Flat Nosewheel Tire Rant

Deelee

Deelee

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Deelee
WTF. Greased it in today coming home after a lunch run. Piper Arrow. Smooth landing with calm wind. Centerline. So smooth I barely noticed I was on the ground. Eased that nosewheel down so soft the strut barely moved I'm sure.

Taxied off at the normal exit. Taxied back to my spot on the ramp as usual. No shimmies, no pulls left or right, no spongy/flat tire-y steering..... nothing out of the ordinary.

Tied down and covered her up (yeah, no hangar yet. We are on the wait list). Did the usual post-flight walk-around to make sure everything was squared away... and W T F. Nosewheel flat as a GD pancake. So ****ed I didn't even take a picture of it unfortunately. But picture a nosewheel with a perfect looking strut and other pieces right where the should be after a great flight, but flat as a GD pancake.

1. How...... how was I rewarded for a great flight by this mx PITA? What did I do to deserve this?
2. How much is this going to cost???? The repair stations on the field are all closed today, so I have no clue. The interwebs and POA don't turn up much useful info.
3. Anybody else have this atrocity happen to them after a great flight and greased landing???

Yes, I know I will find out some of these answers after talking to the mechanic tomorrow, but I need the support of other people who have been in these shoes tonight.
 
All it takes is a little FOD. Had something similar happen to me. I can’t recall the cost but it wasn’t too bad as aviation repairs go.
 
I can buy the cheapest tire at Walmart for my car put air in it and a year later still holds air. Buy the best aircraft tire put air in it and have to add air within 10 days, check air pressure low air pressure tire slips on rim tear valve stem tire goes flat. Fix a flat goop in tire tube not recommended, but it does seal the tire from air leakage.
 
had the same issue a few years back. xc wih a buddy in a C-162 from KARR to KBMI for a meeting. take off, flight, landing were uneventful and unremarkable. landing runway 11 there are only two exits and i touched down beyond the first exit but should've touched down a bit farther down the runway to reduce the taxi time to the other exit at the far end of 11. anyway, we taxi to the fbo, make the arrangements for fuel, grab the courtesy car and were off to the meeting and lunch. back in about 4-hrs or so, pay the bill and out to the plane we head only to find a flat nose wheel. never felt a thing out of place landing or during the long taxi. a lineman tried inflating the tire but it would not hold air. this was a saturday, no tube available till monday at the earliest. called the owner to fill him in. he told me to rent a car to get home at his cost which we did. a few days later a buddy and i flew down and i completed the flight back.

even though the landing and taxi were normal i felt responsible. the owner assured me that the problem was CCC...cheap chinese c**p (referring to the tire tube which had split down the a seam). i never felt anger but it was a really lonnnng day.
 
I have a feeling the culprit is going to be the tube. This is a new-to-us airplane, so we have never replaced them. FOD... maybe. But I am putting my money on the tube. Maybe at the valve stem.

And I guess the ultimate solution is to just do away with the nosewheel and get a 180 lol. But that high wing.......

Guess I need to do a better job checking tire pressure? But I know I did that as part of my preflight to and from lunch. Still.. maybe it was low enough to cause a rub-n-tear of the valve stem? Guess we will find out tomorrow .... But I guess there are worse expenses to be paid in this endeavor.
 
1. fod, old or worn tire/tube, tire pressure
2. Part cost: flat nose tire replaced on Piper, part (Michelin) = $93.88 (last week)
labor varies depending on time and airport:
-free, for angel flight mission (Aug 2020);
$110 labor, PHF (2014) tire replaced on taxiway Alpha, short of runway 7;
$935 at JAX for weekend-night callout (2019).
3. Flat tire after soft landing, not an “atrocity”; what JAX/CRG area mechanic charged, $935 for a Piper left main ... an atrocity.

For an Arrow nose tire/tube, around $200 for parts & labor, depends on whether aircraft needs to be moved.
Hope this helps.
 
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It helps and thanks. Yeah, not an atrocity for sure. I was joking around blowing off steam. What you got charged sounds like highway (runway?) robbery.

If they can change out the tire and/or tube on the ramp where she sits, then no need to move. I taxied back to my parking spot without noticing a thing... I guess best case it is the tube, they have one in stock or can get one quick and can be replaced pretty quick. Not planning to fly until weekend anyway and I don't think sitting on the flat for a few days will hurt until they can fix it.
 
