First solo coming up

[Bird Man]

Congratulations! How many landings in your Log did you have before you soloed?

Definitely a day you will never forget.

 

[jordane93]

Congrats on the solo! You'll never forget this day.

 

[MetalCloud]

Man, I found out a day late or I'd have been out there by Row J with a big sign with numbers on it.

Congrats.

It was a good day to fly yesterday. Were there any old farts with little kids outside the fence by the run up area?

Holy **** that 172 is expensive. $155/hour? Yikes.

Oh man! That's so cool of you to even think that! Thank you

Yeah, gorgeous day to fly. That's one the many benefits to living here. I guess one of the downsides is the expense. Yeah, it's not cheap. But few things in this area are!

Congratulations! How many landings in your Log did you have before you soloed?

Definitely a day you will never forget.

Thank you! It was 198 landings.

Congrats on the solo! You'll never forget this day.

Thank you! You're definitely right.

Ha, I hear ya, I got a free upgrade to a g1000 on my 3rd or 4th lesson. It was neat, but I was chasing the numbers a lot. It is so sensitive compared to the needles.

I did my intro flight in a G1000. I do remember the sensitivity. Hmm. Maybe I should hold off on that? We'll see. I'm excited to learn that system, but I put everything in the hands of my awesome CFI

 

[NHWannabe]

Congrats!

 

[MAKG1]

This is about the earliest you could sensibly transition to G1000, but I'd recommend against it. It is A LOT more complex to learn than a steam gauge. I'd suggest even finding the cheapest 70s 172 you can find (and there are several around PAO) and learn how to navigate without the fancy gizmos. If you absolutely must have a GPS to avoid being lost (which will cause grief on your check ride if your examiner fails it -- and this happens), pick something simpler, like a simple GNS430 installation with dual nav/comm and transponder and nothing else. NO autopilots. You simply don't need that and it does not make it easier.

Every navigational issue I've had has been due to a GPS or other automation doing something unexpected. Most recently, I had a GTN650 sequence to the next point on its flight plan, while in OBS mode. It's not supposed to do that. And the OBS was completely useless as a result.

 

[MetalCloud]

^^
Really good advice, MAKG. Really, really good. I definitely get ahead of myself sometimes!

 

[somorris]

Congratulations MetalCloud.

Did you get your shirt tail cut off?

 

[MetalCloud]

Congratulations MetalCloud.

Did you get your shirt tail cut off?

Thank you! And I didn't! A few folks have asked me about that. Would have been cool, but all good. I got a shirt from the school/club and had my CFI sign the back.

 

[somorris]

Not quite the same, but close . Hang on to that. One of these days, it will bring back fond memories.

 

[woodchucker]

They wanted to cut my shirt tail, but I preferred to go home and have that particular little ceremony with my family. Cut the tail and the wife and kids got out sharpies and went to town with me. The flight school still gave me a free t-shirt.

The first solo is fun and all, but wait until you get your first XC solo!

 

[yah00]

Oh man! That's so cool of you to even think that! Thank you

Yeah, gorgeous day to fly. That's one the many benefits to living here. I guess one of the downsides is the expense. Yeah, it's not cheap. But few things in this area are!



Thank you! It was 198 landings.



Thank you! You're definitely right.



I did my intro flight in a G1000. I do remember the sensitivity. Hmm. Maybe I should hold off on that? We'll see. I'm excited to learn that system, but I put everything in the hands of my awesome CFI

I spent the first 7.1hrs (basically up to solo) in a g1000 172SP. It definitely is sensitive, and very easy to chase the numbers. For instance vertical speed. If you are not comfortable with the sight picture of straight and level flight, you may find yourself chasing altitude while watching the VSI on the PFD show small changes.

As far as difficulty, basic g1000 operation is pretty easy. However it really is so overkill for basic VFR flying.

After my first 7.1 I switched to steam gauge planes to finish my training, and frankly I am glad I did. I think all pilots should train in stream gauges, then transfer to a glass cockpit after the checkride.

