First REAL Near Miss - SR22 / Helicopter

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
OK, not even my parachute could have saved this one.

On downwind departure, just handed off to ATC, still in the pattern (KWHP) or just outside, a helicopter comes out of nowhere, direct collision course, so close I can read call sign and see the pilot. Only an evasive turn saved this one. I tell ATC as soon as I'm clear, and the controller apologies...says the helicopter ( a blue / yellow news copter) was low and not talking to anyone. He was so close to me, we appeared as one aircraft on his screen, or so he told me..

He later comes back on and asks me if I want him to get the call sign. I told him yes. He apologizes again and calls 3 towers...none of whom were aware of him...and he dove below radar after the encounter. (I could tell he saw me...we both turned abruptly.)

Lesson learned: All the radar and ATC help doesn't mean anything if a stupid pilot is in controlled airspace, low, and not talking to anyone. And thank God my eyes were outside.

I'm filing an ASRS on this one. I was on 120.4 around 8:30am PST if anyone wants to listen in. When I calm down, I'm going to listen myself. The tower may have said something about traffic, but as I recall, that was different traffic and under no circumstances should I have been handed off in or near the airport so close to someone else.

Wow. Watch your own back and look outside!
 
When someone chooses to fly silent and not talk to the tower ,there's not much you can do except stay vigilant. In the towers airspace is not always the safest place to be. Get the number and file a report.
 
The chute could have saved you. Just about the same thing happened in Frederick MD - KFDK in 2014. The chute saved the Cirrus pilot and passenger. No luck for the helicopter pilot and passengers.
 
JasonM said:
The chute could have saved you. Just about the same thing happened in Frederick MD - KFDK in 2014. The chute saved the Cirrus pilot and passenger. No luck for the helicopter pilot and passengers.
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It can go the other way too. An SR-20 collided with a tow plane over Boulder CO and some folks on the ground got video of airplane parts under a burning 'chute.
 
To answer the above...Not sure if I was still in Class D...was right on border, but had been handed off by tower while still in pattern. And regarding the 'chute maybe saving me...could be right. But I was headed for a direct hit. Had I been heads down, hard to imagine a 'chute would have saved me...direct hit at 150mph...
 
You fly the downwind leg on the edge of D airspace?...

Good to hear you're safe.
 
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Cpt_Kirk said:
You fly the downwind leg on the edge of D airspace?...

Good to hear you're safe.
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Not sure what you're asking. Right downwind is standard departure at my airport. I was just inside or just outside on departure.

I found my file on ATC, and it's exactly as I remembered. ATC couldn't or didn't see traffic until they are ON me. They told me about DIFFERENT traffic, a jet.

For those interested, the entire exchange is on LiveATC.net, including ATC "sorry" and offer to phone the towers to get the helicopter's call sign. 16:50 Zulu today, So. Cal., 120.4. Pull up 16:30 - 17:00 Zulu and advance to 16:50. Continues in 17:00 - 17:30 file with their report back that no one else ever saw him, and then they handed me off.

http://www.liveatc.net/listen.php
 
Link says file not found

Interested in hearing this one
 
I find rotorcraft particularly hard to see.
I fly near Whitman on my way from Santa Paula to points east and find a lot of rotorcraft traffic at low altitudes all along the 210.
Helicopters have their own radio frequencies in the LA basin.
They are subject to the same airspace communication rules.
 
In listening again, technically I was not yet on FF. I was in that awkward moment between requesting and receiving the squawk code, still in the pattern though. I'm guessing the copter was in KWHP airspace, but below radar until he popped up under me.
 
