Flight Plan Filed -- Told to Expect Different Route

aftCG said:
To the OP:
Since you're using Foreflight, if you desire to read/hear the words "cleared as filled" then learn to use the Suggested Routes feature.
Pick one that matches the type of aircraft you fly (eg turboprop, piston etc) and file.

Goes straight through, like corn through a cow.
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Ding Ding - it usually works in our little dog-patch.. but lately we have had a thick marine layer and I am thinking ATC is pretty busy along the coast.

The other day, even though it was clear at KCMA, ATC was not accepting any "practice approaches."
 
aftCG said:
To the OP:
Since you're using Foreflight, if you desire to read/hear the words "cleared as filled" then learn to use the Suggested Routes feature.
Pick one that matches the type of aircraft you fly (eg turboprop, piston etc) and file.

Goes straight through, like corn through a cow.
Click to expand...
That's what I did for the flight home, and still got a different updated route.
 
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File what you want.
Fly what you get.
Log what you need.

My first instrument XC work, I file, everything regurgitates fine. Call for clearance. They give me a completely different route. Fine, put that into the GPS. Take off, call approach. "We have a new route for you." Oh fun. Ready to copy. I write it down. Hey, this is what I filed initially.

Later, I'm up at OWD (south of Boston). File a rather straightforward (to me) route down V3 to MRB and then south to CJR. Again the computer accepts it, the regurgitated route comes back the same. Call up ground to OWD. He's about to read me the clearance and then says, no this isn't going to work. Hold on. A few minutes later he asked if I got my pencil ready and I get what I know to be the standard route... zig zagging through a few fixes, down the middle of Long Island Sound, pick up a Radial of JFK. Go straight over JFK, pick up V16 down to Delaware and then head direct to IAD (mind you they give me the airport NOT the AML VOR that sis on it) and then home.

Of course, there's always ROA who tells me in the middle of the flight they have a new routing, advise when ready to copy. I tell them I'm ready and they clear me direct CJR. I needed to copy that?
 
1. As far as i Know, you will almost NEVER get the route you request, get used to it.

2. You will almost NEVER fly the given route. seriously, sometimes i feel like i'm wasting ink copying down the complete clearance

from my experience, outside the busiest airspace and even then outside the busiest of times, atc does every thing in their power to get you on your way and out of their hair.

example, flying from kfws to kdwh, i'll get a clearance containing some common routing and a SID, most of the time i don't make it off the runway before they give direct kdwh
 
You will learn after the first dozen IFR trips not to put your full route into the GPS, only the initial fix and maybe one beyond that, because it is likely going to change anyway. There is plenty of time once your make the initial climb to cruise altitude to enter your updated clearance into the magic box. If you are lucky at some point you just get cleared to destination direct.
 
chemgeek said:
You will learn after the first dozen IFR trips not to put your full route into the GPS, only the initial fix and maybe one beyond that, because it is likely going to change anyway. There is plenty of time once your make the initial climb to cruise altitude to enter your updated clearance into the magic box. If you are lucky at some point you just get cleared to destination direct.
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Reasonable advice because in about 80% of the country (geographically), the initial fix and the one beyond that is the destination airport. GPS is a game-changer compared to VOR airways of the past - direct it is.

DNA along the coasts of course.
 
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So for your situation, what I would file (personal preference 100%) would be
KCMA - VNY - POM - HAPPÉ - BALDI - JISOP - KPSP

I chose BALDI and JISOP because they are fixes on the RNAV for 31L (runway with the best winds currently). I always try to file at least an initial fix in case I end up NORDO somehow. Everyone will have a decent idea of my plan. Beyond that, the routing made the attempt to avoid the LAX Bravo, then HAPPE eases the transition into the approach.

As everybody else has said, file what you want, trying to take as many things into account as you can, and then see what they give you. You can always request something different, but if you’re IFR, they tell you what you’ll be doing unless you’re an emergency aircraft. If that doesn’t suit you, you still have two options: fly VFR or don’t fly.