I have about 32+ hours in the g1000, and love it, but don't use all of the features. It is a great plane, and well maintained, which is why I fly it. My FBO is getting a steam 182 online. Once that happens, I probably won't fly the g1000 172 much.

For PPL training, stick with steam.
So much easier to watch a needle VSI learning steep turns than watching the PFD, at least IMO.

For my XC solo, I wasn't even allowed to use VOR navigation. My CFI made me fly it using ground references, which payed off. Now even when I fly the magenta line (GPS) or VOR, I always compare the sights to the sectional.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MAKG1]

Flying around the Bay by ground references, you'll learn how to get around the airspace pretty quickly, first with the TAC (and it shows just about EVERYTHING) and then by memory.

And that will add lots of confidence when you realize you can get back to Palo Alto with a completely dead panel. And you know where all your "outs" are in case something bad happens. Like where South County is when your engine quits over Morgan Hill like this guy (the article doesn't say, but he narrowly missed several transmission lines). And more importantly, where the GOLF COURSE right next to the Metcalf power plant is (that's where he eventually touched down).

 

[yah00]

Yup... Being able to fly via ground references is important, IMO. The G1000 can make for one lazy pilot. Having all of that information readily available might lead one to not flight plan properly, etc. There have been times the g1000 came in clutch, such as the time I had to fly into Sac Executive last minute. I was about 10NM away. The g1000 provided radio frequencies , runway information, etc. Things like the course prediction line can also make you lazy. Wind correction angle? What is that? I just make the white line match the magenta line... Stuff like that.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MetalCloud]

Dammit. I typed up a response last night but browser crashed and it was lost.

I have my solo phase check tomorrow (in the steam gauge 172 I've been flying). From there we'll continue with a G1000 172. So I did 1.5 hours in a G1000 yesterday. Sooo cool. My CFI likes it for safety and situational awareness, and I think we'll use it for XC prep. It was a little different though. But I can get used to it.

We're still doing the prep the old fashioned way (my E6B arrives today). So I'm excited to learn that, and to learn how he'll augment the XC with the G1000. I know he won't just say "follow the magenta line" ... he loves the G1000, but he's old school. And I dig that.

 

[AggieMike88]

Ummm... I'd stay with the round dial aircraft...... You already have many hours in it and know it's little quirks better than you think.

Getting you into the G1000 is their way of getting more money from you since the rental cost is freqently more. And you have to learn how that aircraft likes to fly all over again (especially landings).

At this stage of learning, you're better off with the round dials. Less new stuff to learn or be distracted by (aka task saturation). Plus you're not likely to be flying a G1000 equipped aircraft once training is complete. Better to have high proficiency on round dials including XC navigation.

And remember that you're the customer and the guy learning to make the important aviation decisions, not your CFI. So don't get mislead because the CFI has a stiffy about glass equipped aircraft.

 

[MAKG1]

Oops.

You're either at Advanced or Advantage.

They "sell" G1000 172s much, much more than they should.

A CFI that needs a G1000 for "situational awareness" in primary training is not paying attention. You shouldn't pay for the CFI's need for remedial work. It is absolutely not safer for a primary student. Quite the opposite, as it's an enormous distraction. You don't need it for any VFR work, and any autopilot for primary training is a distraction (and both of the common G1000 autopilots are far on the complex end, GFC700 being worse than KAP140).

Either that, or he's trying to build "glass" time in his logbook, which is dishonest if he hasn't disclosed that to you.

My primary CFI wanted a 430 to watch the airspace boundaries. The 172 that had it was a bit weak -- it would cruise at 95 KTAS. You know how far the practice areas are; this made it more expensive than the non-GPS 172 that would make book numbers (105 KTAS), and somewhat more difficult to plan for in cross countries. So, that got disregarded immediately post-solo. CFI preferences are not important for a primary student unless safety related.

There is much to be learned from navigating the airspace without a GPS. It's quite a lot easier than you might think -- there are MANY good landmarks. Like, the Salt Pile on the east bayshore marks the corner of SJC class C fairly nicely (be under 1500 MSL if you're inbound with it on your right -- or preferably keep it on your left so you can cross the Bay higher).

