First passenger, new passengers, and freakin' out

ChrisK

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I had the opportunity to take my 7 year old son up for 0.5 on the hobbs yesterday. I decided to take the same plane I took my checkride in which was a decided mistake. Even today I saw someone else take it out, and it is extremely underpowered...

It was a hotish day (not exceedingly, but there was some sweating going on) at about 4PM. I know that 4PM is not the best time for a first ride especially on a warm day, but there I was. Once again, it took too long to get up to speed and climb off the runway, but I managed to get it up into the afternoon turbulent air.

I was really afraid that the bumps were going to freak my boy out, but man was he a trooper. He was having the time of his life, so I took him out to another local airport to do a landing and look out the window a bit. He didn't show ANY signs of wanting the ride to end. The only reason I cut it short is because the bumpy afternoon heat was making the ride not fun for ME.

In the end he said the only bumpy parts were my landings. Everyone's a critic...

So today (at about 9:15 am) I took the 2nd most timid of the 5 kids up (in a more normally powered airplane this time). The almost-13-year-old girl was certainly apprehensive but willing to give it a try. I should note that this is the one who, upon riding two roller coasters, swore off of them for life. I tried explaining to her that the 500FPM climb rate would be nothing like the G forces she experienced in the coaster.

She started freaking out as soon as the wheels left the ground and was in a state of panic during the entire climb out of about 90 or so seconds. There were a couple bumps (once again a clear sunny day and the temperature was increasing), but nothing near as bad as yesterday.

I explained to her (which I also had explained on the ground) that I had to climb to pattern altitude before I could turn around and land. As soon as I leveled off, she calmed down slightly, but still refused to look out the window (she later said she stole some glances out of the pilot side window during my shallow left turns in the pattern, which I had made extra shallow for her). I spun it around the pattern, did a fairly normal square pattern descent, and landed halfway decently.

On the ground, she said that she would have felt better if she had something solid to grab on to. She started to reach for the yoke a couple of times, and when I noticed I said "Don't grab that!" I am thinking that she might feel a little better in the back seat of a 172, because at least you feel a bit more enclosed back there and can always grab on to the front seat.

I hope that I just have to acclimate her to flying, but it is possible that her timidity and her sensitivity to altitude changes will preclude her from flying. Her younger (10) brother is way, way more timid than she is, and I'm not sure I can get him to even get in the plane. Of the older two boys, the almost 16 year old is willing to try it, and the 19 year old is pretty much "nope - not going to get in that thing". My wife is extremely afraid of airplanes of all sizes, but we'll see where that goes over the years. At least she is willing to let me take the kids up now that the FAA has said I'm not dangerous ;)

Any thoughts on how to calm new pax?
 
Let her grab the yoke and fly it with you, let her see that there is control that is accurate and more than that, something she is capable of. The key, key, key to everything though, this is it, the number one pay attention here...: Always make sure you are using a calm and friendly voice at all times for all things even if she grabs the yoke and yanks it to her chest. Never let her know dad is scared and not in total and not in total and complete control of everything.

That said, she may never get over it. My ex wife is a complete white knuckle flier with a funny twist to it. As long as I stay between the trees and climb for fences, she's fine. Get to 200' and she's nervous, 2000' and she's about to cry, 10,000' and you may as well have a loose cat trying to escape. The only saving grace there is I'm a utility pilot with over 1000 hrs of Ag and Pipeline patrol time who owned a twin, so flying between the trees is just fine by me.

If she smokes pot, a preflight hit might help as well.
 
If she smokes pot, a preflight hit might help as well.
Lol I assume you mean my wife and not my stepdaughter.

I had planned on letting her "fly" a bit, but given her demeanor, I didn't think that it would help. I certainly used a calm voice and the only edge I ever got was when she went to grab the yoke when I was at Vx, and even then I made sure to speak calmly yet assertively. I had anticipated that she was going to freak a little bit and at least was mentally prepared for it.

You're right. She might not get over it. I will probably try again (maybe at night - she might like that).
 
Lol I assume you mean my wife and not my stepdaughter.