Goodyear was using a sticker inside their tires that had a hard plastic overlay. This stuff would start working loose and would chafe the tube until it leaked. I filed SDRs at least three times on different airplanes. Don't know if they're still doing it, but mechanics should rip that label out if they see it in there.
 
Stuff happens, inflation checks on airplane tires are nebulous at best, since on preflight it is mostly visual. Your best solution is to do an owner assist on the diagnosis, so when this happens away from home the next time (and there will be a next time) you will have the knowledge to get yourself home and / or to the destination with a little local help.

Note the position of the tire relative to the tube stem when it is removed. If you find a hole in the tube, inspect the interior of the tire at that same relative location for some sort of hole inducing item. Or maybe the tube got pinched on the last installation, pinched tubes show up nicely if the installer uses talc but does not do a good job of mating the tube to the tire. Nothing found? Bad luck, replace the tube and carry on. If you are away from home, without a well stocked repair shop, and don't want to wait for new tube with a $35 overnight FedEx charge from ACS, a standard bike tube repair kit from the local hardware store can work wonders, as well as the aforementioned Fix-A-Flat.
 
It's not flat, the other two just swelled up....

I'll take a SWAG at it.....valve stem tear.
 
Very fortunate to have aircraft parked, home base, and repair not time-sensitive. If a tire goes flat, sounds the least inconvenient place.

Whereas a left main going flat, just as Seneca lining up for departure on JAX runway 8, on a weekend night.
Disabled aircraft closing a 10,000 runway with few options, yep, the A&P ‘runway robbery’ sounds accurate.

Ask mechanic to consider if tire worth keeping and whether replacing tube only is a feasible option.
Hope you’ll have better luck!
 
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I touched down at FTY, then my home base on a bright sunny afternoon, smooth as a baby’s butt, until the nose tire went flat! Nothing like blocking the main runway at a towered airport to make new friends!! The FBO towed me their maintenance hangar and charged me about 50% more than my normal shop would have charged me to replace the tube. But, nobody and nothing got hurt, except my wallet! :D
 
You can drag the nosewheel on a lot of planes by doing a locked main wheel tight turn.

The day before I was to go for my instrument ride I came out to find the nose gear flat. Turned out to be a loose valve stem on the tube. Easy enough to repair.
 
Lost the nose wheel taxing to refuel eight days ago. The tube had a small slit less than 1/8 inch but Let loose in a slight turn and quickly broke the tire off the rim. My kid was at the controls and it was a first for her and she handled it well. Tube was previously replaced within the year but the manufacture date was about 4 years old and looked like dry rot. Older stock may have been the issue for us. Good news was I had a tube and the tire was fine, and my young A and P who Is taking his PPL check ride in it next week was close at hand. Total cost a little sweat as it was hot on the ramp.
 
If the tube is old enough, it will just crack and leak.

Appendix A to Part 43—Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance
(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.

It ain't rocket science.

 
brien23 said:
I can buy the cheapest tire at Walmart for my car put air in it and a year later still holds air. Buy the best aircraft tire put air in it and have to add air within 10 days...
Click to expand...

Last time around, I splurged on Michelin AirStop tubes for the mains on my Sky Arrow. They helped to the point I now check air pressure monthly and rarely have to add any.

As an aside, early on found a flat main in Tallahassee headed to Sun ‘n’ Fun. Somehow the factory had installed 600x6 tubes in my 500x5 mains and I think that contributed to the flat.
 
I’m highly critical of my own landings... one of the few I did that I was perfectly happy with ended with a plane that decided when I went to turn off to the left it would only go right! Blew a main on landing, glad I had a good headwind and that I was taught to use brakes firmly even in the TW to get to taxi speed ASAP- had I added 10kt “cushion” airspeed, had no headwind and was scared of the brakes like lots of TW folks- I mighta looped her... but man it stunk to have a Beautiful lansing end that way!

I now check tire pressure on the regular as it looked fine- but once repaired and back home- so did the pilot side and yet it was down to 14lbs...
 
