Flight planning app that doesn't require Apple device.

asicer said:
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the key features missing for IFR flight?
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Admittedly, a lot is about what I am used to. I've been using ForeFlight for 11 years. But, in both cases, I think the interface is clunky compared with other EFBs. With Avare, even simple IFR flight planning is a chore. You you enter and search waypoints one by one by one and there is no ability to enter airways at all. And no real rubberbanding to make up for it.. FltPlan Go does much better in this department since it's an extension of FltPlan.com, which was at the top of the flight planning field since long before EFBs existed. So it's mostly about the flow of getting around, plus I there' are still stability issues with the Android version.

They are both on my phone as IFR backups because, once I am in "ultimate" EFB backup mode (iPad failure, not app failure), all I really care about is a basic moving map and the ability to pull up an approach chart. These are good enough for that and I have both because of the stability issues I've seen in Go! and the limited functionality of Avare. My preference is Go! because of the ability to easily create or change a route, but I think Avare is more stable in a pinch.

Or maybe I'm just biased against free for an essential tool.
 
Since Avare and FltPlanGo are free, I'm wondering, how do they stay in business?
 
Palmpilot said:
Since Avare and FltPlanGo are free, I'm wondering, how do they stay in business?
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Tagging onto @asicer, Avare is open- and crowd-sourced. No "business" model. FltPlan Go! is (a) part of the larger FltPlan offering of services, some of which are paid and used by corporate pilots and some Part 135 ops, and (b) owned by Garmin (they likely bought it in part because I'd (a)) don't seem to have much problem staying in business :D)
 
GaryM said:
...Replacing 3X as often sounds like a choice...
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I mostly agree. Like any company, Apple's does a great job with their product road map giving motivation for people to want the newest release but holding back so they can get those same people wanting the next release one year later. Let's also not forget for years they slowed the CPU as battery capability diminished. Many bought new phones b/c their phones had become too slow.
 
FPK1 said:
...They give Apple devices to young children in school and suddenly they're addicted to Apple devices for life...
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You are spot on. When my kinds went to college and needed a computer, all three of them wanted Mac b/c that's what they were used to from school. These machines were each ~1K above the comparable Windows machines. I told them if they wanted the Mac they'd have to pay me 250/year for four years to make up for the cost difference. They are all dead broke yet all three of them spent 1K of their own money to stay in the Apple ecosystem. I do not fault Apple's strategy of giving their machines away to schools knowing they will recoup it in spades later. I just don't like the fact my kids don't see how they've been had.
 
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Mahneuvers said:
I mostly agree. Like any company, Apple's does a great job with their product road map giving motivation for people to want the newest release but holding back so they can get those same people wanting the next release one year later. Let's also not forget for years they slowed the CPU as battery capability diminished. Many bought new phones b/c their phones had become too slow.
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It wasn’t just Apples fault, GP kept adding features, most required extra CPU power like: glide rings, traffic, weather, dynamic mapping, etc. My old mini iPad ran 100% when using GP.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
It wasn’t just Apples fault, GP kept adding features, most required extra CPU power like: glide rings, traffic, weather, dynamic mapping, etc. My old mini iPad ran 100% when using GP.
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Very good point. GP is the only application I have found troublesome on Android. As much as I've bashed Apple, I almost broke down an bought an iPad b/c I was unhappy w/ how it was running on Android. Then I purged the application cache and the Android tablet is much more stable. I expect an "open" system to have more issues than one strictly controlled so I'm not shocked Android is less stable. However, given the huge cost difference, I'd rather give Android my business.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Why are you avoiding Apple?
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For one Apple ipads are, imo (from past experience) not reliable and are overrated, but I am also wanting something that is compatible with what devices I already have.
 
Mavalathon said:
For one Apple ipads are, imo (from past experience) not reliable and are overrated, but I am also wanting something that is compatible with what devices I already have.
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That makes sense.

You may think Apple is overrated, but the best software for what you want only runs — or only runs well — on Apple stuff.

It would be best, of course, to limit ourselves to panel-mounted avionics. But, $$$.
 
Rgbeard said:
seriously?

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad
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The cheapest thing I saw was $330. I spent $100 on my phone and $115 on my current laptop. So yeah, that's expensive. And I don't even know if the cheapest thing is capable of running the EFBs. And I could fly for 2.5 hours for that.

