First time medical, >0.15 BAC, want basicmed

S

Sam E

Guest
I have a DUI from 20 years ago that was >0.15. I told my AME about it, he put this in with the FAA, and I got the letter back from the FAA asking for documents. That's where I'm at.

This would put me in the "never drink again" HIMS area, and random alcohol tests - which I would really really like to avoid. I'd like to go the basicmed route, but it requires a class 3 not be revoked/suspended. Which takes 2 years to expire. I've heard something about a "one time issuance".

Is there a way to get a 3rd class issued, but without serving out the HIMS testing until it expires, and transfer quickly to a basicmed? Can I tell the AME that I'm dropping the class 3? And just basicmed for years to come.
 
Unfortunately, you should have come here first. The experts will chime in soon, but "you done f#ck3d up" already by submitting the form th FAA. There's no lying to the feds, but there are ways to posture yourself prior to submission. And other options are gone now.
 
You won't get issued until you do some of the HIMS dance. You need to continue that until the medical expires (which will be probably a year from the date your initial AME visit was). After that, you can go basic med.
 
I'm almost 40. Initial exam was April 2024. 3rd class expires in 2 years (2nd class in 1 year). Does this mean when I get the special issuance and HIMS, I need to follow it (random testing) until April 2026 to get to Basicmed?
Ron - I'm wondering because you say "some of the HIMS dance" and 1 year. But you're saying that the 3rd class MUST expire for basicmed to be valid...
 
To expound further, once you enter the HIMS pathway and after a certain period of monitoring, if you are compliant you should get a special issuance medical certificate. This SI medical will be valid for a prescribed period, typically 6 months for substance abuse. The authorization for your HIMS AME to issue subsequent SI’s in office may extend 5 years or so. As long as you are compliant to the requirements of the initial SI, you can opt out of requesting a new SI medical for the next 6 months; your current SI medical then becomes expired. At that point you can continue to fly under BM.
 
Yes, your med will have a limitation like "Not Valid for Any Class after May 2025" or something like that. On June 1, you're free to let it expire and do basic med.
 
Sam E said:
I'm almost 40. Initial exam was April 2024. 3rd class expires in 2 years (2nd class in 1 year). Does this mean when I get the special issuance and HIMS, I need to follow it (random testing) until April 2026 to get to Basicmed?
Ron - I'm wondering because you say "some of the HIMS dance" and 1 year. But you're saying that the 3rd class MUST expire for basicmed to be valid...
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There is a difference between the authorization for a SI medical and the medical certificate. See my post
 
We'll you're in the sytem now. No Basic for you until you satisfy even THIRD class (same inital std).
I tell pilots this: There is nothing that REQUIRES you to land at 1.3 VsO or Vref. "But if you don't you are going to get punished".
Similarly, there is nothing in part 67 that requies you to be sober.... "but if you don't, you will get punished."

A refusal to go completely sober and demonstrate that, is a sign that the airman likes his beer, better than the air. FAA will act accordingly.

And then Basic will also be no more. You got good advice from your AME.....but if you are incapable of taking said advice you will be taking the bus.....

My take:
Go sober now.
Prove it by peeing in the cup,
Get with a LADC or CADC or LPC weekly and get some education about how alcohol changes your perception of how much you actually let it control your life. Have that all in order B4 the HIMS AME sends you to the ONE TIME visit to the HIMS psychiatrist (about $3,500!). Prepare well!

(....or you could just ride the bus....)

B
 
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Sam E said:
I'm almost 40. Initial exam was April 2024. 3rd class expires in 2 years (2nd class in 1 year).
Click to expand...
An SI-based medical certificate (HIMS or otherwise) does not expire based on your birthday. It expires when it says it expires. Example-
1716635883125.jpeg
 
Sam E said:
I'm almost 40. Initial exam was April 2024. 3rd class expires in 2 years (2nd class in 1 year). Does this mean when I get the special issuance and HIMS, I need to follow it (random testing) until April 2026 to get to Basicmed?
Ron - I'm wondering because you say "some of the HIMS dance" and 1 year. But you're saying that the 3rd class MUST expire for basicmed to be valid...
Click to expand...
The short answer is yes, you'll have to jump through the hoops to get your medical and then keep jumping through the hips until it expires, but that won't be 3 years because SI medicals expire much quicker.
 
Honestly, you need to forego this process at once for now.

BasicMed requires that you have held 1 medical certificate after July 14th, 2006, and this certificate must not have been suspended nor revoked. The ONLY way you will EVER hold a medical certificate if you continue on with this application is if you go through HIMS. Doing it my way just might save you from having to go the HIMS route.

However, whichever route you do go, you MUST be willing to commit to continuous sobriety for 2 years at the very least. If you are unwilling to do this, you will never get BasicMed, or a medical certificate of any kind for that matter, and all of this will be a wash.

Contact attorney Joe LoRusso at Ramos Law. He specializes in getting pilots out of HIMS. You are going to have to enroll in random substance testing for a minimum of 2 years before you'll even get through this mess. There is honestly no point to doing any of this until you have 2 years of provable sobriety under you.

