take off have >7k' runways and it will just be she and I with small baggage each. Still, it'll likely be warm. We'll cruise as high as we can for comfort and safety (glide) reasons.
• I'd file VFR and would get on with flight following so I could be talking to someone, especially as I fly near the SLC bravo.
• This route puts me close to some of the MOAs near SLC, but not through any of them. I chose the west side of the Wasatch range to avoid any significant mountain wave action on the east side.
• Of course I'd need to avoid any TFRs (likely firefighting) that pop-up between now and the trip.

We've built in two days on either side of the time during which she needs to be in Prescott for the flight down/back. Currently planning on down in one day with the idea that if we're forced to overnight somewhere, we'd have the next day to make it in to Prescott. Same with the return trip.

Questions

• How does this route look to pilots with more experience than me? Reasonable? Doable? Silly?
• Are there any airports that I should definitely avoid? Visit?
• If this route is something you would argue against, what alternatives would you suggest? (Notably, if we do have to bail on the flight down, she's planning on using those two days to drive from BZN to Prescott.)

 

[luvflyin]

Sounds like she needs to be there on a certain day. Plan away, but something may strand you somewhere. What’s the old saying? If you don’t have time to spare, don’t go by air. Maybe doing this when the Calendar is your primary instrument so to speak isn’t such a good idea.

 

[Rgbeard]

You MUST visit Sedona (SEZ) while in town. I think it’s a legal requirement ;-)

Prescott is very busy with flight training. Have your awareness at 110%. Some of the students don’t always understand what they’re told.

Understand density altitude and exactly what a 75deg day means at Prescott/Sedona/Flagstaff. You wouldn’t be the first one to scare yourself when you find out that 200’/min doesn’t seem like much. (You’re from MT, so you get it, but consider the temps)

 

[schmookeeg]

Route looks fine, bordering on ideal given the two points you're connecting. Anything better will nearly double the distance IMO.

It's gonna be, uh, bumpy.

I just overflew Prescott on Wednesday. It's annoyingly humid given what's on Arizona's travel brochure. Also I had to pick my way through quite a few lightning-throwing buildups. I'd bone up on your tstorm avoidance and make sure you had some sort of ADS-B in/XM radar to keep an eye on them.

There was also a line of these little dudes between PRC and IGM. Rather than get my eggs scrambled, I followed the line northwest to Vegas before turning west.

 

[kaiser]

For me (500TT), that mission is:
- Day* VFR only (*enough light to see rocks since you're not doing any ridge crossings)
- Aircraft max 90% of max gross weight, or less since it's a 180hp.
- winds less than 25kts at surface, less than 35 kts at 12kft. I'd also pay close attention to the 500mb chart.
- Avoid precip unless there's a landing area below me
- I'd leave at day break (could be before 530a)
- Since I want to be down by 12pm, I'd plan on 2 days. Any delay pushes you past noon.
- Bring lots of sick bags for pax in case I break the rule above
- Bring cash and cards

Be ready with lots of escape plans, including turning around and going home. For example, right now there's something over SLC, would you go right or left of that system? What are other GA aircraft doing around that system? How low does weather radar point over there? I know over the Colorado rockies you don't get returns below 23k ft or so. When I fly there, if there's any radar return (even green at the lowest tilt), I'm extremely hesitant.

Most importantly, be ready with an explanation to your fiance that you'll be late.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

Route looks good. We had several POA members cross the Rockies in recent weeks so what you’re planning is definitely doable. Just like others already have said, I would also caution you about your schedule. It’s definitely doable in one or two days but there are a ton of variables that might make it impossible. Other than potential MX issues, a bad break with a wildfire can make the area IFR for days if not weeks. I’m further north but even here we occasionally have wild fire smoke that grounds us for several days so bring your credit card and if flying is a no-go, just rent a car from your last landing spot to make the date.

 

[Zeldman]

Just a FYI, there is NOTHING at Tuba City except for a desolate building that is locked up with chains the last time I was there. It is not close to town. No enclosed bathrooms, but lots of rocks.....

This time of year is called the monsoon season and is very bumpy, and lots of single cell rain showers/thunderstorms in the afternoon that are usually very avoidable.