Happened to me at 1B1 (Columbia County) a couple years ago.
Everything was fine when I took off from DXR, When I landed, the nose wheel was flat.
I did a high speed taxi with the nose off the ground to get it parked.
I borrowed some tools, had someone sit on the tail so I could get the wheel off, and disassembled.
A little tube patch, air, and reassembly and it was back to DXR.
 
Zeldman said:
It's not flat, the other two just swelled up....

I'll take a SWAG at it.....valve stem tear.
Click to expand...

lol...reminds me of one of Bill Engvall’s “here’s your sign” jokes...

“tire go flat?”
“Nope. I was driving around and those other three just swelled right up on me...here’s your sign...”
 
I also had a nosewheel flat for no apparent reason after a very routine landing.

My ground crew did a fine job getting her back to the hangar at Copperhill:


That nosewheel tire is a tiny Cheng Shin, pretty sure sourced from a wheelbarrow or some such. I always carry a spare tube for it, since I’d be unlikely to find a tube that size at an airport. Probably find one at Tractor Supply, though! I also carry a tube patching kit just in case.
 
I had that happen at Spirit of St. Louis on a long cross country. We greased it in on centerline and then parked it to go get dinner. When we came back everything looked good until we started taxiing out and felt the wheel go flat. The best we could figure, was that the nose wheel was cut on the centerline lights when we landed because the tire had a cut running the same direction as the treads. I got to sit in the back of the airport police car on the taxiway while they filed an incident report. It was like -8F in the middle of the night, so I was glad for the heat!
 
the first thing to do when you get the plane off the runway is look for somebody in a open hanger tinkering. I keep a couple of worn, but usable tires and tubes sitting on the shelf to give to people that fly in and get a flat. I have changed a few on the taxiway for stranded non-based pilots.
 
Just called one of the shops on the field. I am going to try to meet him out there today or tomorrow so I can see what the issue is. Also will hopefully gain some knowledge first-hand on how to take the wheel off and change tire/tube for future reference. Sounds like it's not a huge deal. Just marred up an otherwise really nice lunch run. Could have been a bunch worse.
 
Change it yourself. It's owner performed MX. I did the same thing one time coming back from the Bahamas. Rented a car and drove home and grabbed a spare tire and brought it back down the next day. An hour later I flew the plane home. MUCH cheaper than having a mechanic do it.
 
Deelee said:
WTF. Greased it in today coming home after a lunch run. Piper Arrow. Smooth landing with calm wind. Centerline. So smooth I barely noticed I was on the ground. Eased that nosewheel down so soft the strut barely moved I'm sure.

Taxied off at the normal exit. Taxied back to my spot on the ramp as usual. No shimmies, no pulls left or right, no spongy/flat tire-y steering..... nothing out of the ordinary.

Tied down and covered her up (yeah, no hangar yet. We are on the wait list). Did the usual post-flight walk-around to make sure everything was squared away... and W T F. Nosewheel flat as a GD pancake. So ****ed I didn't even take a picture of it unfortunately. But picture a nosewheel with a perfect looking strut and other pieces right where the should be after a great flight, but flat as a GD pancake.

1. How...... how was I rewarded for a great flight by this mx PITA? What did I do to deserve this?
2. How much is this going to cost???? The repair stations on the field are all closed today, so I have no clue. The interwebs and POA don't turn up much useful info.
3. Anybody else have this atrocity happen to them after a great flight and greased landing???

Yes, I know I will find out some of these answers after talking to the mechanic tomorrow, but I need the support of other people who have been in these shoes tonight.
Click to expand...

this business of flying naturally balances itself. At least you know exactly how much that perfect landing cost and the bill is paid.
 
Excessive touchdown speed will cause the tire/tube to slip on the wheel, causing a torn vale stem. After the tire goes flat, there is no evidence of puncture and the tube has migrated back to its original position. Total mystery to the unfamiliar observer...

Either that or Gremlins.
 
...but it was only flat on the bottom, right?

41245.jpeg
 
Some additional tips from an old school tire guy ...

---- if possible clean and wash and dry the flat tire before disassembly , otherwise gravel or small sharp stones could fall into the tire and cause a future leak , for the same reason never toss your tube onto a dirty work bench where it can pick up grit or metal filings from grinders or welders etc.