Finally, listening on the 2nd file, I do not hear myself. As you know, Live ATC doesn't pick up everything, especially when receiving multiple transmissions. In this case before handing me off, the controller stated he finished calling all 3 towers and no one saw this guy again after he descended under radar. Smart guy.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Finally, listening on the 2nd file, I do not hear myself. As you know, Live ATC doesn't pick up everything, especially when receiving multiple transmissions. In this case before handing me off, the controller stated he finished calling all 3 towers and no one saw this guy again after he descended under radar. Smart guy.
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That second file is a different SoCal feed from the same Zulu time period as the first. Here is your second file from VNY SoCal and I do hear you at the beginning of it.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kvny/KVNY-App-Dec-19-2015-1700Z.mp3
 
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My Cirrus SkyWatch system did. However, this happened so fast, it wasn't much help. Plus, with my system at least, warnings in the pattern happen almost every flight. You learn to use your eyes in the pattern.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Would not ADS-B traffic have alerted you to the helicopters proximity?
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If the helicopter was in a position for ATC to receive the helicopter's mode C, then yes. Otherwise no, unless the helicopter was ADS-B out equipped. There is something to be said for the 2020 deadline; presumably everyone in transponder-required airspace will be equipped.
 
That's my airport too. Glad too hear it worked out. Lots of helo traffic there. Were you on an extended left downwind near the reservoir?
 
Reading through this I get the impression/feeling you were on the border of the ATA. It might even be you were out of the ATA. Be that as it may, you were on the helicopter's downwind of an active runway. It would be interesting to hear the chopper's side of the story - 'here I am passing by the airport, staying on the non active side of the runway and this dipwich fixed wing comes roaring head on at me .. .. .. ' (whatever)
Might be more to the story :wink2:
 
Well...maybe...but I wracked my brain on this. I was perfectly aligned with pattern (and sorry, right downwind), at the perfect altitude (2,000 feet). Departing traffic must stay below 3,000 feet, as this puts you in the BUR Class C.

Bottom line: I do not know if this guy was in KWHP airspace or not. If he wasn't, he was way too close. I have a tough time understanding - regardless of regs - why a pilot in that heavily trafficked area, near 3 airports, would not be talking to ATC. Helicopters go by ALL THE TIME, but you hear them on tower or ATC.

In my mind, even if he thinks he was outside Class D, "officially I didn't have to talk to anyone because I was outside C, D airspace" is missing the point. First, he probably was in airspace, and second, he was not using the tools available to him (ATC) to conduct a safe flight in some of the nation's busiest airspace.
 
If you've ever watched a video on youtube of a police chase taken from a news helicopter in the LA area you have seen just how crazy those news pilots can get. They all want the best shot, and I'm surprised they haven't had a collision.
 
Generally in congested areas like that, outside of D,C,B, ATC terminates service especially if operating low altitude. In Atlanta and pretty much every busy area, we talk on a common air to air (123.025) for helos. I'm sure if this guy was outside of the D, he was up that transmitting his position. If you're a FW dude and have a second radio, I'd be monitoring that freq.

Personally, I never would have been that high in a helo around that area. 500 AGL or less during the day.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
...a helicopter comes out of nowhere, direct collision course, so close I can read call sign and see the pilot. ...the helicopter ( a blue / yellow news copter) was low and not talking to anyone....
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How many news stations in your area? Did it have "News 9" or something similar on it? Do you remember the "call sign" which is what I assume you meant is the N number? If you have the N number its pretty easy to track down who owns it.
 
Timbeck2 said:
How many news stations in your area? Did it have "News 9" or something similar on it? Do you remember the "call sign" which is what I assume you meant is the N number? If you have the N number its pretty easy to track down who owns it.
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My home airport has 4 news copters and there are more close by...it's LA. I did not get the tail#, as I was focused on avoiding him and flying the plane. Oh well!

My ASRS has been filed...
 
Wow, glad you came out ok.

A slight correction to your terminology. You had a near collision, not a near miss. A near collision is where you nearly hit them but didn't. A near miss is where you almost missed, but SMACK, you hit them dead on.
 
Maybe the FAA should make a requirement requiring helicopters and their pilots to be registered.
 
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