For density altitudes, plan on flying early and possibly knocking off early. Brush up on leaning for taxi and take off.

No problem on MOA's. Since your on flight following ask them about restricted areas. Most of the time I was able to fly through restricted areas.

Prepare for interruptions in your schedule and be ready to use those alternative plans.

In case I didn't mention it, it will be very bumpy. Prepare for the bumps. I mean be very prepared for the bumps.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

This was when I lived in Vancouver. The first pic was taken before the smoke moved in, the next pics were taken afterwards. It stayed like that for nearly three weeks.

 

[allPrimes]

This was when I lived in Vancouver. The first pic was taken before the smoke moved in, the next pics were taken afterwards. It stayed like that for nearly three weeks.

The photos you've shared are similar to what Bozeman and most of SW Montana were like last summer. If the smoke ends up rolling in that thick later on in July or early Aug, we'll likely bail before even leaving Bozeman. If it comes in while we're en route, we'll land and rent a car.

 

[Sinistar]

I would want a Spot and preferrably an inReach for that trip and in general for your home mountain wilderness flying.

Sounds like you planned very thoroughly, bet it works out great!

 

[Domenick]

The photo from Schmookeeg shows some potential microbursts or at least significant downdrafts caused by raindrops pulling the air down. Although transparent and tempting to just blast through--do not. Even a small squall can induce significant downdraft.

I agree Sedona is a must stop. Might also want to overfly Meteor Crater.

 

[Aye Effaar]

.
Questions

• How does this route look to pilots with more experience than me? Reasonable? Doable? Silly?
• Are there any airports that I should definitely avoid? Visit?
• If this route is something you would argue against, what alternatives would you suggest? (Notably, if we do have to bail on the flight down, she's planning on using those two days to drive from BZN to Prescott.)

First — I think you’ve created an excellent plan and would have no problem flying with someone as thorough and thoughtful as you. You plan is great & with you’re thoughts on backups & fallbacks, you know it will work for your mission.

I can offer some minor advice, but this is more personal preferences, rather than improvements.

I generally prefer fewer legs, and I’d probably try to get it down to two longer legs. I’ve made long flights in the summer, and the later afternoon legs then had to contend with buildups I could have avoided.

Next, I wonder why avoid Salt Lake? If the landing fee isn’t crazy, I make my first leg from KBZN to KSLC (with appropriate deviations for terrain). The bravos are great fun with fantastic services. Plus it’s cool to stroll past people waiting at the gate out to your own plane. You and your fiancé are certificated pilots, and have earned the right to land there.

The last thing I’d add to my flight plans is diversion transportation thinking. If you encounter weather mid trip, where can you divert to get your fiancé alternate transportation to her destatination? KSLC will offer flight options, so that’s easy, but what about further south — rental cars, busses, rail options, etc…

This is going to be a great trip. Be sure to let us all know how it goes afterwards.

 

[Jim Carpenter]

As others have said, that route looks fine. Your final leg, RIF-PRC, will be getting very hot, and very bumpy, likely all the way up to 14 or 15,000 by then. Do-able at 172 altitudes, if you both have strong stomachs. As a tweak, I might plan a longer first leg, and pack your own food/snacks, rather than think about going 'into town' for breakfast, etc., simply in the interest of completing the flight as early in the day as possible. Have fun!

 

[Sluggo63]

I agree with @Aye Effaar. I would try to do this in two legs and make the stop close to SLC. When I'm planning a flight where there might be a time constraint, I like to try and plan my stops at places where I can get airline service to my destination. It's good that you're planning an additional two days on either end. That's smart. But I'd also look at stopping in SLC (or maybe U42). That way, if something goes sideways maintenance or weather wise when you're there, your fiancée can get on a flight to PHX and then its an easy drive up. That'l take a lot of the stress/get-there-itis away.

Other than that, enjoy the adventure. I'm thinking of doing the opposite trip (DVT-BZN) in the fall (because I'm not crazy enough to do it in August ). I'm looking forward to hearing how your trip goes.

 

[allPrimes]

It's gonna be, uh, bumpy.

This time of year is called the monsoon season and is very bumpy, and lots of single cell rain showers/thunderstorms in the afternoon that are usually very avoidable.