At the end of the day, especially if you have aspirations of commercial flying, just get use to filing IFR, flying what you’re told, and deal with the minor inconvenience. Besides, if you plan to fly for money, that extra time helps you get to your 1500 TT mark (or 1200 or 1000 as the case may be).
 
chemgeek said:
You will learn after the first dozen IFR trips not to put your full route into the GPS, only the initial fix and maybe one beyond that, because it is likely going to change anyway. There is plenty of time once your make the initial climb to cruise altitude to enter your updated clearance into the magic box. If you are lucky at some point you just get cleared to destination direct.
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So true. Especially when you have radar vectors on departure, you might get the initial fix to close to it, then I've been routed direct destination.

A couple weeks ago, my initial was cleared as filed, then I request an altitude climb from 8 to 10k due to clouds/icing and ATC did a full re-route shortly after.

Out of my last 15 IFR flights, haven't had a single one that followed the initial route lol
 
I am to the point that most times I just file Direct. Let them figure it out.

I had one where I got the expected route from FF. Had it in the iPad. Called Clearance, got a totally different clearance. Loaded it in, call Ground and was told to call Clearance. They told me that had a new clearance for me, that the one I had been given was for turbo jets (I am SE piston). Then told to wait. Then finally told to just go ahead and use the clearance I had been given.
 
Just the other day we did a flight KCMA - KLGB... filed a plan in Foreflight using the VTUP6 tech route...

On calling ground we advised of the IFR Plan on file, and to see if it would work we had added "requesting clearance as filed...

We got it, or should I say got it in a different way... they gave me "vector to the Van Nuys VOR > V186 > ADAMM > V394 > Seal Beach VOR > KLGB..." With the exception of the initial vectors to the VNY VOR this is the tech route. Not looking the gift horse in the mouth as they say, but wouldn't it have been easier to say "vector to the Van Nuys VOR then cleared as filed?" Or do they have to articulate the route to make sure the pilot understands it?

Anyway a good day of flying an really liking my avionics toys...
 
Ventucky Red said:
...wouldn't it have been easier to say "vector to the Van Nuys VOR then cleared as filed?" Or do they have to articulate the route to make sure the pilot understands it?
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I almost always get the route I filed. About half the time, I receive my clearance: "Cleared to [destination] as filed." Otherwise I receive it as read out in detail, but with no changes from what I filed. I don't know why it's sometimes one and sometimes the other. Maybe some controllers like to be explicit rather than taking a shortcut? Maybe some want the details captured on a recording in case there's an incident? I dunno.
 
Jim_R said:
I almost always get the route I filed. About half the time, I receive my clearance: "Cleared to [destination] as filed." Otherwise I receive it as read out in detail, but with no changes from what I filed. I don't know why it's sometimes one and sometimes the other. Maybe some controllers like to be explicit rather than taking a shortcut? Maybe some want the details captured on a recording in case there's an incident? I dunno.
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My experience is about the same, except in Florida. I believe they send controllers to Florida to practice giving reroutes! Sometimes it’s just simply skipping a few fixes along a V or T airway. Other times its 3 completely different routes in 30 min just to put you right back on the route you were originally on. Good practice I guess, but us Midwest pilots aren’t use to that much copying and reading back.
 
Pinecone said:
I am to the point that most times I just file Direct. Let them figure it out.
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This is what I do unless I flown a given route often enough to know what they are going to give me.
 
tsts4 said:
This is what I do unless I flown a given route often enough to know what they are going to give me.
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Foreflight, Fltplan.com, and probably plenty of others will tell you what route ATC normally assigns for a given airport pair, so it doesn't have to be a surprise, even if you personally haven't flown it before.
 
Jim_R said:
Foreflight, Fltplan.com, and probably plenty of others will tell you what route ATC normally assigns for a given airport pair, so it doesn't have to be a surprise, even if you personally haven't flown it before.
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I know, but in my experience that's not a panacea for me. I prefer not to bother anymore. I just file what I want and fly what I get--easy peezy.
 
