Flight Academy not willing to see instructors beforehand

[Gordon Freeman]

Hi Everyone,
Happy to join you here. I've been an avid flightsim junkie since I was a teenager, logging countless hours on the 172RG. Now that my life has settled a bit, with kids in school and more spare time on my hands, I've decided to pursue my love of flying for real.

I live in Westchester County (NY), and the nearby airport (15 min drive) - HPN - seems to have but one flight school. I was a bit surprised by the overall cost of acquiring a Private Pilot's License, but I understand the cost is largely due to aircraft time (rental, fuel, instructor fees), and varies student by student.

I'm just about to wrap-up my ground school, and am scheduling my initial few lessons with the flight academy. I really think (given the investment) that I should be able to meet (or certainly, at least choose) my flight instructor. However, the school informs me they assign one to me based on availability. However, once assigned, I will remain with that flight instructor throughout my training.

My question to you is - am I required to take my flight instructions through a certified/license school? Or can I source a flight instructor who works independently?

I'm not entirely familiar with the legality of this. To reiterate a bit differently - can I undertake the entirety of my flight training outside of an established flight school - directly with an instructor and rent an aircraft?

From a business perspective, a flight school has their overhead (employees, office space, etc.) so it would seem to be more economical to proceed with an instructor directly. I'm just not sure whether there are FAA requirements regarding who administers the education.

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to hanging out here more.

 

[Domenick]

Deleted

 

[lancie00]

Don't walk, RUN from these guys. If they won't let you meet a potential instructor, they aren't thinking about their students. As in life, not all people mesh well. You would be screwed if you got stuck with someone you didn't like.

Yes, it is perfectly legal for you to find an independent CFI and rent a plane and would probably be cheaper. Visit other airports and talk to pilots. I'm sure you'll find someone who's willing to help you.

EDIT - I almost forgot, make sure you can pass a medical before you start training too. There will be several along with a good advice on that.

 

[lancie00]

Where you train and with what school will depend on your ultimate aviation goal. Private Pilot only, train just about anywhere. Want to make aviation a career, then you'll need a flight school with proper FAA accreditations. Others will chime in.

I don't think this is quite accurate. I know of several professional pilots who didn't get their training from a flight school. I'm sure some more experienced will chime in.

 

[Challenged]

Welcome. There is no requirement to use a school, a guy working out of his pickup truck will legally work just a well, as long as he's a current certified flight instructor. I went the solo instructor route since I didn't really have any other convenient options, but it's potentially a more personal experience this way.

Also, try giving either the local airport manager a call, or maybe the local EAA chapter and see if you can source any good leads on a local CFI.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

Understood about the medical. I'm getting that done next week. Shouldn't be a problem (good vision, heart, no medical issues or medications).

With that said, can anyone recommend a resource where I might search for local CFIs who are looking for students?

Again, many thanks.

 

[Arnold]

Want to make aviation a career, then you'll need a flight school with proper FAA accreditations.

Really, what is your basis for this assertion? My experience is that all anyone cares about in this era of pilot shortage is hours and certificates. They could not care less about how you obtained them. But you might have different experience from mine.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

My wife and I run a home based business that's doing quite well at the moment, but a career in flight would be a good back-up in the long term. For now, I'm only seeking a PPL with potentially IFR rating further down the line.

 

[jordane93]

You are the customer and you should be able to pick your CFI based on your needs, personality, schedule, etc. I’d say shop around for other schools. This school seems to not have any flexibility.

 

[kath]

Yes, independent instructors are totally legal.
It's sometimes harder to find one that *also* has an aircraft for rental, because insurance for such a thing is very costly. But they exist.

As others have said, it's important to be able to "shop around" for an instructor that fits your groove, that you have good communication with. Any school that won't let you do this, is very suspicious and worrisome. I would even use the word "preposterous". Before jumping ship, make sure this is *really* their policy about instructors, and not a misunderstanding by some person behind the desk who isn't actually an instructor there.

 

[Dana]

You might want to look elsewhere than HPN. It's a busy airport with airline service, you'll be paying for a lot of hours sitting on the ground just waiting. Better to drive a bit farther to a smaller airport.

 

[MuseChaser]

You might want to look elsewhere than HPN. It's a busy airport with airline service, you'll be paying for a lot of hours sitting on the ground just waiting. Better to drive a bit farther to a smaller airport.

I would agree with that, especially in light of the OP's experience so far with this flight school. On the other hand, I did a good bit of my PPL training flying out of SYR.. smaller than HPN, but still in class C, requiring ground clearances, control tower, departure, and approach communications. Getting familiar and comfortable with that early in my training was very valuable and I'm grateful for that. Yes, it wasn't quite as efficient and a bit more expensive than just learning the physical flying of the airplane from a small field somewhere. I did that, too, and both experiences are great.