 

[MetalCloud]

Ummm... I'd stay with the round dial aircraft...... You already have many hours in it and know it's little quirks better than you think.

Getting you into the G1000 is their way of getting more money from you since the rental cost is freqently more. And you have to learn how that aircraft likes to fly all over again (especially landings).

At this stage of learning, you're better off with the round dials. Less new stuff to learn or be distracted by (aka task saturation). Plus you're not likely to be flying a G1000 equipped aircraft once training is complete. Better to have high proficiency on round dials including XC navigation.

And remember that you're the customer and the guy learning to make the important aviation decisions, not your CFI. So don't get mislead because the CFI has a stiffy about glass equipped aircraft.

Just to be clear. He didn't really push it. I expressed a lot of interest in it (part of my tech nerd MO).

But you're probably right about sticking with the round dials. Funny... the other 172 was obviously a 172 but I did notice differences.

Oops.

You're either at Advanced or Advantage.

They "sell" G1000 172s much, much more than they should.

A CFI that needs a G1000 for "situational awareness" in primary training is not paying attention. You shouldn't pay for the CFI's need for remedial work. It is absolutely not safer for a primary student. Quite the opposite, as it's an enormous distraction. You don't need it for any VFR work, and any autopilot for primary training is a distraction (and both of the common G1000 autopilots are far on the complex end, GFC700 being worse than KAP140).

Either that, or he's trying to build "glass" time in his logbook, which is dishonest if he hasn't disclosed that to you.

My primary CFI wanted a 430 to watch the airspace boundaries. The 172 that had it was a bit weak -- it would cruise at 95 KTAS. You know how far the practice areas are; this made it more expensive than the non-GPS 172 that would make book numbers (105 KTAS), and somewhat more difficult to plan for in cross countries. So, that got disregarded immediately post-solo. CFI preferences are not important for a primary student unless safety related.

There is much to be learned from navigating the airspace without a GPS. It's quite a lot easier than you might think -- there are MANY good landmarks. Like, the Salt Pile on the east bayshore marks the corner of SJC class C fairly nicely (be under 1500 MSL if you're inbound with it on your right -- or preferably keep it on your left so you can cross the Bay higher).

Oh he meant awareness for me. He definitely doesn't need the G1000 (for use or for hours) and wasn't pushing it on me either. In fact, I wanted to start with it and he said hell no. Actually wouldn't let me even talk about it until after the solo.

Sorry.. didn't mean to start a "flight school trying to rip me off" tangent. I don't think they are. CFI isn't either. I feel totally comfortable.

But solid points about the landmarks. We're been through a few of them (airspace, approaches into hayward, etc.).

 

[write-stuff]

The G1000 is a fantastic system, but it's so attractive that new students may spend too much time playing it like a video game. Probably not a bad idea to start out with round dials. The general wisdom is that it's easier to transition from round to square than from square to round. Although either is relatively easy considering other things pilots have to learn.

 

[MAKG1]

If he means traffic and weather, yes, the G1000 has that, at the cost of heads down time and A LOT of false alarms.

G1000 TIS likes to trigger off itself in a steep turn, for instance. I think it's counterproductive to hear the thing alert for traffic at 6 o'clock less than one mile when it's just your own butt it sees. Maybe it's better with ADS-B, but there is no such thing as G1000 ADS-B yet.

A G1000 transition is a decent post-checkride transition, but I'd argue there are better ways to spend 5 hours or so. Like high performance and complex endorsements, additional type checkouts, mountain flying, or maybe tailwheel or glider. Honestly, I don't use it unless I have to. Which means CAP activities (and I favor the round dials even for some of those, especially "orientation rides" for the cadets).

Lots of people misuse "awareness." More information is not a synonym. You have to be able to digest the information and form a picture. Information overload can make the picture go away. At your stage, it will be more effective to scan the horizon and use flight following.

