Flight following - not sure why I didn't use it before

[Velocity173]

I was under the impression that "request" was helpful so the controller didn't spit out their coffee and start reviewing their strips to say, ".....SHOULD I know who this guy is?". The VFR part is implied.

Regarding MOAs, definitely better to be talking to them. There are times where a vertical block is reserved that's much bigger than they need. If they know what your transit plan is then they can check with the military traffic as to whether that'll work. Speaking up doesn't result in you being forced to divert. I've made the call, learned it was hot and was asked if I could drop or climb by 1-2k to allow the operation to continue. Not a biggie, and I'd much rather know the training ops weren't disrupted by me pulling a Leroy Jenkins into the airspace.

That’s if the controlling agency will work you through an active MOA. Some don’t want the responsibility and will terminate if you chose to go through. Don’t really agree with that myself but whatever.

 

[Daleandee]

That’s if the controlling agency will work you through an active MOA. Some don’t want the responsibility and will terminate if you chose to go through. Don’t really agree with that myself but whatever.

If the MOA is hot I'm staying out of it. All of the stuff they are playing with in there is much larger and faster than me ...

 

[midwestpa24]

If the MOA is hot I'm staying out of it. All of the stuff they are playing with in there is much larger and faster than me ...

I may do it, with coordination. I've seen a MOA go active from 4,000 to FL310, but all they are actually doing that day is refueling up in the flight levels.

 

[Daleandee]

I may do it, with coordination. I've seen a MOA go active from 4,000 to FL310, but all they are actually doing that day is refueling up in the flight levels.

You make a good point and I'd likely go through in such a scenario. But in most of my flight planning I've learned that small diversions don't add much time to the overall flight time.

 

[luvflyin]

I was under the impression that "request" was helpful so the controller didn't spit out their coffee and start reviewing their strips to say, ".....SHOULD I know who this guy is?". The VFR part is implied.

Regarding MOAs, definitely better to be talking to them. There are times where a vertical block is reserved that's much bigger than they need. If they know what your transit plan is then they can check with the military traffic as to whether that'll work. Speaking up doesn't result in you being forced to divert. I've made the call, learned it was hot and was asked if I could drop or climb by 1-2k to allow the operation to continue. Not a biggie, and I'd much rather know the training ops weren't disrupted by me pulling a Leroy Jenkins into the airspace.

Saying VFR request can be helpful to identify as a pop-up. It's not uncommon for planes already under their control to have a request.

 

[IK04]

I was given fast movers as traffic once while in a MOA and the participating aircraft called me on "Air Force secure," which is guard (121.5) ha ha.

They asked if it was OK for them to do some radar intercepts on me and I said "sure!"

I'm not sure which facility covers that part of North Carolina, but they must have gotten a cool show on their scope...

 

[AggieMike88]

This is only an observation, but since the widespread use of ADS-B that doesn't seem to be as bad anymore. I've called up for FF recently "Center, N12345" and had them respond, "N12345 are you off XYZ climbing through 4500?" I've also never been asked my aircraft type since installing ADS-B. I'm assuming its because ATC now has access to all of that information.

I have experienced this a few times on NE side of Dallas.

But it’s also in a Bonanza that flies daily and is in out of that sectors multiple times

I think the top level controllers are good at remembering the tail#’s they work frequently and recal the details they need to enter into the system.

 

[luvflyin]

I was given fast movers as traffic once while in a MOA and the participating aircraft called me on "Air Force secure," which is guard (121.5) ha ha.

They asked if it was OK for them to do some radar intercepts on me and I said "sure!"

I'm not sure which facility covers that part of North Carolina, but they must have gotten a cool show on their scope...

Didja start doing evasive maneuvers?

 

[Warmi]

I don't understand why anyone would *not* use it. It's free, and fantastic.

I like to enjoy myself and part of it is not having to remember to talk or report to anyone unless I absolutely have to … with ADSB around FF is just not worth the hassle to me.

 

[caverjamie]

I'm a podunk country vfr only guy and fly out of a non-atc controlled airport. Mainly because of that I've conditioned myself not to use ATC unless necessary. I'm not "frightened" of talking with controllers, probably apprehensive is a better term. I can do it if I need to, but it's not what I consider a fun thing to do, which is why I fly in the first place. I would take a class D over a very busy "pilot controlled" airport any day though. I've also never spoken to a center controller, only ever approach controllers during student training in the practice area near a class C. I do typically monitor approach when I am near a C or B. Sometime I'm going to break that streak and actually get flight following on one of my infrequent cross country trips. Who knows, maybe it will become habit.