I had planned on letting her "fly" a bit, but given her demeanor, I didn't think that it would help. I certainly used a calm voice and the only edge I ever got was when she went to grab the yoke when I was at Vx, and even then I made sure to speak calmly yet assertively. I had anticipated that she was going to freak a little bit and at least was mentally prepared for it.

You're right. She might not get over it. I will probably try again (maybe at night - she might like that).

Night flights are awesome for sure, things are smooth and the lights beautiful. Even if the girl isn't actually flying, having her holding the yoke with the instruction to 'follow along' gives he a point of focus that disrupts the emotional and sensory overload she is in. Not much in the air a 13 yo girl is gonna be able to do that you won't be able to recover from. I had another 'task' that I'd set my ex to that was a good distraction for us if I had to climb, however that wouldn't be appropriate for your 13yo step daughter.
 
Hm. That's a good idea - giving her something to focus on.

The yoke I mean, not the other thing =P

If we had gone sightseeing I was going to have her follow along with the map as well.
 
Lol I assume you mean my wife and not my stepdaughter.

I had planned on letting her "fly" a bit, but given her demeanor, I didn't think that it would help. I certainly used a calm voice and the only edge I ever got was when she went to grab the yoke when I was at Vx, and even then I made sure to speak calmly yet assertively. I had anticipated that she was going to freak a little bit and at least was mentally prepared for it.

You're right. She might not get over it. I will probably try again (maybe at night - she might like that).

Why a Vx climb? For a first timer that would seem like a pretty high angle of attack considering she swore off of roller coasters?
 
Hm. That's a good idea - giving her something to focus on.

The yoke I mean, not the other thing =P

If we had gone sightseeing I was going to have her follow along with the map as well.

Start her with the preflight, explain the bits and pieces and what they do. Show her how due to the shape of structural pieces you can make something so light so strong. Empower her with knowledge, that is what most scared girls need most in their lives in general. Much of that is due to preconceptions that girls don't need/want to know this stuff which is completely false. Fear is caused by lack of knowledge and understanding for the most part and when you fill in the blanks that fear subsides... Usually... My ex, I explained the safety of altitude, and here dad was an AF pilot as well, intellectually she fully understood, emotionally though she had no control over it, but she was much older than 13. You still have a youngster there to mold, do it as best you can. Ask her where she would like to go as well. Before you do a family trip though, make sure you can get her on a at least a short trip by herself. If she can get through it once, then with her little brother sitting next to her all keyed up on the good, she has a chance of absorbing that in a positive manner and making it through the flight and getting a knowledge reference of 'well, made it ok'. If she can't make it and blows the trip for the whole family, that will put her even lower on the confidence/self esteem scale than before and it will likely spell the end of the 'family trip' dreams you may have.

Proceed with caution, but don't fail to proceed. She's gonna require a lot of effort and a lot of patience and for all that there is a chance you still won't get a positive result, however at her age I give you the odds to be able to succeed so 'good luck'.
 
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Why a Vx climb? For a first timer that would seem like a pretty high angle of attack considering she swore off of roller coasters?

Nature of my home airport - see 15G. It is a good point tho and I think she would have been happier at Vy in a 172.
 
I actually took my 7 year old son on my Piper checkout, complete with stalls and steep turns. He had a total blast. The only issue was sterile cockpit procedures on approach ("Look at that!" isn't helpful).

My wife is a bit apprehensive, but in her case it's only about not understanding the inherent stability of the aircraft, and a belief that stall = death. For her, letting her touch the controls is out of the question (at least for now), but a demo of a few straight-ahead stalls at high altitude really helped. I would not this for your daughter, as there appears to be more than just unfamiliarity there.
 
If she smokes pot, a preflight hit might help as well.

Would that be considered an emergency under FAR 91.17 (b)?

Come on, you knew someone was going to ask....
 
If she smokes pot, a preflight hit might help as well.

That seems like a bad idea. Pot can cause paranoia and on a small plane that my might be paranoia of crashing. A shot or 2 of liquor on the other hand might do the trick.
 
That seems like a bad idea. Pot can cause paranoia and on a small plane that my might be paranoia of crashing. A shot or 2 of liquor on the other hand might do the trick.

