Fixed Leg Options for 3-4 people 135 or more kts

WDD

WDD

Final Approach
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Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
Besides a Tiger and Skylane, what fixed legged options exist for
1) 135 kt or more cruise
2) Has a back seat, can carry 3 people and luggage or 4 people no luggage
3) Costs less than $100k (ideally can find examples for $70-$80) with a 1000 hour or less engine and not needing hard core work.

I'm leaning to an Arrow 2 or 3, but of course they are retracts - is there a fixed gear I'm missing?

(Tigers are scarce, and Skylanes are ridiculously expensive).
 
Dakota. Hard to find one under 100 these days. Same could be said for the 182 though.

DA40?
 
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Tecnam P2010
Glasair Sportsman

Sling4 is a bit shy at only 130kts. Oh well.

And unfortunately, none are <$100k, although it could be argued that neither are the AA5B and C182 in today's market.
 
Jim K said:
DA40?
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I don't know what the cheapest DA40 would be but I suspect that finding one for less than $100 is going to be pretty hard if not impossible...

The DA40 or Cirrus would be my recommendation if it weren't for the $100k cap that was put on this discussion. It's going to make things pretty hard in the current market.
 
mondtster said:
I don't know what the cheapest DA40 would be but I suspect that finding one for less than $100 is going to be pretty hard if not impossible...
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The cheapest one I could find was 135, which would be pretty competitive with a Dakota or Skylane. I don't think there is an answer to the question. The Grumman is probably the closest.
 
There's a 69 Cherokee six 260 just listed on Facebook. Nice interior, but tired panel and paint. 890 SMOH, 5800TT. You can probably get a 6/260 cheaper than a Dakota.

Oops; forgot to mention the price. They're asking 87,500.
 
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Jim K said:
The cheapest one I could find was 135, which would be pretty competitive with a Dakota or Skylane. I don't think there is an answer to the question. The Grumman is probably the closest.
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That's what I saw too, but I haven't been tracking the market for cheap DA40s. Even most (maybe all) DA20s are likely going to be over $100 right now unless it has a ton of time on it or is somehow undesirable.

The Grumman traveler or the cheetah and possibly the Cherokee Six have the most promise of being able to haul the load and make it to the 135 knot mark (but likely won't exceed it by much) at the price point requested by the OP. There just isn't much out there that will do that on that kind of a budget with fixed gear.

Actually, come to think of it, restricting the discussion to single engine airplanes was implied but not specified. While fixed gear twins are a rarity there might be an option or two that will do 135 and haul the load.
 
WDD said:
I'm leaning to an Arrow 2 or 3, but of course they are retracts
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Leaning the right way...

1969 Arrow PA28R-200...

1) 135 kt or more cruise - Check. 150 KTAS cruising at 7k' on a cold day with me and one passenger up front.
2) Has a back seat, can carry 3 people and luggage or 4 people no luggage - Check. Back seat is tight, but I never had complaints.
3) Costs less than $100k (ideally can find examples for $70-$80) with a 1000 hour or less engine and not needing hard core work. Check.... probably... we got lucky with ours when we bought a year ago. Prices have gone up.

Don't be scurrred of the wheels that go up and down.
 
Not scared - just leaving no stone unturned. I’ll just have to plow through any insurance problems I come upon because I’m over 60 and it being a retract.

Wait - you get 150kts true at 7000’?
 
I had in mind 135 indicated and true would be whatever it happens to be with temp, attitude, etc. About right?
 
Nice planes - but they are retract
 
I think if you are set on fixed gear then a Cherokee 6/200 would work. You get the speeds you are looking for, you can haul your house and they seem to be well less than $100,000. I think a drawback is they seem to be very scarce right now. Only 2 available on controller.com
 
Was getting oriented on the clubs’s 182 RG yesterday. The more I hear about the durability and maintenance problems they are having with the gear, I’m coming to the conclusion that Cessna retracts on 182, 172, 177 are a bit of a throw of the dice. From what I’m reading the arrow’s gear would be a lot more robust - and forgiving.
 
Mike Blackburn said:
Remember the Arrow retract has the auto gear extension thing going on which may make insurance less of an issue than say a Mooney.......
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I doubt that. Many (most?) Of those systems have been disabled. The one on my lance has, and none of the insurance companies asked about it, either.

WDD said:
Was getting oriented on the clubs’s 182 RG yesterday. The more I hear about the durability and maintenance problems they are having with the gear, I’m coming to the conclusion that Cessna retracts on 182, 172, 177 are a bit of a throw of the dice. From what I’m reading the arrow’s gear would be a lot more robust - and forgiving.
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Maybe. Can't speak to the cessna system, but I've put 3-4 amu into my gear, and it's going to need a few more before i get it where I want it. All this stuff is just so old, and never gets fixed until it causes a problem.

I'm curious as to why your looking to buy it you have a club 182rg available. Let them worry about the bills. Of course availability and location are huge.
 