Enroll in either Soberlink or random urine tests through Choice Lab Inc, with your HIMS AME as your monitoring person. You'll want 10-panel with EtG, 28 tests within a 12 month period (yes the FAA requires 14, but in this case, since you're setting up your own monitoring program, they've been known to challenge it by saying you planned around the 14-day cycle, but that argument goes out the window when testing at double this frequency...Joe LoRusso will tell you this). Do this for 2 years before you do anything more. Then, retain Joe LoRusso. He will give you a bunch of paperwork that you'll want to submit with your next medical application. Then, apply for the medical, set up the physical appointment, and submit the application, AME's findings, test results, and all paperwork provided by Joe LoRusso.

Also, and VERY IMPORTANT...DO NOT STOP THE TESTING UNTIL -
(a) You have an unrestricted medical certificate in hand, OR
(b) You have a special issuance medical certificate, AND the special issuance medical certificate has expired
 
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You don’t need a lawyer. Get in HIMS, there is no other choice. Do what they want until you medical expires, it will probably be be a year. When you’re a month or so from the expiration tell your AME you’re going to let the medical expire without renewing it. Keep up what they want until it expires. If they want you to pee the day before, do it.

Look, you screwed up. Drinking and flying are incompatible, just like drinking and driving or messing around without protection. Take your medicine.
 
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Jon Wilder said:
Honestly, you need to forego this process at once for now.

BasicMed requires that you have held 1 medical certificate after July 14th, 2006, and this certificate must not have been suspended nor revoked. The ONLY way you will EVER hold a medical certificate if you continue on with this application is if you go through HIMS. Doing it my way just might save you from having to go the HIMS route...
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It sounds like he already completed an application for a medical certificate. If he discontinues the process now, the application will be denied, which according to 14 CFR 61.23(c)(3)(iv) will render him ineligible for BasicMed unless and until he later reapplies and succeeds in getting a medical certificate.

(3) A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while operating under the conditions and limitations of § 61.113(i) must meet the following requirements—​
...​
(iv) The most recent application for an airman medical certificate submitted to the FAA cannot have been completed and denied.​

www.law.cornell.edu

14 CFR § 61.23 - Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
 
Palmpilot said:
It sounds like he already completed an application for a medical certificate. If he discontinues the process now, the application will be denied, which according to 14 CFR 61.23(c)(3)(iv) will render him ineligible for BasicMed unless and until he later reapplies and succeeds in getting a medical certificate.

(3) A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while operating under the conditions and limitations of § 61.113(i) must meet the following requirements—​
...​
(iv) The most recent application for an airman medical certificate submitted to the FAA cannot have been completed and denied.​

www.law.cornell.edu

14 CFR § 61.23 - Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
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I realize it will result in a denial. When he succeeds in the future, that certificate will supersede all previous denials.

The point is he is going to get nowhere until he completes 2 consecutive years of sobriety, first and foremost. By that time, this application will have expired anyway. So might as well walk away from it until he's completed at least 2 years of sobriety.

I believe Dr Bruce mentioned some time ago that if he goes to and completes rehab, that that may speed things along as they wouldn't need to wait for the full two years? @bbchien

Either way, the OP needs to decide now that he is committed to sobriety or he will NOT survive the process.
 
Yes (JWilder) if the diagnosis is alcohol dependency, Dry.
But if it's abuse, it's 4 months of peeing in the cup, an issuance, and on average about 3 more years of peeing in the cup.
Or, it could be NO Alcohol use disorder.

So you need to get to a HIMS AME and get the high level evlaution "set up" after pre-demonstrating a period of sobriety. Generally, a HIMS AME's opinions are prtty close to that of the HIMS psychiatrist, whose opinion you WILL NEED.
 
Palmpilot said:
It sounds like he already completed an application for a medical certificate. If he discontinues the process now, the application will be denied, which according to 14 CFR 61.23(c)(3)(iv) will render him ineligible for BasicMed unless and until he later reapplies and succeeds in getting a medical certificate.

(3) A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while operating under the conditions and limitations of § 61.113(i) must meet the following requirements—​
...​
(iv) The most recent application for an airman medical certificate submitted to the FAA cannot have been completed and denied.​

www.law.cornell.edu

14 CFR § 61.23 - Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
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You omitted the part about the medical issued can not have been suspended or revoked. You need to do whatever the FAA wants to stay in their good graces until it expires.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. There is no arrest record since this is so old, so no record of the BAC anywhere. Does anyone know what happens when there is no documentation? I can handle sobriety I just really would like to avoid the rigmarole and huge expense of HIMS.
 
homeostasis said:
Thanks for the responses everyone. There is no arrest record since this is so old, so no record of the BAC anywhere. Does anyone know what happens when there is no documentation? I can handle sobriety I just really would like to avoid the rigmarole and huge expense of HIMS.
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didnt u already report it to faa
 
I reported the DUI to the FAA. It's in the driving record. There's no BAC record.
 
I’d imagine they will ask the bac and ask for documentation. if u lie u r exposing yourself. so might be tricky
 
Contact the DA's office or the court in jurisdiction and explain what you need. They can write a letter explaining that the record no longer exists. Absent the actual record you will need this.
 
flyingron said:
You omitted the part about the medical issued can not have been suspended or revoked....
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That was covered in the quote I provided from the post that I was replying to.
 
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