 

[EdFred]

Want to make aviation a career, then you'll need a flight school with proper FAA accreditations.

Congratulations, you just made the mostest, wrongerest statement of the month, maybe the year.

 

[cowman]

Around these parts the best way to get flight training is to call the FBOs at the airports. Usually if they don’t have their own CFIs they’ll know someone.

The thing to know is as far as the FAA is concerned it doesn’t matter if you went to a school or not just that you got all the required hours in and passed your tests. Maybe look up Part 61 vs part 141 if you are not already familiar. Two routes to a ppl- the end result is the same though.

 

[midwestpa24]

Where you train and with what school will depend on your ultimate aviation goal. Private Pilot only, train just about anywhere. Want to make aviation a career, then you'll need a flight school with proper FAA accreditations. Others will chime in.

I don't think this is quite accurate. I know of several professional pilots who didn't get their training from a flight school. I'm sure some more experienced will chime in.

Really, what is your basis for this assertion? My experience is that all anyone cares about in this era of pilot shortage is hours and certificates. They could not care less about how you obtained them. But you might have different experience from mine.

Congratulations, you just made the mostest, wrongerest statement of the month, maybe the year.

You don't need to go to a flight school in order to become a professional pilot, but it can help. If you graduate from certain accredited flight schools, you may qualify for a Restricted ATP with a lot less hours than someone who earned all their certificates individually. That means you can get hired at the regionals earlier on.

 

[luvflyin]

Hi Everyone,
Happy to join you here. I've been an avid flightsim junkie since I was a teenager, logging countless hours on the 172RG. Now that my life has settled a bit, with kids in school and more spare time on my hands, I've decided to pursue my love of flying for real.

I live in Westchester County (NY), and the nearby airport (15 min drive) - HPN - seems to have but one flight school. I was a bit surprised by the overall cost of acquiring a Private Pilot's License, but I understand the cost is largely due to aircraft time (rental, fuel, instructor fees), and varies student by student.

I'm just about to wrap-up my ground school, and am scheduling my initial few lessons with the flight academy. I really think (given the investment) that I should be able to meet (or certainly, at least choose) my flight instructor. However, the school informs me they assign one to me based on availability. However, once assigned, I will remain with that flight instructor throughout my training.

My question to you is - am I required to take my flight instructions through a certified/license school? Or can I source a flight instructor who works independently?

I'm not entirely familiar with the legality of this. To reiterate a bit differently - can I undertake the entirety of my flight training outside of an established flight school - directly with an instructor and rent an aircraft?

From a business perspective, a flight school has their overhead (employees, office space, etc.) so it would seem to be more economical to proceed with an instructor directly. I'm just not sure whether there are FAA requirements regarding who administers the education.

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to hanging out here more.

is it Performance Flight?

 

[luvflyin]

Hi Everyone,
Happy to join you here. I've been an avid flightsim junkie since I was a teenager, logging countless hours on the 172RG. Now that my life has settled a bit, with kids in school and more spare time on my hands, I've decided to pursue my love of flying for real.

I live in Westchester County (NY), and the nearby airport (15 min drive) - HPN - seems to have but one flight school. I was a bit surprised by the overall cost of acquiring a Private Pilot's License, but I understand the cost is largely due to aircraft time (rental, fuel, instructor fees), and varies student by student.

I'm just about to wrap-up my ground school, and am scheduling my initial few lessons with the flight academy. I really think (given the investment) that I should be able to meet (or certainly, at least choose) my flight instructor. However, the school informs me they assign one to me based on availability. However, once assigned, I will remain with that flight instructor throughout my training.

My question to you is - am I required to take my flight instructions through a certified/license school? Or can I source a flight instructor who works independently?

I'm not entirely familiar with the legality of this. To reiterate a bit differently - can I undertake the entirety of my flight training outside of an established flight school - directly with an instructor and rent an aircraft?

From a business perspective, a flight school has their overhead (employees, office space, etc.) so it would seem to be more economical to proceed with an instructor directly. I'm just not sure whether there are FAA requirements regarding who administers the education.

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to hanging out here more.

Call this guy, https://www.scottdyercfi.com/ see what he has to say. Go to the airport, there are restaurants there, go up to somebody who looks like a pilot and ask questions.

 

[Zeldman]

Try finding a flying club that also does instructing.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

You might want to look elsewhere than HPN. It's a busy airport with airline service, you'll be paying for a lot of hours sitting on the ground just waiting. Better to drive a bit farther to a smaller airport.