Availability - you hit the nail on the head. It is checked out a lot for a week at a time, and booked pretty far out. Want to go see my daughter this weekend? Not in the 182rg. Maybe it might be open next month. And the major holidays are booked up this year
 
Vaporware. There aren't very many aircraft that will do those speeds with the gear welded down for that money. The Tiger can kinda depending on the aircraft, but they are a bit scarce. Skylanes can do it if you don't mind burning lots and lots of gas in an aircraft your grandfather could have flown when he was young. Sad thing is the money will buy a lot of Bo or Mooney, but the gear isn't welded down. Don't know why the OP is so frightened of retractable, it's just a switch.
 
Heck - it’s getting harder to get time with any of the planes these days. A lot of new members. I guess it’s all part of the recent surge in GA.
 
Not frightened of retract. I’ve come to the conclusion I need a retract - but being thorough I’m asking the question to all to double check if I’ve missed any fixed gear options.
 
If someone wrote you a check and said “if you get there an hour later/longer flight, keep this check and cash it” would you? I don’t know if I would, lol! Time is money; So is speed.
 
No, I wouldn’t take the check. Wife has a 2 1/2 hour limit, and at 130 or so kts that gets us where we want to end up. This airplane stuff has nothing to do with financial responsibility anyway LOL.
 
Cessna 336, could probably pick one up for $60K-$80K.

img.axd
 
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insurance is cracking down on certain demographics of pilots and where they intersect with certain types of planes (twins, retracts, etc) -- OP's preference for fixed gear makes sense to me from a "this aircraft will have longevity of purpose for me, even if the insurance market draws even tighter, or I age into one of the 'no retracts' demographics"
 
Good reason the Skylane is gets a price premium. Fantastic leg and shoulder room. Forget the back bench seat, get a 206 if that’s needed.

Plus the high-wing is nice to make shade and easy in/out for passengers. Nice family flier.

1972Brochure4-1024x619.jpg
 
What is the age of “no” for retracts?
 
NordicDave said:
Good reason the Skylane is gets a price premium. Fantastic leg and shoulder room. Forget the back bench seat, get a 206 if that’s needed.

Plus the high-wing is nice to make shade and easy in/out for passengers. Nice family flier.

1972Brochure4-1024x619.jpg
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That's a mighty impressive autopilot she's got there...
 
WDD said:
What is the age of “no” for retracts?
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I'm 61. I was chatting with the CEO of LifeStyle aviation (Diamond dealers) a couple of weekends ago about a DA-62. Beautiful plane. Twin diesels, FADEC, 7 seats, TKS, oxygen, etc. About 1400 AMUs too rich for my blood. But anyway. He said I've got until I'm 70 for a plane like that and then the insurance for a twin retract would be impossible to obtain. (He is also an insurance salesman, LifeStyle handles it all for those who choose to buy...)
 
WDD said:
Heck - it’s getting harder to get time with any of the planes these days. A lot of new members. I guess it’s all part of the recent surge in GA.
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Maybe your club needs another airplane? What’s the pilot to airplane ratio?

I’d get a Dakota over an Archer, but if you do focus on the Archer make sure you check useful load in case it has all the goodies like A/C.
 
jsstevens said:
I'm 61. I was chatting with the CEO of LifeStyle aviation (Diamond dealers) a couple of weekends ago about a DA-62. Beautiful plane. Twin diesels, FADEC, 7 seats, TKS, oxygen, etc. About 1400 AMUs too rich for my blood. But anyway. He said I've got until I'm 70 for a plane like that and then the insurance for a twin retract would be impossible to obtain. (He is also an insurance salesman, LifeStyle handles it all for those who choose to buy...)
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Not into twins - so I hope a single retract is insurable for a 75 or so year old. Just turned 60 this year. Would love a Dakota - kind of rare.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
If someone wrote you a check and said “if you get there an hour later/longer flight, keep this check and cash it” would you? I don’t know if I would, lol! Time is money; So is speed.
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if his mission length is 400-500 miles, the difference between the Tiger and Bo is not that much. Send me that check!
 
WDD said:
Wait - you get 150kts true at 7000’
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Yes.

mondtster said:
Don’t assume that all Arrows will do that. The early ones were faster than the rest.

Id figure on 135 knots for most of them.
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Good point on this. I have a 1969. The later models were longer and had a different wing.

Plus the previous owner put on all the 'speed mods' he could. Wingtips, gap seals galore... if there was a gap, it has a seal mod sealing it up. Personally, I wouldn't have gone to these lengths, but the previous guy did and I ended up with a fast Arrow.

Don't expect that out of the newer ones.

The more I read these posts, the more I think an Arrow would be a great flying machine for you. Just find out about the insurance.
 
WDD said:
What is the age of “no” for retracts?
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Beats me, I'm in my 40s, but I read a ton of whingeing on the forums I frequent. 70 seems like rough sailing, and 80? is apparently "not at any price" territory. No idea if 60-something pilots are getting smacked around by massive premium increases or not.

It's the first time I'm hearing about age-related headwinds since I started flying in 2003
 
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