The suggested routes feature isn't foolproof nor in the regurgitated routing from the ATC computers. I did a perfectly reasonable routing from OWD to CJR and the computer took it, and echoed it back, it even printed it on the strip at OWD tower. The controller was about to read it to me when he says "No, that won't work. Standby" and got me the preferred route (zigzags through several fixes, down the middle of LI sound, intercepts a radial of the JFK VOR, straight over JFK and pick up V16 ...
 
tsts4 said:
I know, but in my experience that's not a panacea for me. I prefer not to bother anymore. I just file what I want and fly what I get--easy peezy.
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flyingron said:
The suggested routes feature isn't foolproof nor in the regurgitated routing from the ATC computers.
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Sure, nothing's 100% foolproof. But if you can see that 15 PA28s and C172s got the exact same routing in the last 90 days and no other routes were assigned, you can probably safely wager $5 that's what you're gonna get in your PA28 or C172, too.

As always, YMMV.
 
flyingron said:
"No, that won't work. Standby"
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It cracks me up every time I hear that one. I had that experience at HPN when he said that, worked the computers and came back with a new one, I gave him the same reply as his routing required O2, and JetBlue got told to standby while he worked mine some more.

I’ve found the cleared routes feature fails when starting far away and trying to get through congested airspace, O’hare in my case. I can file, get cleared what I filed, but inevitably, I’ll get the call for ‘clearance amended, advise when ready to copy.’
 
Write clearance down read back then load first fix or two into GPS ,then use direct to button as they change your route.
 
masloki said:
I’ve found the cleared routes feature fails when starting far away and trying to get through congested airspace, O’hare in my case. I can file, get cleared what I filed, but inevitably, I’ll get the call for ‘clearance amended, advise when ready to copy.’
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Same here. The saving grace is that if you've flown the route before, the call for amendment is fairly easy to predict as is the amendment itself (usually).
 
masloki said:
I’ve found the cleared routes feature fails when starting far away and trying to get through congested airspace, O’hare in my case. I can file, get cleared what I filed, but inevitably, I’ll get the call for ‘clearance amended, advise when ready to copy.’
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Same, every time I go to Vegas I get a reroute about 50-100 miles out. Then they proceed to vector me nowhere close to that clearance. haha Those controllers down there have always been awesome though.
 
When flying to Chicago I always file what they end up giving me. Most of the time I get the “clearence amended, ready to copy” to be followed by “oh, no change” from ATC.
 
Fly in the Northeast for a couple weeks and this thread will die the natural death it should have. You're in the system - file what you want/need, see what you get, take the re-routes that happen, negotiate when you have to to.

Most of getting what you want seems to be communication skills - ATC hates GA IFR guys that can't really talk on the radio and will be much less flexible with them. Open a live ATC link while at work and listen to the guys who do it every day - it's one way to learn.
 
I flew from GON (CT) to RWI (NC) last week. Filed using GP's data on what has worked previously. Got the text from Leidos that flight plan was accepted. Called ground for clearance and was asked if I had a pen and paper - substantial re-route. While it was a lot to copy, it was basically the same route with a T airway substituted for a V airway that "no longer exists" - except it was on the up to date low IFR chart. Still no biggie.

Took off, got a vector from PVD approach because "NY wouldn't take the hand off". Pretty quickly got direct to a fix about 5 fixes downstream of the route that I had laboriously copied down. Again, no biggie as it was more direct. Hand off to next controller, "alitimiter xx.xx, advise ready to copy" - ugh. Yet another re-route, but again not anything that was a radical change for the next 200 or so miles. The end of the route added a ton of miles, but I knew not to bother to negotiate it with this controller. Got over JFK and down through NJ. Finally got the reroute I was really expecting as I was headed for a Presidential TFR. This one had 4, 5 letter fixes that were all on the airway I was already on with one more fix that took me away from the inner ring of the TFR. As I went further south I started to get changes that made everything more direct.