---- Wear a leather glove and run your hand inside the tire to check for nails or objects that have may have pierced the tire .... then remove the glove and use a bare hand to do the same .... or put on a tight fitting medical glove that will snag on anything sharp , it is surprising how sometimes even tiny pieces of wire get embedded in a tire and work their way in

---- same as the rims ... check for gouges scratches and burrs caused by some previous muscleman who used flat screwdrivers and pry bars to remove the tire from the rim

---- before installing the tube and rim , stand the tire upright , drop it on the bench a couple of times , then use a flashlight to look for any debris on the bottom , even better take some wide adhesive tape and use the tacky side to pick up any particles lying in the tire , look at the tape afterwards , you will be surprised what is in there ,

---- most important is to normalize the tube and valve stem into the proper position , leave the valve out of the stem and put in about 10 psi air and then let it all out ... slightly wiggle the valve stem and make sure it is still centered , then repeat with about 20 psi , let it out and then inflate to 30 psi and let the air out again ... this will help to center the tube and stem properly and eliminate folds or stress areas in the tube , then replace valve and inflate to specs.

In theory a tube should last "forever" unless something pierces it or the tire fails ... I have my late fathers 1953 Cockshutt 40 tractor which still has the original front tires and tubes and factory air in them , valve caps have never even been removed because they have never leaked in 67 years

In modern day it is a good idea to buy good quality rubber tubes if you can find them , cheap china tubes are not worth bringing home , let alone installing on aircraft.

Sorry for the long rant , the extra steps I recommended take less time than it took me to type it out .... haha
 
Good points all!

You did fail to mention tire talc, or just baby powder.

The know Desser ships a small packet with their tires/tubes. I consider it essential to avoid folds/creases in the tube and friction between the tire and tube.

Also, put just enough pressure in the tube for it to hold its shape when assembling wheel halves - helpful in avoiding pinches.
 
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smv said:
...but it was only flat on the bottom, right?
Click to expand...

Hey, that looks like my tire!

Hopefully today I can get out there with the mechanic and look at it. Not flying for a few days, but the thought of the plane sitting like that.. just sad.
 
FastEddieB said:
Also, put just enough pressure in the tube for it to hold its shape when assembling wheel halves - helpful in avoiding pinches.
Click to expand...
Or, clamp the beads together before assembling the wheel halves. Having a little pressure in the tube pretty much guarantees that you will pinch the tube with my tire / wheel combination. Guess how I know.
 
A Martin said:
In theory a tube should last "forever" unless something pierces it or the tire fails ... I have my late fathers 1953 Cockshutt 40 tractor which still has the original front tires and tubes and factory air in them , valve caps have never even been removed because they have never leaked in 67 years
Click to expand...

They are probably filled with concrete, not air.
 
Be careful with Talc powder try not to get it on the rim bead or tire bead you don't want that to slip when you step on the brakes.
 
brien23 said:
Be careful with Talc powder try not to get it on the rim bead or tire bead you don't want that to slip when you step on the brakes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip.

I’ve never worried about it and never had a problem. But going forward, I’ll probably wipe down the bead area lightly with brake cleaner as a precaution.
 
Welp - turned out to be a puncture in the tube. About the size of half a cotter pin. Absolutely nothing on the inside of the tire could be found no matter how it was flexed and bent and felt around with bare hands. So something small and sharp that punctured then got flung out by the turning of the tire / centrifugal force maybe? Pretty rare I have been told, but hey that's luck I guess. At least it wasn't a rotten tube or valve stem defect or (gasp!!) something I did wrong in terms of low air pressure, bad landing, fast taxi, etc...
 
I've had several flats. One was upon landing in a 172 (no harm done) and the others have been while taxiing in LSAs. Repairing them is similar to fixing flats on my bicycles, just on a heavier scale. Flat fixing, whether on bikes or planes, is a PITA every time!
 
As a general rule, if a blow out is discovered on rollout, is it better to:
1) Stop on the runway and call for help?
2) Taxi on the flat tire to a taxi way, stop and call for help?
3) Taxi to parking, stop and call for help?

Just not sure what best practice/convention requires.
Tks
 
Get off the runway if you can. DON'T taxi on a flat tire unless of course you want to buy a new wheel assembly.
 
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