First real plane trip... surprise TFR

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AGLyme

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Andrew
Took off early this morning from CT (KSNC) to Sky Bryce VA (VG 18) — 332 miles, stayed to the right of the big Class B,s (LGA, JFK, Newark, Philly) and flew over the C,s... a blast. And intentionally stayed clear of the ever present Wash DC TFR. While aloft, a huge red dot appeared on the Dynon signaling a TFR... then a few minutes later the same new red area showed up on the iPad. My well thought out () flight plan was immediately trashed !

I had to fly north with a 3 minutes warning. Decided to Pitt stop in Hagerstown which was on the extreme edge of the new TFR and get gas avoiding a stop for the trip back tomorrow. A follow me buggy and 3 guys welcomed me and I topped out at a whopping 12 gallons. I was apologetic for the small amount in the Flight Design. They couldn’t have been nicer... A pilot in the lounge explained that the expanded TFR was probably due to a VIP visit to Camp David.

Do TFR’s suddenly show up like that? I noted a TFR on the return trip near NYC but it isn’t effective until the 5th. Very good experience for my Newbie cross country training as I had to completely re-flight plan the trip while flying.

Getting ready for the big trip to the big O in a couple of weeks... safe flying y’all.
 
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Had the same thing happen on my first long flight with my wife. Fredrick MD to Westerly RI. While airborne (2+15 trip) the president decided to go from his NYC visit to go visit a friend on Long Island. Suddenly my plan up Long Island Sound became a more westerly trip into Rhode Island. I was in a very basic 172 Hawk XP and didn't have a stratus (at the time) but had flight following and ATC gave me a heads up and were great about it.
 
For the VIP TFRs, there are usually a few days notice. The DC SFRA is always there, as is P40 around Camp David. I spent a lot of time commuting between Central NY and Gaithersburg (KGAI) on a couple different occasions for 8 months at a time. It's always easier to make the trip filed IFR regardless of WX, then you never get frozen out of the class B, and always get a heads up to avoid (or get routed around) TFR airspace. The VIP TFRs in the NYC area are a giant PITA. It's much nicer (for us) in winter when the POTUS goes to Florida instead. (Sorry for them, though.)
 
This TFR area was “Yuge”...
seriously it wasn’t a small zone, it extended way out from DC to Hagerstown.
Thx All
 
AGLyme said:
This TFR area was “Yuge”...
seriously it wasn’t a small zone, it extended way out from DC to Hagerstown.
Thx All
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There is TSA training center east of Martinsburg and a Coast Guard center there. VP was at one of them a few weeks ago. Had a little more notice but the TFR pretty much blocked that Catoctin Mts south transit west of Dulles B. I was on a dork around flight so just went north.:)

If you have the IFR rating it really helps around the capital region and up towards NY. Busy yes but it takes away a lot of concerns like this. I got routed right over P40 and Camp David last winter. "Potomac confirm heading is through P40" and yep, that's where they sent me at 3K.
 
AGLyme said:
Took off early this morning from CT (KSNC) to Sky Bryce VA (VG 18) — 332 miles, stayed to the right of the big Class B,s (LGA, JFK, Newark, Philly) and flew over the C,s... a blast. And intentionally stayed clear of the ever present Wash DC TFR. While aloft, a huge red dot appeared on the Dynon signaling a TFR... then a few minutes later the same new red area showed up on the iPad. My well thought out () flight plan was immediately trashed !

I had to fly north with a 3 minutes warning. Decided to Pitt stop in Hagerstown which was on the extreme edge of the new TFR and get gas avoiding a stop for the trip back tomorrow. A follow me buggy and 3 guys welcomed me and I topped out at a whopping 12 gallons. I was apologetic for the small amount in the Flight Design. They couldn’t have been nicer... A pilot in the lounge explained that the expanded TFR was probably due to a VIP visit to Camp David.

Do TFR’s suddenly show up like that? I noted a TFR on the return trip near NYC but it isn’t effective until the 5th. Very good experience for my Newbie cross country training as I had to completely re-flight plan the trip while flying.