It's a bit different for instrument flight. But even then, it's debatable, as it's not at all unusual to see a competent instrument pilot in one of them get surprised by something the automation does. Most recently, I watched a several-thousand-hour instrument pilot struggle to get the **** thing to capture a glideslope without having to override it. And G1000s like to descend as late as possible, so if they miss a descent, you can get into a tough place.

 

[AggieMike88]

on post 59.

Save the extra rental fees and use it for a post PPL add on such as MAKG discussed.

I get the geek/nerd compulsion thing. But there's much to be said about doing the PPL with a pilotage and papyrus*.

*some of us old forum hands remember the new student member who ranted/raved against his CFI for wanting him to use paper charts all the way to the checkride. Frequently compared them to ancient papyrus documents. Link to thread

 

[yah00]

I started my flight training in a g1000 172. Flew 7.1 hours dual in it, then solo, then my CFI left the FBO. I ended up taking two weeks off, and then switched to another school using an older steam guage 172. I actually like them both. I find the steam guage a better option for primary training... You don't chase the numbers, etc. I really was distracted by the g1000. I was split about 60% panel and 40% outside, which is bad. Statistically speaking they have proven to be a distraction, or at least very well can be. Now, don't get me wrong... I love the g1000. I've since passed my checkride and I have flown almost 30 hours in the G1000 172 in the past three months. Having in flight weather and traffic advisories on the MFD really does come in handy... It provides a ton of information, which can be helpful. However it really is overkill for basic VFR flying. You should first learn in a steam guage, fly XC via ground references, then once you master that, switch to the glass. Another thing, the g1000 172 is significantly more nose heavy than the steam guage versions.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MAKG1]

The G1000 is very heavy. It accounts for 150 lb or so in the 182 I fly.

We have a hard time fitting crews of three adults in a G1000 182. None of them get full fuel routinely, and some are fueled as low as 50 gal.

Not so much for steam gauges. It's easy to fit a crew of three fat CAP adults in a steam gauge 182.

It will effectively make a 172 into a two place airplane.

If it seems nose heavy, that suggests you aren't trimming.

 

[MetalCloud]

These are all really solid points.

I could get a Stratus 2 and a new iPad Mini with the cost difference in just a few hours of time. And that's more than enough for the nerd in me.

on post 59.

Save the extra rental fees and use it for a post PPL add on such as MAKG discussed.

I get the geek/nerd compulsion thing. But there's much to be said about doing the PPL with a pilotage and papyrus*.

*some of us old forum hands remember the new student member who ranted/raved against his CFI for wanting him to use paper charts all the way to the checkride. Frequently compared them to ancient papyrus documents. Link to thread

The papyrus comments made me literally LOL.

I have paper charts for my XC.

....Just need a sextant and an abacus and we're in business!

 

[yah00]

The G1000 is very heavy. It accounts for 150 lb or so in the 182 I fly.

We have a hard time fitting crews of three adults in a G1000 182. None of them get full fuel routinely, and some are fueled as low as 50 gal.

Not so much for steam gauges. It's easy to fit a crew of three fat CAP adults in a steam gauge 182.

It will effectively make a 172 into a two place airplane.

If it seems nose heavy, that suggests you aren't trimming.

Exactly, I meant nose heavy as in weight wise, not feel. Although even trimmed it has a slightly different feel than the other 172s I fly.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[vkhosid]

These are all really solid points.

I could get a Stratus 2 and a new iPad Mini with the cost difference in just a few hours of time. And that's more than enough for the nerd in me.



The papyrus comments made me literally LOL.

I have paper charts for my XC.

....Just need a sextant and an abacus and we're in business!

If you're a true nerd, this would be even better than a startus and iPad

https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/3fscia/the_11390_adsb_receiver_for_foreflight_or_pretty/

 

[MetalCloud]

94V, that's pretty cool.

Phase check tomorrow! Hope it goes well. Just need to fly and relax

 

[MetalCloud]

Phase check complete. Approved to solo! I have some things to work on. But it went ok.