MooneyDriver78 said:
If you really want to save money, stop flying.
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It's not to save money. It's that if I bought all the extras like Apple and Foreflight, I couldn't afford to fly at all. I really shouldn't have ever started flying in the first place, if I strictly considered my yearly income. Thankfully, my CFIs never took my lack of ability to buy an iPad as a sign that I should quit flying.
 
eman1200 said:
I’d say that’s a picture of a stick, not an actual stick.
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Al long as you’re going all Zen on us

I don’t see a stick. I see the many paths and choices in life one can take
 
SkyChaser said:
The cheapest thing I saw was $330. I spent $100 on my phone and $115 on my current laptop. So yeah, that's expensive. And I don't even know if the cheapest thing is capable of running the EFBs. And I could fly for 2.5 hours for that.



It's not to save money. It's that if I bought all the extras like Apple and Foreflight, I couldn't afford to fly at all. I really shouldn't have ever started flying in the first place, if I strictly considered my yearly income. Thankfully, my CFIs never took my lack of ability to buy an iPad as a sign that I should quit flying.
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I’m sure glad you didn’t try to afford flying when paper charts were "the thing". they are/were expensive and going out of date constantly. and it seems one always needed a snippet of another one no matter where you were going
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m sure glad you didn’t try to afford flying when paper charts were "the thing". they are/were expensive and going out of date constantly. and it seems one always needed a snippet of another one no matter where you were going
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Ahhh, but then you had free wrapping paper...
 
The “free” EFBs aren’t worth more than a satchel of magic beans, which is why they’re, well, free.

ForeFlight is overpriced imho, and Garmin Pilot does everything one can need for much less. An iPad is also an investment, albeit a crappy one, but nonetheless an investment. If you buy the latest model, you’re good to go for 5-7yrs at least. Most folks that I know of who bought an iPad for flying haven’t looked back.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m sure glad you didn’t try to afford flying when paper charts were "the thing". they are/were expensive and going out of date constantly. and it seems one always needed a snippet of another one no matter where you were going
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Well, I couldn't afford to fly beyond a 4-sectional area, anyway, so it would have taken me 10 sectional cycles before I would have paid for the cheapest ipad, and that doesn't even include a paid sub to anywhere. I get that it sounds stupid, but if you ever try to fly, pay down student loans, and live off of $26k, you might actually understand why fancy electronics are simply not possible to buy.
 
SkyChaser said:
Well, I couldn't afford to fly beyond a 4-sectional area, anyway, so it would have taken me 10 sectional cycles before I would have paid for the cheapest ipad, and that doesn't even include a paid sub to anywhere. I get that it sounds stupid, but if you ever try to fly, pay down student loans, and live off of $26k, you might actually understand why fancy electronics are simply not possible to buy.
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Yes, but you’re in a much better situation now, and once @2-Bit Speed gets that second job you’ll be able to fly all you like! ;)
 
I use Avare. I run it on a dedicated Samsung A7 Lite (8.7", $124). I also have it loaded on my Samsung S10e phone (refurbished, $138). As a VFR Student Pilot, it does what I need. Since the flight school updated their ADSB to the latest Stratus 3, I can use it for ADSB-in now. The only issue I've ever had is when my tablet holder failed and I set the tablet up on the glare shield in the middle of summer. It shut down on high temperatures, but recovered in 5 minutes when placed on the back seat and in the shade. The tablet does not have any extraneous apps loaded on it, and I deleted all of the bloatware that I could after recieving it.
 
I am VFR only, and use iFly, Weathermeister and Windy for flight planning, with AirNav for FBO info.
I use iFly in the air running on two devices - an iFly740 dedicated device and a Samsung Tab A on the other side of the panel. One is portrait and the other landscape. I really like the old sectional moving as I fly.
I first used and iPad mini (2012 vintage) but it overheated during almost every flight, so I gave it to the Grand kids and bought the 740.
 
Another one in the Avare camp here. Entering a route is easy, just long press on an airport or navaid on the map and you can add it to the plan, and you can rubberband it to adjust.

At home, I plan with google earth with a sectional chart layer.
 
Many people have an Android phone and an iPad, or vice versa. IMO any serious app should be available on both platforms. Foreflight's refusal in that area is aggravating.

OTOH Garmin is as bad or worse than Apple for trying to lock you into their ecosystem with proprietary formats and standards.

I have been using IflyGPS, but it has locked up on me twice in flight, once during a difficult situation.

Seriously thinking about going to a hardwired Aera for the RS 232 functionality.
 
I'm an Avare fan.
It does everything I need in my little bug smasher.
It will even connect to ADSB.
If I had ADSB.
If I had electricity.
OK, in the interests of full disclosure I carry a bucket of electricity with me when I fly to keep the radio and phone charged up if I need it.
But not real electricity.
 
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