I am still unclear about ADS-B capabilities also - whether I can see primary radar returns from ATC if I have an uplink from a ground station. I'm guessing not, because every target I can recall seeing on the screen has had an N number and altitude data associated with it. I am clear that my air-to-air is only going to be transponder equipped aircraft.

 

[WDD]

I think you answered your question. What you see in the cockpit is other ADSB airplanes pinging out their information. You don't see ATC radar. Thus, you'll not see on your I Pad a non electrical system what not (old Piper Cub?).

 

[Daleandee]

You don't see ATC radar. Thus, you'll not see on your I Pad a non electrical system what not (old Piper Cub?).

Another great reason to use flight following. They might see and warn us of traffic we don't see looking out the window that's also not showing on the ADS-B display ...

 

[WDD]

For me it’s the “turn 10 left - there someone I’m not talking to who’s at your 2:00 same altitude”.

 

[Radar Contact]

I'm a podunk country vfr only guy and fly out of a non-atc controlled airport. Mainly because of that I've conditioned myself not to use ATC unless necessary. I'm not "frightened" of talking with controllers, probably apprehensive is a better term. I can do it if I need to, but it's not what I consider a fun thing to do, which is why I fly in the first place. I would take a class D over a very busy "pilot controlled" airport any day though. I've also never spoken to a center controller, only ever approach controllers during student training in the practice area near a class C. I do typically monitor approach when I am near a C or B. Sometime I'm going to break that streak and actually get flight following on one of my infrequent cross country trips. Who knows, maybe it will become habit.

I am still unclear about ADS-B capabilities also - whether I can see primary radar returns from ATC if I have an uplink from a ground station. I'm guessing not, because every target I can recall seeing on the screen has had an N number and altitude data associated with it. I am clear that my air-to-air is only going to be transponder equipped aircraft.

No, ads-b won’t show a primary. I enjoy ATC issuing me those calls.

Another benefit is, if you lost the engine you’d already be talking to them and they’d have S&R on the way before your questionable ELT could find your position. Could make the difference in life or death.

 

[Ed Haywood]

How often do you see a Cub at typical XC cruising altitudes, and when you do, how hard would it be to avoid at 60 mph?

I regularly do aerobatics in a fairly busy area under a Class B shelf. I wonder how many other pilots are watching me on their fishbox and wondering WTH is up with my altitude? "Dammit, 5 seconds ago he was 1000' below me, and now he is level!?"

 

[Radar Contact]

How often do you see a Cub at typical XC cruising altitudes, and when you do, how hard would it be to avoid at 60 mph?

I regularly do aerobatics in a fairly busy area under a Class B shelf. I wonder how many other pilots are watching me on their fishbox and wondering WTH is up with my altitude? "Dammit, 5 seconds ago he was 1000' below me, and now he is level!?"

And if someone is on FF I’ve probably seen your erratic altitude. I’d vector that VFR away from you to ensure the targets don’t merge.

 

[Rich Holt]

I’d vector that VFR away from you to ensure the targets don’t merge.

Yeah, furballs suck.

 

[Marshall]

I was standing in security line at IAD Dulles airport , just got my private and must have been talking a little to loud . I was explaining to my wife about FF, not that she was interested. When a guy got out of line and approached me. He says , I could not help overhear your conversation. I am a Air Traffic Controller at Potomac. ( our area) Please tell your fellow pilots we certainly appreciate when you use FF. I say " When we are flying VFR and ask for FF we feel that we are asking a favor of your time.
The Controller says that is incorrect. When we have a plan laid out and someone cuts through it and we are not talking, and we have no idea where you are headed, it increases our work load. We prefer to know where you are going, and talking to you so everything works together. So yes we prefer that you use FF. I was a low time fresh private pilot, this was weird coming fresh out of the mouth of ATC. So that's when I became a fan of ATC and FF. Now that I fly IFR, they definitely are your buddy up there.
Also FF or IFR ATC is not your mother, they cannot read your mind, if you don't like your altitude, heading or anything , request something different , they almost always grant it !

 

[drummer4468]

I was given fast movers as traffic once while in a MOA and the participating aircraft called me on "Air Force secure," which is guard (121.5) ha ha.

They asked if it was OK for them to do some radar intercepts on me and I said "sure!"

I'm not sure which facility covers that part of North Carolina, but they must have gotten a cool show on their scope...

That’s actually awesome lol, the only time I wouldn’t soil my shorts seeing an F-18 on my wing.