Getting ready for the big trip to the big O in a couple of weeks... safe flying y’all.
Click to expand...

Does the Dynon show pending ones in yellow or some other way. Did you check for TFR’s during preplanning? Only ‘pop up’ so to speak, TFR’s I can think of are fires
 
Yes, the Dynon shows pending ones... in fact, on my trip home from Virginia this morning, there were a couple of Orange (upcoming) TFR's on the way (in New Jersey) that will be active on July 5th. When active, they turn Red.

The same surprise TFR that I encountered yesterday showed up again today. There was no mention of the TFR in Foreflight... when I reached the plane at the field and updated the Dynon with the Foreflight, the red ball greeted me. I had to plan around it again, but I was an old pro...; )

I took a couple of photos on this AM's return trip... one photo reveals the good old permanent Wash DC TFR and the "new" one (red outer ring)... the other photo reveals the TFR's western/northern border. I made sure I didn't enter the airspace, I basically flew a crescent pattern.

Interesting if nothing else. My first overnight plane trip was a success, learned a ton, had a blast. Happy 4th all.TFR a.jpg TFR b.jpg
 
AGLyme said:
Took off early this morning from CT (KSNC) to Sky Bryce VA (VG 18)
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As discussed in my thread about flight following in the other forum, I'm planning to fly to Sky Bryce as well (for lunch only). Any issues with the place?

Related to the topic of surprise TFRs, for the thread: practically, how much notice does the FAA have to give before it's the "pilot's fault" for busting a TFR? If I don't have in-flight information available and I'm flying along happily, I can't be expected to avoid a flight restriction if less than an hour of notice was given. Of course, if you are on flight following you will find out about it more expeditiously.
 
It is actually a very cool little airport. There is no Com, so keep your eyes pealed, no FBO, no fuel and several tie downs. There is no real downwind or base... on the prevailing wind runway approach (23) you enter this little valley and as you drift lower and lower you can see people eating their lunches in their mountain homes... and kind of plop in. The opposite runway is kinda similar but less dramatic and you come over a golf course. Runway is in poor shape, I saw a guy this AM weed whacking the alleged asphalt runway, prepping for a July 4th celebration at the airport. Very nice area. There is a new restaurant/ brew house that opened up nearby, other than that, you have to travel 20 minutes to civilization. There are a few YouTube vids of guys landing on both approaches, may want to review before you go, they helped me.
 
AGLyme said:
It is actually a very cool little airport. There is no Com, so keep your eyes pealed, no FBO, no fuel and several tie downs. There is no real downwind or base... on the prevailing wind runway approach (23) you enter this little valley and as you drift lower and lower you can see people eating their lunches in their mountain homes... and kind of plop in. The opposite runway is kinda similar but less dramatic and you come over a golf course. Runway is in poor shape, I saw a guy this AM weed whacking the alleged asphalt runway, prepping for a July 4th celebration at the airport. Very nice area. There is a new restaurant/ brew house that opened up nearby, other than that, you have to travel 20 minutes to civilization. There are a few YouTube vids of guys landing on both approaches, may want to review before you go, they helped me.
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Thanks, your post was very helpful for me. I'm looking forward to going there, but I'm not ready yet.
 
That was not a pop-up TFR, it is the speed ring associated with the SFRA: NOTAM 1/1155

So your Dynon was just telling you to slow down. :) You are not the first to be fooled by a red circle of death.

And 12 gallons is extra fuel some places, usually only 7 or 10 gallons required to waive 'handling' or 'facility' fees.
 
catmandu said:
That was not a pop-up TFR, it is the speed ring associated with the SFRA: NOTAM 1/1155

So your Dynon was just telling you to slow down. :) You are not the first to be fooled by a red circle of death.

And 12 gallons is extra fuel some places, usually only 7 or 10 gallons required to waive 'handling' or 'facility' fees.
Click to expand...