For density altitudes, plan on flying early and possibly knocking off early. Brush up on leaning for taxi and take off.

In case I didn't mention it, it will be very bumpy. Prepare for the bumps. I mean be very prepared for the bumps.

As others have said, that route looks fine. Your final leg, RIF-PRC, will be getting very hot, and very bumpy, likely all the way up to 14 or 15,000 by then. Do-able at 172 altitudes, if you both have strong stomachs. As a tweak, I might plan a longer first leg, and pack your own food/snacks, rather than think about going 'into town' for breakfast, etc., simply in the interest of completing the flight as early in the day as possible. Have fun!

Apparently, I should plan for some bumps! We've talked it over and based upon what we're reading here, we may aim to make it over two days: leave silly early on day 1, down by noon-ish, then leave silly early on day 2, down by 9am in Prescott. Of course, that's all dependent upon all of the other things that could go wrong, including Kaiser's comment below...

Be ready with lots of escape plans, including turning around and going home.

This we've talked over. A lot of this would hopefully be mitigated by a go/no-go the night before, for weather, at least. Maintenance is good on the club planes (although one is down right now with a leaking fuel tank, which might force fiance into flying commercial, because I'm too nice of a guy to have the other plane gone for a week...) so I wouldn't expect an issue during flight, but that's why they're called emergencies.

Route looks good. We had several POA members cross the Rockies in recent weeks so what you’re planning is definitely doable. Just like others already have said, I would also caution you about your schedule. It’s definitely doable in one or two days but there are a ton of variables that might make it impossible. Other than potential MX issues, a bad break with a wildfire can make the area IFR for days if not weeks. I’m further north but even here we occasionally have wild fire smoke that grounds us for several days so bring your credit card and if flying is a no-go, just rent a car from your last landing spot to make the date.

Yeah, we talk often about the "time to spare, go by air" saying that's been mentioned a few times. I've even declined a trip to visit her family because of potential weather issues; we decided to fly commercial, mostly because her mother likely would have been seriously disappointed if we had had to cancel the trip.

I would want a Spot and preferrably an inReach for that trip and in general for your home mountain wilderness flying.

The club has a Spot (with subscription) that lives in each plane and I carry a personal inReach (that I received as a gift) on my person whenever I fly. It's already come in handy for communication with fiance when I was out in some central MT backcountry last month.

I generally prefer fewer legs, and I’d probably try to get it down to two longer legs. I’ve made long flights in the summer, and the later afternoon legs then had to contend with buildups I could have avoided.

Next, I wonder why avoid Salt Lake? If the landing fee isn’t crazy, I make my first leg from KBZN to KSLC (with appropriate deviations for terrain). The bravos are great fun with fantastic services. Plus it’s cool to stroll past people waiting at the gate out to your own plane. You and your fiancé are certificated pilots, and have earned the right to land there.

The last thing I’d add to my flight plans is diversion transportation thinking. If you encounter weather mid trip, where can you divert to get your fiancé alternate transportation to her destatination? KSLC will offer flight options, so that’s easy, but what about further south — rental cars, busses, rail options, etc…

Based on all the comments about bumps in the afternoons, I think we're going to aim for two days, with the first being down by mid-day, and the second down by late morning. Of course, all plans could go out the window, depending, but as of now, that's where my thinking is.

I hadn't considered landing at SLC. There is a GA side to it but I don't think I'd have the same experience as walking past people at their gates! Might have to reconsider our first leg because this would be neat. We've also identified two airports in southern UT that have rental car services available.

Thanks for the comments everyone! A great learning opportunity!

 

[Tantalum]

Old thread, but curious if OP ever did the trip? And if so, write up?

 

[John Spartan]

Just a FYI, there is NOTHING at Tuba City except for a desolate building that is locked up with chains the last time I was there. It is not close to town. No enclosed bathrooms, but lots of rocks.....

This time of year is called the monsoon season and is very bumpy, and lots of single cell rain showers/thunderstorms in the afternoon that are usually very avoidable.

For density altitudes, plan on flying early and possibly knocking off early. Brush up on leaning for taxi and take off.