Didja start doing evasive maneuvers?

*starts shoveling sparklers and craft glitter out the window as I bank a whopping 60degrees*

 

[bluerooster]

I use FF most of the time on long flights. And on some shorter ones. case in point: I can get to Aircraft Spruce in about 30 min or less if I'm on FF, otherwise I have to go around the ATL class B which is HUGE. On FF I can fly right over Hartsfield, at 4500 pretty much straight to my destination.

 

[asicer]

On FF I can fly right over Hartsfield, at 4500 pretty much straight to my destination.

One should not confuse FF with a Bravo clearance, otherwise there could be consequences.

 

[bluerooster]

One should not confuse FF with a Bravo clearance, otherwise there could be consequences.

True, but easier to get clearance while already on FF, than just calling up ATL Approach and asking for it.

 

[Mongoose Aviator]

He says , I could not help overhear your conversation. I am a Air Traffic Controller at Potomac. ( our area) Please tell your fellow pilots we certainly appreciate when you use FF.

Agreed. Potomac ATC is great. First time flying in there, I told the controller this was my first time solo with Potomac and I was nervous. ha ha ha. He said not to worry and they would take care of me and as long as I was talking to them everything was going to be OK. He said they just don't like it when people are not talking to them. Presumably he meant VFR traffic busting the SFRA or busting Bravo and not on the radio with ATC. It was a good experience.

A couple times I had questions on how to do something in the Potomac area so after on the ground, called them up on the phone, asked if they had a couple minutes then discussed my question. Potomac ATC is really super helpful.

I fly the Potomac/IAD area frequently as VFR with FF then into the SFRA sometimes with Bravo clearance. Even outside the SFRA and outside Bravo, it is not uncommon at all for ATC to ask me to fly a different altitude or heading to allow heavy traffic for IAD to proceed without those other large aircraft having to alter their flight. If ATC is not busy then they give me Bravo clearance. If too busy for Bravo then I fly under Bravo but still with FF. Underneath the IAD Bravo shelves gets quite congested with other VFR aircraft. When VFR traffic gets close, it is much easier if we are both on FF with the same controller. Usually no flight change is needed as typically one or the other of us can see the other and if a change is needed then we all know who is doing what. If the other aircraft is NOT on FF and I can not visually see it then I have to change my flight path ASAP to avoid that which I am not visually seeing. Being under Bravo makes this quite restrictive. One time the best route to avoid an aircraft was straight up into Bravo. While climbing, I asked quickly for Bravo clearance and received it before I hit the Bravo shelf. I was already on FF so the controller already had me on radar, knew who I was and where I was and why I was asking which made the Bravo request and clearance very quick.

Traveling past the New York Bravo area on VFR FF, I usually fly around North of LGA Bravo. It is not uncommon for NY ATC to drop me from FF and tell me to squawk 1200. In that case, I continue to monitor the App freq, wait 20 mins and if it seems calmer then call back and ask for FF again. Usually I get it back.

I am a big fan of ATC FF.

 

[Lowflynjack]

I think the top level controllers are good at remembering the tail#’s they work frequently and recal the details they need to enter into the system.

Around here they know I'm going to fly in circles, very close to another airplane, for about an hour close to sunrise or sunset!!

 

[Chris Mixon]

Old thread, but wanted to get some feedback.

I use FF consistently when I am going direct to a destination, but sometimes it's easier to deviate around a Bravo. For example, I am going IYA to T82, which is almost a direct shot through the center of the Houston Bravo, but going south or north only adds about 5 min and simplifies having to descend and navigate the Houston VFR corridor.

I don't FF when I am taking a convenience routing because, as I understand, we get a VFR strip with AC type, altitude, and destination with the assigned Squawk code so the system can trigger handoffs as we change sectors, but there is no support for a non-direct VFR route so we break the handoff automation, become harder to coordinate and make life harder for some busy ATC folks.

How do y'all handle it when taking an indirect route, but still want to access FF?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[N1120A]

Old thread, but wanted to get some feedback.

I use FF consistently when I am going direct to a destination, but sometimes it's easier to deviate around a Bravo. For example, I am going IYA to T82, which is almost a direct shot through the center of the Houston Bravo, but going south or north only adds about 5 min and simplifies having to descend and navigate the Houston VFR corridor.

I don't FF when I am taking a convenience routing because, as I understand, we get a VFR strip with AC type, altitude, and destination with the assigned Squawk code so the system can trigger handoffs as we change sectors, but there is no support for a non-direct VFR route so we break the handoff automation, become harder to coordinate and make life harder for some busy ATC folks.

