First Time Airplane Buyer....maybe

[Juliet Hotel]

I thought about a Mooney M20C but I'm pretty sure insurance would be awful on that for a new pilot with no high performance/complex time.

The M20C is not high performance but it is complex. That being said, you might want to talk to a few agents and get a few quotes before you assume insurance will be a deal breaker. I had just over 100 hours and zero complex when I got into an M20C and insurance wasn't terrible.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I looked at DA40s and ended up with a 182. Just a more capable airplane for not much more money

 

[AlphaMike]

I own and fly a 182. It's a true 4 adult, 4 seater airplane. The asking prices for 182s has really skyrocketed in the last couple years though. They seem to hit the sweet spot for a lot of people. Cruse at 140 -150knots, carry 4 adults and full fuel, a 5+ hour range (with plenty reserve).

 

[DMD3.]

The M20C is not high performance but it is complex. That being said, you might want to talk to a few agents and get a few quotes before you assume insurance will be a deal breaker. I had just over 100 hours and zero complex when I got into an M20C and insurance wasn't terrible.

What about the maintenance costs? A lot of people avoid owning retractable-gears because they claim it costs an extra fortune on the annuals.

 

[schmookeeg]

What about the maintenance costs? A lot of people avoid owning retractable-gears because they claim it costs an extra fortune on the annuals.

The extra fortune is on the insurance. Jamokes keep gearing them up.

The maintenance is a rounding error in the ownership cost picture for most RGs. You hear occasional horror stories like the Cessna gear saddles that are spendy and done every few decades. That's just aging aircraft stuff, though, and I don't think it's unique to retracts.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

What about the maintenance costs? A lot of people avoid owning retractable-gears because they claim it costs an extra fortune on the annuals.

The Mooney Johnson bar system is about as dirt simple as retractable gear can get. You'll have to replace donuts every so often and it'll have to go up on jacks for a gear swing every annual. But if we're talking a manual gear C model, I wouldn't expect the gear to add more than a buck or two per hour to the MX budget in the grand scheme. Honestly there is nothing to fear when it comes to a manual gear Mooney.

 

[DMD3.]

The Mooney Johnson bar system is about as dirt simple as retractable gear can get. You'll have to replace donuts every so often and it'll have to go up on jacks for a gear swing every annual. But if we're talking a manual gear C model, I wouldn't expect the gear to add more than a buck or two per hour to the MX budget in the grand scheme. Honestly there is nothing to fear when it comes to a manual gear Mooney.

Makes sense. It stands to reason that the retracts on some makes maybe better than others.

 

[bradg33]

What about the maintenance costs? A lot of people avoid owning retractable-gears because they claim it costs an extra fortune on the annuals.

"A lot of people" have never actually owned a retract and are simply regurgitating what some other uninformed person told them. The cost increase is minimal in the grand scheme of things, and is easily made up for in efficiency. Sure, retractable gear increases your maintenance exposure, as it's one more system to fail, but that's just a roulette game anyway. There are plenty of 172/182/Grummans out there that end up costing the owners far more to maintain than the similar retract does. The maintenance side of ownership is always a bit of a gamble, but retractable gear alone does change the risk profile much.

 

[MonkeyClaw]

Lot's of good suggestions here. I say buy into a partnership or join a club. After my PPL, I bought 1/3 into a Warrior partnership. Worked out well, MX was split between three people and I had the plane almost as much as I wanted it. There were occasional conflicts but they were easily worked out. The 3rd partner never flew for the whole time I owned the plane.

 

[mondtster]

What about the maintenance costs? A lot of people avoid owning retractable-gears because they claim it costs an extra fortune on the annuals.

As has already been addressed, the last thing I'd be concerned with is additional costs for maintaining a retractable landing gear. The bigger concern would be insurance costs. Some types are worse on insurance than others so it pays to get estimates for a few different types before settling on one if that is a concern. As a point of reference, I owned a Bonanza and Mooney at the same time and the Mooney insurance was roughly double that of my Bonanza.

 

[WDD]

Lot's of good suggestions here. I say buy into a partnership or join a club. After my PPL, I bought 1/3 into a Warrior partnership. Worked out well, MX was split between three people and I had the plane almost as much as I wanted it. There were occasional conflicts but they were easily worked out. The 3rd partner never flew for the whole time I owned the plane.

Let me know the name of your 3rd partner who paid but never flew. I'd like to be partners with him on a plane.

 

[bradg33]

Let me know the name of your 3rd partner who paid but never flew. I'd like to be partners with him on a plane.

That arrnagement isn't nearly as uncommon as you'd think. I've got a couple partners that rarely fly, and know some folks with partnerships and similar situations (at least one partner never flies). I think, like with many airplane purchases, one buys in thinking they'll fly a ton, then it tapers off and soon becomes a "never" thing. They keep the plane because, in a partnership, the costs are low and they think it's just a matter of time before they start flying again.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

As a point of reference, I owned a Bonanza and Mooney at the same time and the Mooney insurance was roughly double that of my Bonanza.

Were the hull value's similar between the two?

 

[mondtster]

Were the hull value's similar between the two?

Close enough that it wouldn't have caused a significant difference. I think the stated value of the Mooney was maybe $3k more.

This was when insurance was easy and cheap to get too. I was plenty insurable in both airframes, the Mooney was simply more expensive.

 

[samiamPA]

Let me know the name of your 3rd partner who paid but never flew. I'd like to be partners with him on a plane.

My former partner didn't fly for the first several years of our partnership. Didn't even have a license. Just really liked being able to say he owned his own airplane

 

[TCABM]

That arrnagement isn't nearly as uncommon as you'd think. .

Yep. The partnership I bought into has fewer flyers than owners. Only a couple fly more than once a month.

 

[flyingron]

Owning an airplane is like having kids. If you wait until you are sure you can afford one, you'll never have any. I kick myself for several opportunities I had over the years to NOT get a plane. I eventually wised up when we decided to get the Navion.

 

[WWFeldman]

My former partner didn't fly for the first several years of our partnership. Didn't even have a license. Just really liked being able to say he owned his own airplane

We've got the same situation. Partner and I bought into a 172 that a lady owns at our field. She'd owned the plane for 14 years and still hasn't got her license.