Thanks. That's a very good point, and something I've considered. HPN is an 18 minute drive for me. The only airport without scheduled commercial traffic nearby would be Greenwood Lake (4N1). That would add about an hour to my drive roundtrip, plus bridge tolls.

I'd like to become comfortable operating out of HPN, as that is where I'll most likely be flying out of with my wife on our weekend trips. However, I do understand that I'd probably get a cheaper education out of a smaller airport. Either way I'd be "wasting" time, either driving or sitting on a taxiway. I suppose it's a toss up.

 

[dmspilot]

Hi Everyone,
Happy to join you here. I've been an avid flightsim junkie since I was a teenager, logging countless hours on the 172RG. Now that my life has settled a bit, with kids in school and more spare time on my hands, I've decided to pursue my love of flying for real.

I live in Westchester County (NY), and the nearby airport (15 min drive) - HPN - seems to have but one flight school. I was a bit surprised by the overall cost of acquiring a Private Pilot's License, but I understand the cost is largely due to aircraft time (rental, fuel, instructor fees), and varies student by student.

I'm just about to wrap-up my ground school, and am scheduling my initial few lessons with the flight academy. I really think (given the investment) that I should be able to meet (or certainly, at least choose) my flight instructor. However, the school informs me they assign one to me based on availability. However, once assigned, I will remain with that flight instructor throughout my training.

My question to you is - am I required to take my flight instructions through a certified/license school? Or can I source a flight instructor who works independently?

I'm not entirely familiar with the legality of this. To reiterate a bit differently - can I undertake the entirety of my flight training outside of an established flight school - directly with an instructor and rent an aircraft?

From a business perspective, a flight school has their overhead (employees, office space, etc.) so it would seem to be more economical to proceed with an instructor directly. I'm just not sure whether there are FAA requirements regarding who administers the education.

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to hanging out here more.

Renting an airplane and sourcing an instructor separately is completely legal but unlikely as most places that will not permit instruction to occur in their aircraft with an instructor other than theirs. The only way you can usually do what you propose is to buy an airplane, find and instructor that owns or has access to an airplane, or join a flying club.

As far as not meeting instructors beforehand, or not letting you switch, that's BS. Did someone in management tell you that or some front desk secretary? If the latter, it might not even be an accurate reflection of the school's actual policies. Speak with someone higher up.

 

[Skip Miller]

You might investigate the Westchester Flying Club. It's planes are based at KHPN, and they have several instructors in the club. Check their website (www.wfc-hpn.org), go to a meeting and meet the instructors/members.

-Skip (former member)

 

[EdFred]

You don't need to go to a flight school in order to become a professional pilot, but it can help. If you graduate from certain accredited flight schools, you may qualify for a Restricted ATP with a lot less hours than someone who earned all their certificates individually. That means you can get hired at the regionals earlier on.

While true, it's not a need [requirement] as implied in the post we referenced.

 

[sarangan]

Hi Everyone,
Happy to join you here. I've been an avid flightsim junkie since I was a teenager, logging countless hours on the 172RG. Now that my life has settled a bit, with kids in school and more spare time on my hands, I've decided to pursue my love of flying for real.

I live in Westchester County (NY), and the nearby airport (15 min drive) - HPN - seems to have but one flight school. I was a bit surprised by the overall cost of acquiring a Private Pilot's License, but I understand the cost is largely due to aircraft time (rental, fuel, instructor fees), and varies student by student.

I'm just about to wrap-up my ground school, and am scheduling my initial few lessons with the flight academy. I really think (given the investment) that I should be able to meet (or certainly, at least choose) my flight instructor. However, the school informs me they assign one to me based on availability. However, once assigned, I will remain with that flight instructor throughout my training.

My question to you is - am I required to take my flight instructions through a certified/license school? Or can I source a flight instructor who works independently?

I'm not entirely familiar with the legality of this. To reiterate a bit differently - can I undertake the entirety of my flight training outside of an established flight school - directly with an instructor and rent an aircraft?

From a business perspective, a flight school has their overhead (employees, office space, etc.) so it would seem to be more economical to proceed with an instructor directly. I'm just not sure whether there are FAA requirements regarding who administers the education.

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to hanging out here more.

You should probably look at the difference between Part 61 and Part 141 training. "Established schools" tend to operate under Part 141, where the structure is fairly rigid. Part 61 is a self-structured program, and you can switch instructors, stop flying, and resume any time you want. But both will get you with exactly the same pilot certificates. It is definitely more economical to do Part 61, but Part 141 has some advantages, such as qualifying for loans etc..