How do y'all handle it when taking an indirect route, but still want to access FF?

Thanks,

Chris

Honestly, I can't tell you the last time I flew a completely direct route on FF. Between airspace rules and terrain in the places I fly VFR, direct isn't happening. As far as I know, the handoffs work similarly to an IFR handoff and there's not really an issue.

 

[WDD]

Might be overthinking it a bit. Just get FF. Fly the route you want

 

[flyingron]

I never used it until I started being based at IAD and had to talk to ATC on every flight. After that, it became commonplace even after I moved out of the class B.

 

[Lindberg]

Old thread, but wanted to get some feedback.

I use FF consistently when I am going direct to a destination, but sometimes it's easier to deviate around a Bravo. For example, I am going IYA to T82, which is almost a direct shot through the center of the Houston Bravo, but going south or north only adds about 5 min and simplifies having to descend and navigate the Houston VFR corridor.

I don't FF when I am taking a convenience routing because, as I understand, we get a VFR strip with AC type, altitude, and destination with the assigned Squawk code so the system can trigger handoffs as we change sectors, but there is no support for a non-direct VFR route so we break the handoff automation, become harder to coordinate and make life harder for some busy ATC folks.

How do y'all handle it when taking an indirect route, but still want to access FF?

Thanks,

Chris

You can fly any route you want while on FF and they usually don't care; just inform them. When you get handed off, they'll ask your route if they care or it isn't obvious. The exception is if they instruct you to fly a certain route, then you have to do that. If the Houston B is like the DFW B, you're likely to get a much less desirable route than you could fly on your own remaining clear of the B, and rarely get a route right through the B. But as in all things, YMMV.

 

[Velocity173]

Old thread, but wanted to get some feedback.

I use FF consistently when I am going direct to a destination, but sometimes it's easier to deviate around a Bravo. For example, I am going IYA to T82, which is almost a direct shot through the center of the Houston Bravo, but going south or north only adds about 5 min and simplifies having to descend and navigate the Houston VFR corridor.

I don't FF when I am taking a convenience routing because, as I understand, we get a VFR strip with AC type, altitude, and destination with the assigned Squawk code so the system can trigger handoffs as we change sectors, but there is no support for a non-direct VFR route so we break the handoff automation, become harder to coordinate and make life harder for some busy ATC folks.

How do y'all handle it when taking an indirect route, but still want to access FF?

Thanks,

Chris

There’s no difference in service with direct vs non direct. The NAS computer predicts where the aircraft will be and assigns a strip to the agencies along that route.

If anything, direct can cause a problem with automation. What can happen is, without a fix or airway in a receiving controllers airspace, the computer might calculate the aircraft passing outside that controllers airspace and not send them a strip. Happens a lot on the coast where an aircraft is cutting a corner direct and they’re barely penetrating an approach airspace. It’s not that much of a pain for the controller though. All the transferring controller has to do is amend the position of the aircraft in the next controller’s airspace and the computer will immediately send them a strip and now allowing an automated handoff. Takes about 10 seconds to do.

 

[Half Fast]

Just talk to them. No big deal.

When I brought my Beech home after purchasing it, the plane was fresh out of annual and apart from a short post-maintenance test flight, largely unfamiliar to me. Out of caution, I laid out a route that strung together airports along the way so that I was never more than about 15 minutes from one. That caused me to fly further east than a direct route to the south would have. Naturally I used FF all the way.

So, after one particular handoff, while I was on an eastward heading, the controller (Jax center, I think) said, "Say destination." I told him "Winter Haven GIF," and after a moment he came back with, "Uh, just how were you planning to get there?" I told him, "Don't worry, I'll be turning south in five minutes." He said, "Roger," I advised him when I was beginning my turn, and all was right with the world.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Old thread, but wanted to get some feedback.

I use FF consistently when I am going direct to a destination, but sometimes it's easier to deviate around a Bravo. For example, I am going IYA to T82, which is almost a direct shot through the center of the Houston Bravo, but going south or north only adds about 5 min and simplifies having to descend and navigate the Houston VFR corridor.

I don't FF when I am taking a convenience routing because, as I understand, we get a VFR strip with AC type, altitude, and destination with the assigned Squawk code so the system can trigger handoffs as we change sectors, but there is no support for a non-direct VFR route so we break the handoff automation, become harder to coordinate and make life harder for some busy ATC folks.

How do y'all handle it when taking an indirect route, but still want to access FF?