I'm holding off on G1000. I need to perfect a few other things first before diving into that system.

Excited!!!

 

[MAKG1]

Phase check complete. Approved to solo! I have some things to work on. But it went ok.

I'm holding off on G1000. I need to perfect a few other things first before diving into that system.

Excited!!!

I don't understand. Didn't you report soloing on the 14th? Or is this an endorsement to go to Hayward or Livermore solo?

We always have things to work on.

 

[MetalCloud]

Endorsement for Hayward.

Excited. I have a lot to work on but I can't wait to go flying again

 

[MAKG1]

Endorsement for Hayward.

Excited. I have a lot to work on but I can't wait to go flying again

You were required to get a phase check for that? Oh well. I just had to demonstrate that I could find it and not bust the Class D or C.

It's an easy one to get to. Turn right at the bridge, turn left at the other end, follow I-880, don't fly over the golf course unless you're already talking to NorCal. Watch the bayside TPA. It's 600, for a reason. Oakland ILS is right overhead.

Power-off 180s are fun on 28L. You can do it easily in a 172, even from 600 feet.

 

[MetalCloud]

You were required to get a phase check for that? Oh well. I just had to demonstrate that I could find it and not bust the Class D or C.

It's an easy one to get to. Turn right at the bridge, turn left at the other end, follow I-880, don't fly over the golf course unless you're already talking to NorCal. Watch the bayside TPA. It's 600, for a reason. Oakland ILS is right overhead.

Required? No. I wanted a second opinion. Instructor was cool with it. It was really good practice. We did a lot of mock check-ride activities.

Yeah, we spent a lot of time on airspace. No problem for the most part. Got a little close to Oakland when coming back from practice area and heading to Hayward but all good. Definitely have to work on that

 

[MAKG1]

Well, if you feel you need it.

What you really need IMO is a class C transition. Once you figure out just how easy it is, you'll never worry about it again. Get flight following, and you're essentially done.

C transitions are useful for almost all southbound departures out of PAO.

 

[MetalCloud]

Well, if you feel you need it.

What you really need IMO is a class C transition. Once you figure out just how easy it is, you'll never worry about it again. Get flight following, and you're essentially done.

C transitions are useful for almost all southbound departures out of PAO.

Good call!

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Congratulations!
I miss the new freedoms part of learning to fly.
You are right in the cusp of doing a lot of exciting new things with every flight.

Keep posting. I hope to read about your XC, and checkride in the future.

Well done.

 

[CrimsonFlyer]

I could get a Stratus 2 and a new iPad Mini with the cost difference in just a few hours of time. And that's more than enough for the nerd in me.

That's what I did: a Stratus 2S and iPad mini 4. I'm also a student pilot flying out of PAO. As I'm still pre-solo, I actually don't use Foreflight much. I use my personalized electronic checklists much more. My CFI is big on teaching the landmarks about here--boundaries of NUQ, SJC, OAK, SFO, HWD. I bought the Stratus simply because, like you, I'm a geek and figure I would definitely get it later for cross country. Might as well get used to the toy now. And with Stratus, I have no desire to fly G1000 as a VFR pilot. I pick one of the cheapest planes in the fleet for my training, and I actually love it more than the more expensive ones that I have tried.

My solo is also coming up soon. But CFI wants to me to solo at HWD first thanks to that nice, long, wide 28L. (Wonder if he's also on this forum.)

It's so fun flying around the Bay Area. Beautiful scenery, fantastic weather, and busy airspace that requires you to be sharp.

 

[MAKG1]

Hehe. Hayward has that nice long wide 28L, but Tower will put you on the much smaller 28R if they can. Honestly, PAO is 2300x70, and it's enough for King Airs. You can land a 172 on it if you're anywhere near on speed.

 

[MetalCloud]

Congratulations!
I miss the new freedoms part of learning to fly.
You are right in the cusp of doing a lot of exciting new things with every flight.

Keep posting. I hope to read about your XC, and checkride in the future.

Well done.