 

[Gordon Freeman]

You might investigate the Westchester Flying Club. It's planes are based at KHPN, and they have several instructors in the club. Check their website (www.wfc-hpn.org), go to a meeting and meet the instructors/members.

-Skip (former member)

Thank you. I did come across their website, and would consider joining (if they're accepting new members). I'm not entirely sure of the costs of aircraft ownership, maintanance, parking at HPN, etc. A flying club (once I'm licensed) would certainly seem like an attractive and economical compromise. I've reached out to them about CFI members. Appreciate the tip.

 

[murphey]

Where you train and with what school will depend on your ultimate aviation goal. Private Pilot only, train just about anywhere. Want to make aviation a career, then you'll need a flight school with proper FAA accreditations. Others will chime in.

No, the airlines only want FAA certified instructors, not schools. However, if the student attends Part 141/142 school fewer hours are needed than the 1500 for the ATP.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I have interviewed and hired every instructor I have used from private all the way up, with the exception of instructors provided by employers.

I would not do business with a school that refused me the ability to select my own instructor.

 

[CharlieD3]

Thank you. I did come across their website, and would consider joining (if they're accepting new members). I'm not entirely sure of the costs of aircraft ownership, maintanance, parking at HPN, etc. A flying club (once I'm licensed) would certainly seem like an attractive and economical compromise. I've reached out to them about CFI members. Appreciate the tip.

A flying club is economical before and after you get your license.

Round here, I can go to an FBO within 15 minutes, and rent a172 wet for $140 an hour... + Instructor @ $45 an hour.

OR

I can join a club and rent for $80.00 an hour + instructor @ $ 45 an hour.

Bare minimum 40 hours to get ticket. Join club $450. Monthly dues $45.

You do the math, how hard do you wish to pursue the dream... Over the course of a year? (1hr a week) that will undoubtedly take more than 40 hours.

3 times a week gets you done in less time with less hours of instruction. Less $$$

More often if you can afford it... Weather WILL be an issue no matter what

Good luck.

If you join a club... Ask to see the aircraft booking calendar (in real time) before joining... You don't want aircraft availability to affect your timeline, whatever it is.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

I have interviewed and hired every instructor I have used from private all the way up, with the exception of instructors provided by employers.

I would not do business with a school that refused me the ability to select my own instructor.

Same here...and I've chosen to NOT hire a few as well.

 

[bflynn]

Don't walk, RUN from these guys. If they won't let you meet a potential instructor, they aren't thinking about their students. As in life, not all people mesh well. You would be screwed if you got stuck with someone you didn't like.

I disagree with this. There is no reason to bail on a school because they’re going to assign you an instructor.

Think of it this way - instructors are billed by the hour. How many hours of flight time should they lose because you want to interview the instructors until you find one you like? And what if everyone who came in the door did this?

go talk. Don’t put any money down, you can pay as you go. If you don’t mesh with who they give you, tell the school you want someone else.

If I had a school 15 minutes away, there is quite a bit I would do to make that work.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

I've reached out to a flight school in Danbury, CT. Their fees are about 35% less for aircraft rental than the ones at HPN. The airport also seems better suited for getting you up in the air quicker. I have an intro flight next weekend along with a meet and greet with their instructors. Hopefully all works out. Seems like an all around better fit, even if the drive to get there is longer.

Appreciate all your input!

 

[Clip4]

Hi Everyone,
Happy to join you here. I've been an avid flightsim junkie since I was a teenager, logging countless hours on the 172RG. Now that my life has settled a bit, with kids in school and more spare time on my hands, I've decided to pursue my love of flying for real.

I live in Westchester County (NY), and the nearby airport (15 min drive) - HPN - seems to have but one flight school. I was a bit surprised by the overall cost of acquiring a Private Pilot's License, but I understand the cost is largely due to aircraft time (rental, fuel, instructor fees), and varies student by student.

I'm just about to wrap-up my ground school, and am scheduling my initial few lessons with the flight academy. I really think (given the investment) that I should be able to meet (or certainly, at least choose) my flight instructor. However, the school informs me they assign one to me based on availability. However, once assigned, I will remain with that flight instructor throughout my training.

My question to you is - am I required to take my flight instructions through a certified/license school? Or can I source a flight instructor who works independently?

I'm not entirely familiar with the legality of this. To reiterate a bit differently - can I undertake the entirety of my flight training outside of an established flight school - directly with an instructor and rent an aircraft?