Not a chance would I sugest booze over pot for the occasion just on vomiting grounds alone. We won't even go into typical reaction modes of a drunk vs a stoner, just leave it at booze causes nausea and pot prevents it. The thing people get paranoid about on pot is the police.
 
I was thinkin....ketamine.

Seriously, 13 is wayyy too late to introduce this to a girl. She's having a hard time with her body right now as it is. :(

I guess if it were mine, I'd keep trying. But I started each of my 2 at less than 2 weeks old. By two years old they had each mastered oxygen.
 
I was thinkin....ketamine.

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Seriously though, it didn't work on my ex...:sigh::lol:

Actually, she's just at the age where if he plays it just right, there is a chance he can help her with both sides of the coin there giving her confidence if she gets through this which appears to be a highly traumatic issue. If she makes it through this she may have the confidence to make it through the rest. The cool thing is while she may think this is the hardest, it may actually be the easiest. It worked on a 14 yo niece...:dunno:
 
My kids were teens when I took them for their first flights. Oldest daughter considers herself a bit of a daredevil, and she had no problems at all. Youngest daughter is the one I was worried about - she's also the kind who's deathly afraid of roller- coasters and pretty much anything that is outside the 1G+/- 0.1 range, and was about 13yo, too. I made sure to calmly tell her what was going to happen, what she was going to feel, and to let me know if she ever felt uncomfortable. She sat in the back and was asleep within minutes. After we landed I asked her how she felt. She said she didn't realize that flying in small airplanes was so cold. I finally figured out that the rear air vent had been wide open and she had been too timid to say anything about it, telling herself that this must just be normal. From then on I've always made sure to show pax where the air vents are.

That daughter has now flow in some really bad turbulence with me, she just hangs onto her seat and rides it out. She actually surprises me.

Just a note on putting skittish passengers in the back seat - make sure you do a good job of staying coordinated. The back seat passengers will feel it way more than you think.
 
My kids were teens when I took them for their first flights. Oldest daughter considers herself a bit of a daredevil, and she had no problems at all. Youngest daughter is the one I was worried about - she's also the kind who's deathly afraid of roller- coasters and pretty much anything that is outside the 1G+/- 0.1 range, and was about 13yo, too. I made sure to calmly tell her what was going to happen, what she was going to feel, and to let me know if she ever felt uncomfortable. She sat in the back and was asleep within minutes. After we landed I asked her how she felt. She said she didn't realize that flying in small airplanes was so cold. I finally figured out that the rear air vent had been wide open and she had been too timid to say anything about it, telling herself that this must just be normal. From then on I've always made sure to show pax where the air vents are.

That daughter has now flow in some really bad turbulence with me, she just hangs onto her seat and rides it out. She actually surprises me.

Just a note on putting skittish passengers in the back seat - make sure you do a good job of staying coordinated. The back seat passengers will feel it way more than you think.

This is what I find the most important thing with new pax, especially kids. Explain it all to them and never let you voice quaver for an instant. You can be spinning down on fire and you best sound like you're tucking em in for bed.
 
Find a handsome 17 yr old male pilot and I bet she gets interested.;)
 
Just a note on putting skittish passengers in the back seat - make sure you do a good job of staying coordinated. The back seat passengers will feel it way more than you think.

I've been in the back enough to know what that feels like. It isn't fun!
 
Find a handsome 17 yr old male pilot and I bet she gets interested.;)

The guy could have Justin Bieberish looks but if he's chosen for her by Dad it won't work. Now if there was some kind of wannabe top gun type who Dad didn't like too well she would most likely go for that individual.
 
I've been in the back enough to know what that feels like. It isn't fun!

Tell that to My Ol' Lady! Took her and her daughter for a ride in a rented 172.
First trip out for both of them.
Dau. in front seat, Ol' Lady in back. (back seat armor-all coated)
While in cruise, I found that I was fighting the rudder peddels, or they were fighting me. I look back to find Th' Ol' Lady happily sliding side to side in the back seat.
 
I was thinkin....ketamine.

Seriously, 13 is wayyy too late to introduce this to a girl. She's having a hard time with her body right now as it is. :(

I guess if it were mine, I'd keep trying. But I started each of my 2 at less than 2 weeks old. By two years old they had each mastered oxygen.