Thank you! It is very exciting! And a little daunting and overwhelming but I tend to take on too much mentally sometimes. You'll definitely read about the XC. I guess we have a bit of time before that actually happens, but I think we'll start focusing on navigation, airspace, and just general planning logistics. This will be FUN!

That's what I did: a Stratus 2S and iPad mini 4. I'm also a student pilot flying out of PAO. As I'm still pre-solo, I actually don't use Foreflight much. I use my personalized electronic checklists much more. My CFI is big on teaching the landmarks about here--boundaries of NUQ, SJC, OAK, SFO, HWD. I bought the Stratus simply because, like you, I'm a geek and figure I would definitely get it later for cross country. Might as well get used to the toy now. And with Stratus, I have no desire to fly G1000 as a VFR pilot. I pick one of the cheapest planes in the fleet for my training, and I actually love it more than the more expensive ones that I have tried.

My solo is also coming up soon. But CFI wants to me to solo at HWD first thanks to that nice, long, wide 28L. (Wonder if he's also on this forum.)

It's so fun flying around the Bay Area. Beautiful scenery, fantastic weather, and busy airspace that requires you to be sharp.

Cool! A KPAO homie! It's funny.. I thought I was going to solo at Hayward too. We were in the pattern at KPAO after doing more emergency procedures, I remember feeling calm and confident that day, so I think my CFI just thought, let's do this so he doesn't get all nervous with anticipation.

Agreed about Bay Area flying. Very happy I'm doing my training here. I feel like other places will be a breeze after this! I heard that KPAO is the busiest single runway GA airport in the US, and I believe it.

Hope to see you around the pattern sometime!

Hehe. Hayward has that nice long wide 28L, but Tower will put you on the much smaller 28R if they can. Honestly, PAO is 2300x70, and it's enough for King Airs. You can land a 172 on it if you're anywhere near on speed.

The first runway I landed at other than KPAO was 28L at Hayward... very different! I'm used to it now, but man that thing is huge!

 

[MAKG1]

Thank you! It is very exciting! And a little daunting and overwhelming but I tend to take on too much mentally sometimes. You'll definitely read about the XC. I guess we have a bit of time before that actually happens, but I think we'll start focusing on navigation, airspace, and just general planning logistics. This will be FUN!



Cool! A KPAO homie! It's funny.. I thought I was going to solo at Hayward too. We were in the pattern at KPAO after doing more emergency procedures, I remember feeling calm and confident that day, so I think my CFI just thought, let's do this so he doesn't get all nervous with anticipation.

Agreed about Bay Area flying. Very happy I'm doing my training here. I feel like other places will be a breeze after this! I heard that KPAO is the busiest single runway GA airport in the US, and I believe it.

Hope to see you around the pattern sometime!



The first runway I landed at other than KPAO was 28L at Hayward... very different! I'm used to it now, but man that thing is huge!

Ask your instructor to go to Castle (KMER) on your cross country. It's a former SAC B52 base, and the runway has been narrowed to 150 feet.

No way PAO is the busiest single runway airport. Ever been to KSAN? PAO only really gets bad on nice Saturday afternoons. Ukiah was much worse on my instrument cross country, as CalFire was using it as a base for the Valley Fire, with constant twin turbine tanker traffic. No tower, either.

 

[MetalCloud]

Ask your instructor to go to Castle (KMER) on your cross country. It's a former SAC B52 base, and the runway has been narrowed to 150 feet.

No way PAO is the busiest single runway airport. Ever been to KSAN? PAO only really gets bad on nice Saturday afternoons. Ukiah was much worse on my instrument cross country, as CalFire was using it as a base for the Valley Fire, with constant twin turbine tanker traffic. No tower, either.

Yeah I forgot the Class D classifier there. Either way it's busy.

Former B52 base? I'm in!! We should do short field landings on the narrow part. Lol I'll look it up and ask him.

This stuff is so fun. it's fun to think about all the adventures ahead and fun to read about everyone's journeys here.

 

[AggieMike88]

Busy single runway? Come over to DTO when the Chinese beehive is in full force.