From a business perspective, a flight school has their overhead (employees, office space, etc.) so it would seem to be more economical to proceed with an instructor directly. I'm just not sure whether there are FAA requirements regarding who administers the education.

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to hanging out here more.

So you think as a CFI I am going to meet with you for free so you can interview me. My school has 22 on the waiting list. We don’t have time for you to interview the staff so you can have who you like best. Good luck with that.

Also you assume that a school has higher overhead than an independent. That is nor always true. Airplanes are like any other machines, the higher the utilization, the lower the cost. Standing on the ramp for a ground lesson with the heat index 102F is a poor way to learn.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

So you think as a CFI I am going to meet with you for free so you can interview me.

If you work for a school then you're an employee. I would think your employer has already interviewed you?

But yes, interviews are generally free last I checked.

 

[Clip4]

If you work for a school then you're an employee. I would think your employer has already interviewed you?

But yes, interviews are generally free last I checked.

Except I am not applying to work for a student and I am not wasting my time. The problem is people think CFIs at most schools are on salary. They aren’t, they get paid based on billable hours. If the student isn’t paying, the CFI is working for free. Currently the good schools are swamped with students. Feel free to go elsewhere.

 

[CharlieD3]

So you think as a CFI I am going to meet with you for free so you can interview me. My school has 22 on the waiting list. We don’t have time for you to interview the staff so you can have who you like best. Good luck with that.

Also you assume that a school has higher overhead than an independent. That is nor always true. Airplanes are like any other machines, the higher the utilization, the lower the cost. Standing on the ramp for a ground lesson with the heat index 102F is a poor way to learn.

Well. Good on ya, mate. You got a waiting list.

You don't have time for me? 'sall right... I got none for you.

Now, if you're the only school in my state... Might be a little different... But not much, in these days of social media...

Somebody will come in to fill the vacuum. And, probably pretty quick.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

So you think as a CFI I am going to meet with you for free so you can interview me. My school has 22 on the waiting list. We don’t have time for you to interview the staff so you can have who you like best. Good luck with that.

Also you assume that a school has higher overhead than an independent. That is nor always true. Airplanes are like any other machines, the higher the utilization, the lower the cost. Standing on the ramp for a ground lesson with the heat index 102F is a poor way to learn.

And you think the next time I need training, I'll sign on with someone who considers meeting me first to make sure we click as "working for free" or "wasting your time"? Nope. I'll go elsewhere.

 

[Bill Greenwood]

Well, you have found at least one instructor that you can be sure you don't want to fly with, and if he is like the others at that school you probably don't want it either. There are other CFIs who are anti student but aren't quite so blatant about it.
As for him being too busy and important to talk to you before your start to spend bout $12,000 with them, b s!. My Son is an attorney and the effort to go through law school at a major university and pass the bar is a hell of a lot more work than being a CFI, and he's a lot smarter than most CFIs Ive met, but he is polite enough that if someone phones him about a prospective case he gives them a few minutes of his time free, and that's common even among others who charge over his $300 hr.

 

[PaulS]

Bah, I just take who they give me, has worked out every time. You can't tell anything until you fly with them, on top of that, you don't know enough most times to ferret out a bad one unless you have experience. I do think it is important to stick with one if possible, unless there is an issue.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Bah, I just take who they give me, has worked out every time. You can't tell anything until you fly with them, on top of that, you don't know enough most times to ferret out a bad one unless you have experience. I do think it is important to stick with one if possible, unless there is an issue.

I couldn’t agree more, that’s why I always flew with prospective instructors. It always worked out for me too.

 

[Clip4]

Well, you have found at least one instructor that you can be sure you don't want to fly with, and if he is like the others at that school you probably don't want it either. There are other CFIs who are anti student but aren't quite so blatant about it.
As for him being too busy and important to talk to you before your start to spend bout $12,000 with them, b s!. My Son is an attorney and the effort to go through law school at a major university and pass the bar is a hell of a lot more work than being a CFI, and he's a lot smarter than most CFIs Ive met, but he is polite enough that if someone phones him about a prospective case he gives them a few minutes of his time free, and that's common even among others who charge over his $300 hr.

Did your son the attorney interview all his professors at law school be for he spent his tuition? Which law school let the students pick their professors?

Now, with that said. When your name comes up on the list, we will talk by phone for about 15 minutes and you can ask questions relevant to your training, but we are not meeting for an interview and neither are any of the other instructors at the school.

None of us are anti student. We are busy and don’t have time to meet with everybody who walks through the door wanting to chat.

 

[Clip4]

Congratulations, you just made the mostest, wrongerest statement of the month, maybe the year.

You need at least one for the ATP.