I'll contrast that with my flight from RWI to FIN (in FL). I filed direct with SSI VOR as the sole turnpoint to keep from going too far out over the ocean. I called the phone number for clearance at RWI, got no answer and decided to take off and pick it up in the air. Got a code from Washington Center, and asked if I really wanted to go to SSI or just direct to FIN. Roughly the same distance and NO reroutes or airways or much of anything except "switch to ABC approach on XXX.XX"

I think I'm pretty on top of ATC comms, but really hard to understand why so many changes. I really wonder who (or what computer) is changing this so much during the flight. It wasn't at all busy at my altitude and JFK was relatively quiet when I went by at about 9am.
 
As many mentioned, (Flyingron, etc.) getting out of Atlanta, I have 2 1/2 plans. The "2.5" plans are:
1 What I file (I do usually go with FF popular routes),
1.5 Because half of the time it comes back amended,
2.5 After departure and after speaking with ATL Departure for maybe 3-5 minutes, I'm handed off to the next frequency/next ATL controller, and the new friendly controller actually asks me "you want to go direct?" At which point of course I say "Yes sir". I by pass / dump all of those nice way points loaded in the GTN flight plan with a simple "Direct To' button push.
 
Steamflyer said:
Open a live ATC link while at work and listen to the guys who do it every day - it's one way to learn.
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Be sure to monitor 121.5 to hear the meows and the number of calls for those "pros" not being on the right frequency. :D
 
Pinecone said:
Be sure to monitor 121.5 to hear the meows and the number of calls for those "pros" not being on the right frequency. :D
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Yes, their main sin is occasionally being on the wrong freq. The meows are just dumb, but on average they know how to communicate, get a clearance, and work with the system to get what they want succinctly. They are pros there, and too many GA pilots are not.
 
Reading this thread, you can definitely tell who doesn't live in **** you country.
"You never get direct."
"You never get what you file."

I get what I file (which is usually direct) 95+% of the time. It's been probably 10 years since I got an advise ready to copy. And that one was a glitch that had me going over a fix I already had passed 100nm ago.
 
There's a world of difference between the sticks and the megalopolis areas. NY and BOS send he hither and yon. Chicago always wants me to go to KELSI.
Coming back in the midwest (other than Chicago), I call for a popup and get this:

27K: Looks like its clouding up ahead, can I get IFR at 7000.
ATC: Navion 5327K is cleared to Culpeper via Direct, climb and maintain 7000.
 
Missed this thread. I'm in the northeast and a favorite flight for me is like bed to ack or somewhere on the cape. Occasionally I will get routed 20 miles over the ocean, usually when I ask for the clearance. I just tell the controller that won't work for me, I want to stay over land as long as possible. Usually they will give me another route, or vectors. I've never been refused, occasionally it becomes a longer than necessary flight, but I figure that out as I go along. You have to speak up.

As far as filing direct, I did that from an airfield in Georgia to somewhere in Maryland. I forget the exact airports, but I departed a delta. When I got the clearance, the guy read it back as filed, I was surprised, but happy about it too. I took off, flying direct, got handed off from the first controller, the second guy called me and said, I just looked at your flight plan, did you file direct? I said yes, he laughed and said, that will never work, stand by. He came back and gave me a long route change, pretty much direct, but on airways and to waypoints. Short flights it can work, but longer flights, it hasn't happened for me yet.
 
PaulS said:
As far as filing direct, I did that from an airfield in Georgia to somewhere in Maryland. I forget the exact airports, but I departed a delta. When I got the clearance, the guy read it back as filed, I was surprised, but happy about it too. I took off, flying direct, got handed off from the first controller, the second guy called me and said, I just looked at your flight plan, did you file direct? I said yes, he laughed and said, that will never work, stand by. He came back and gave me a long route change, pretty much direct, but on airways and to waypoints. Short flights it can work, but longer flights, it hasn't happened for me yet.
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I filed direct KBJC (west side of Denver) to home (0W3, NE Maryland).

My clearance was Plains One Departure, Akron Transition, Direct

About a 1300 mile leg direct. :D
 
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