No problem on MOA's. Since your on flight following ask them about restricted areas. Most of the time I was able to fly through restricted areas.

Prepare for interruptions in your schedule and be ready to use those alternative plans.

In case I didn't mention it, it will be very bumpy. Prepare for the bumps. I mean be very prepared for the bumps.

An actual Tuba is significantly more interesting.

 

[Zeldman]

An actual Tuba is significantly more interesting.

I embarrassingly admit that I played a tuba in the 7th and 8th grade band...

 

[Domenick]

I embarrassingly admit I played an accordion in elementary school.

 

[John Spartan]

I embarrassingly admit I played an accordion in elementary school.

Some kids only dream of being Weird Al. Others dare to live it.

 

[Jim Carpenter]

Way off subject, but funny anyway:

 

[John Spartan]

Way off subject, but funny anyway:

Why would they show a Telecaster tho? Lol
He was a Stratocaster guy. The commercial is pretty hilarious though.

 

[FlyingElvii]

First — I think you’ve created an excellent plan and would have no problem flying with someone as thorough and thoughtful as you. You plan is great & with you’re thoughts on backups & fallbacks, you know it will work for your mission.

I can offer some minor advice, but this is more personal preferences, rather than improvements.

I generally prefer fewer legs, and I’d probably try to get it down to two longer legs. I’ve made long flights in the summer, and the later afternoon legs then had to contend with buildups I could have avoided.

Next, I wonder why avoid Salt Lake? If the landing fee isn’t crazy, I make my first leg from KBZN to KSLC (with appropriate deviations for terrain). The bravos are great fun with fantastic services. Plus it’s cool to stroll past people waiting at the gate out to your own plane. You and your fiancé are certificated pilots, and have earned the right to land there.

The last thing I’d add to my flight plans is diversion transportation thinking. If you encounter weather mid trip, where can you divert to get your fiancé alternate transportation to her destatination? KSLC will offer flight options, so that’s easy, but what about further south — rental cars, busses, rail options, etc…

This is going to be a great trip. Be sure to let us all know how it goes afterwards.

Having just come through there in the last couple of weeks, I would suggest Ogden as the stop.
Ground can help set you up for the whichever happens to be the best VFR transition around SLC, east or west depending on the winds. Plenty of wide open spaces for an emergency going down the west side.

 

[iamtheari]

Why would they show a Telecaster tho? Lol
He was a Stratocaster guy. The commercial is pretty hilarious though.

I was thinking the same thing, but it looks like Pepsi trolled us but good. What year was that commercial produced? And what color was the Tele in it? And what song was playing? Now, read this article from 2021…

Why Jimi Hendrix swapped his Strat for a Fender Telecaster to record his Purple Haze solo

Roger Mayer recalls the seldom-discussed 1967 session at Olympic Studios, which saw the legendary Stratocaster player wield a Tele for his iconic leads

www.guitarworld.com

 

[Domenick]

Some kids only dream of being Weird Al. Others dare to live it.

Not sure Weird Al had picked up the accordion before I picked it up, but this local celebrity was my inspiration. Another embarrassing confession--a Swedish guy got this Italian kid onto the instrument.

Stan Boreson - Main

Stan Boreson - the king of scandivan humor, music, and parties

www.stanboreson.com

 

[allPrimes]

Old thread, but curious if OP ever did the trip? And if so, write up?

OP did NOT do the trip. The university my (then fiance) wife attends changed that meeting to an online-only function because of COVID fears. Bummer for us because we were going to make a fun trip out of it, but it negated the entirety of my (fun) flight planning exercise. We still have hopes that we'll be able to fly down there either for a function or just for a long trip sometime in the future.

An actual Tuba is significantly more interesting.

True statement. In a former life, I was a semi-professional tuba player. I'm classically trained and originally had goals of playing in a symphony orchestra but considering I had A LOT of fun in the '90s (see my DUI thread in the medical forum for additional details!), my skills waned to the point where it would have been hard to be competitive and when I went back to school (early '00s), I changed majors. I still play but rare is the instance when a local band has a need for a tuba player. These days, I mostly play guitar and flatpick bluegrass and play delta and piedmont-style blues on my own and with friends.