Ah Ha! Do you know if Garmin or others do that, or is it just Dynon.

@AGLyme , here’s your answer
 
Cat, the ring came up on the iPad (ForeFlight) as well... and when I came close to the line, both systems lit up “Entering TFR”... so in actuality, the Dynon and ForeFlight should have denoted a distance warning to the actual TFR ???... thank you for the clarification.
 
I just read the Notam, basically the red ring of death around the real Notam is a speed limit (<230 mph).. I’ll be damned. Learned a ton on that trip.

Thank you for the clarification
 
AGLyme said:
Took off early this morning from CT (KSNC) to Sky Bryce VA (VG 18) — 332 miles, stayed to the right of the big Class B,s (LGA, JFK, Newark, Philly) and flew over the C,s... a blast. And intentionally stayed clear of the ever present Wash DC TFR. While aloft, a huge red dot appeared on the Dynon signaling a TFR... then a few minutes later the same new red area showed up on the iPad. My well thought out () flight plan was immediately trashed !

I had to fly north with a 3 minutes warning. Decided to Pitt stop in Hagerstown which was on the extreme edge of the new TFR and get gas avoiding a stop for the trip back tomorrow. A follow me buggy and 3 guys welcomed me and I topped out at a whopping 12 gallons. I was apologetic for the small amount in the Flight Design. They couldn’t have been nicer... A pilot in the lounge explained that the expanded TFR was probably due to a VIP visit to Camp David.

Do TFR’s suddenly show up like that? I noted a TFR on the return trip near NYC but it isn’t effective until the 5th. Very good experience for my Newbie cross country training as I had to completely re-flight plan the trip while flying.

Getting ready for the big trip to the big O in a couple of weeks... safe flying y’all.
Click to expand...

Forgive me for asking, how does Dynon or your Ipad learn about a TFR that appears during flight? Is this coming through FIS-B?
 
Dynon (panel) and Foreflight (iPad) both receive information (GPS +) in "real time". Weather updates are delayed by about 10-20 minutes I believe. I am a public school guy I have no idea where/how the magic happens (FIS-B???)... What is cool is working on the flight plan on the iPad at home, then uploading the plan into the Dynon. A vastly improved scenario than running the Dynon with the engine (and/or battery) running and entering the plan that way.
 
luvflyin said:
Ah Ha! Do you know if Garmin or others do that, or is it just Dynon.

@AGLyme , here’s your answer
Click to expand...

Garmin does it but it’s not coming from the GPS signal. You need an external antenna that provides FIS-B or XM weather. We have a GDL-69 in the helicopter that provides graphical TFRs. No stadium TFRs but displays presidential, air shows, natural disaster stuff.
 
Ring Laser: I attached a quick vid of the takeoff from Bryce... as you can see it is a small runway but I did have dinner with someone who said he and his Dad landed a Navaho there once years ago. Again, a very cool approach. I hope the vid comes out, I am new to Youtube posting.

 
AGLyme said:
Yes, the Dynon shows pending ones... in fact, on my trip home from Virginia this morning, there were a couple of Orange (upcoming) TFR's on the way (in New Jersey) that will be active on July 5th. When active, they turn Red.

The same surprise TFR that I encountered yesterday showed up again today. There was no mention of the TFR in Foreflight... when I reached the plane at the field and updated the Dynon with the Foreflight, the red ball greeted me. I had to plan around it again, but I was an old pro...; )

I took a couple of photos on this AM's return trip... one photo reveals the good old permanent Wash DC TFR and the "new" one (red outer ring)... the other photo reveals the TFR's western/northern border. I made sure I didn't enter the airspace, I basically flew a crescent pattern.

Interesting if nothing else. My first overnight plane trip was a success, learned a ton, had a blast. Happy 4th all.View attachment 75630 View attachment 75631
Click to expand...
There isn't a permanent TFR associated with DC - the SFRA is charted, as is the FRZ inside it, so you don't have to go to NOTAMs to be aware of them. P40 xpands / contracts, depending on who is there.
 
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