Thanks,

Chris

With VFR flight following I'm responsible for navigation (unless they temporarily give me a vector to fly).

And on FF in Chicago as long as I stay outside of the bravo (and sometimes the charlie) they're fine. If they have any questions about what I'm doing they ask and then I'll tell them "flying south to ABC then I'll turn direct to XYZ". That answer works 98% of the time. On the rare occasion they've asked me about circuitous path I just tell them "that's my next waypoint" and then there's no further questions .

 

[Wrench978]

Old thread, but wanted to get some feedback.

I use FF consistently when I am going direct to a destination, but sometimes it's easier to deviate around a Bravo. For example, I am going IYA to T82, which is almost a direct shot through the center of the Houston Bravo, but going south or north only adds about 5 min and simplifies having to descend and navigate the Houston VFR corridor.

I don't FF when I am taking a convenience routing because, as I understand, we get a VFR strip with AC type, altitude, and destination with the assigned Squawk code so the system can trigger handoffs as we change sectors, but there is no support for a non-direct VFR route so we break the handoff automation, become harder to coordinate and make life harder for some busy ATC folks.

How do y'all handle it when taking an indirect route, but still want to access FF?

Thanks,

Chris

As others have mentioned, don’t overthink it. I can all but guarantee that the controllers working you know exactly what you’re doing when they see you flying a route that keeps you clear of the bravo. Don’t worry about what that means for the controller as far as workload (I say this as a controller). That’s why we make decent money. If you want to be helpful, maybe when you first check on, mention that you’ll be staying south (or north) of the bravo, but other than that, don’t worry about it.

 

[Shawn]

Remember, Flight Following is not some kind of flight plan you must follow (absent instructions otherwise)...you are free to fly where you want (within regs). If ATC asks or says "say intentions" or "route of flight" if not direct enter enter that is just so they know what to expect from ya to anticipate traffic and handoffs...but you can fly lootpy loops all the way to destination while diverting to the coast for some sight seeing if you so desire while on FF. Again, they just wanna know what to expect.

And for the love of God...do not respond to "route of flight" request with ABC>XYZ VOR>Podunk>Middle of Nowhere>Please stop>Controller hitting heir head on the desk>SMG>Direct...They don't care THAT much...they just want general direction of flight. "Heading West then up the Coast, Skylane 345"...or "Duck around Bravo then direct"

SoCal TRACON was also on a push to educate CFIs to teach their students to use FF...they WANT to be talking to VFR pilots.

If I leave the pattern, I am on Flight Following for any flight...but I enjoy that

 

[Half Fast]

They don't care THAT much...they just want general direction of flight. "Heading West then up the Coast, Skylane 345"...or "Duck around Bravo then direct"

Yeah, you'd think that, and it's true most of the time, but....

Not long ago I was on FF, headed south from the Gainesville, FL area, and Jax handed me off to Orlando approach. The approach controller wanted to know my path, so I told her I was sight-seeing, would stay west of the bravo and wander a bit, making my way south to KGIF. Immediate response: "Radar services terminated, squawk VFR." I guess she'd rather have me wandering around her airspace without talking to me.

Seemed pretty inhospitable. And dumb.

 

[Zeldman]

I quit using FF when I was supposedly on FF, and off to my right side I spotted what looked like a C-130 same altitude and same direction about 6-7 miles away. Daytime and clear blue skies, vis greater than 50 miles, I was at 14.5 MSL.

I noticed no relative movement on my windshield so I kept a close eye on it. Turns out it was a jungle camouflage Cessna Skymaster now getting bigger in my windshield. It was NOT same direction but coming at me. I made a tight right turn and went behind it. I was close enough to see that the pilot never looked in my direction. Also never heard a word from the controller.

Here in the southwest the radios can be very quiet due to lack of traffic, and sometimes radar contact can be lost at lower altitudes.

 

[geezer]

Zeldman, suppose the facts were reversed.
You just had a blip from the engine, nd are studying the guages to find the cause.

FF calls you, advises that there is a target not squawking altitude, opposite direction, verify visual separation.

You look out, see him coming, and turn.

This version and yours are equally likely, so why not at least ask for the service, even if it is not guaranteed to cover you all the time?
Always better to have two sets of eyes out, even if the other set is often distracted by their main duty.

 

[Flyer Scott]

Flying into LOU last week FF advised of multiple targets maneuvering just east of my route. Struggled to find one of them. There were gliders I likely wouldn’t have spotted and didn’t expect in the area. Always thankful for the awesome help from ATC.