I strongly second this notion. We started our kids flying before they could walk. They look at it as no different than driving.

The only passenger I've ever had freak out was a 12 year old boy. I am eternally thankful that his mom was in the back seat with him, or God knows what he might have done.

In fact, since that episode my rule has been to NEVER take kids flying for the first time without another adult on board. This has reduced my payload to just two Young Eagles at a time, but that's my rule, and I stick with it.
 
This is what I find the most important thing with new pax, especially kids. Explain it all to them and never let you voice quaver for an instant. You can be spinning down on fire and you best sound like you're tucking em in for bed.

Then mutter, "Oh my God!" over the intercom and watch them freak out until you add, "That reservoir is really low this year! Do you see that?!"

LOL!
 
Then mutter, "Oh my God!" over the intercom and watch them freak out until you add, "That reservoir is really low this year! Do you see that?!"

LOL!

I reserve my 'fun and games' for the adults....;) Kids I don't mess with until they're having fun and feel comfortable.
 
My wife was absolutely terrified when we were about to go for her first flight. Having her help with a thorough preflight helped somewhat. A smooth takeoff and climb out helped more, and a lap around our house helped too.

What helped the most, though, was showing her that we actually didn't fall from the sky and die in a horrible fireball. Go figure. I think the sweetest words I've heard from her all year had to have been, "The next time we fly somewhere..." :)
 
I reserve my 'fun and games' for the adults....;) Kids I don't mess with until they're having fun and feel comfortable.

Oh I showed my buddies kid where the bombs drop out of the cherokee and what switch on the panel triggered the ejection seat. Unfortunately, I did have my machine guns mounted on the Cherokee that day.
 
I'm very lucky that all of my passengers have been relatively calm.

In fact, right after I got my private in 2003, I took my mom up for a ride. She is a complete worry-wort, so I had all sorts of plan Bs, Cs, etc. It was a two-hour X-C to look at some real estate. She fell asleep, and I thought she wasn't enjoying it.

Little did I know that one of the best indicators that your are doing a good is that the pax falls asleep!
 
I've flown somewhere just north of 100 Young Eagles. Many of them were first time passengers and have yet to have one react badly. I hope it stays that way ;)
 
Oh I showed my buddies kid where the bombs drop out of the cherokee and what switch on the panel triggered the ejection seat. Unfortunately, I did have my machine guns mounted on the Cherokee that day.

I've had a few passengers ask about the trim switch and AP disconnect button on the control wheel. My standard response is, "This is to switch between missiles and guns, and this is to fire."
 
[snip]In fact, since that episode my rule has been to NEVER take kids flying for the first time without another adult on board. This has reduced my payload to just two Young Eagles at a time, but that's my rule, and I stick with it.

This is my rule as well. I've never had one freak out, but if they do, I want someone else to deal with them.

John
 
They're kids... One tap with a hand held Tazer straightens them right up.
 
Little did I know that one of the best indicators that your are doing a good is that the pax falls asleep!
It also can be a sign of hypoxia or CO poisoning. Be real careful here.

I generally ask my passengers to avoid sleeping, unless the flight is really long.
 
It is amazing how many times my wife has asked me if she could do that....

My nieces and nephews knew they could get away with nearly anything with me but if they went too far I would not hesitate to zap them with a cattle prod. Their parents always wondered how I got them to obey and not fight while I watched them.:rofl:
 
My first flight with my daughter who was 5 at the time was not so good. It was a rented 172. The first 20 minutes or so were fine. Then she got bored and decided to activate the flaps with a stretched out foot. I scrambled to undo it (luckily it was slow moving electric flaps), then move her seat back even more and tell her how dangerous that was... Now I don't allow small kids in the front. They can sit in the back.
 
The only passenger I've had that seemed close to freaking out was my aunt. Pretty much the whole flight she was very, VERY quiet (not normal for her). I asked her if she was ok and she said "as long as everything is running ok". So, I showed her the oil pressure / temp and RPM gauges and told her everything was in the green and running great.

She relaxed a little after that. She claims that she'd go up again, but we'll see.
 
In the end he said the only bumpy parts were my landings. Everyone's a critic...

Haha! :rofl: That's awesome. That's a future pilot talking right there. I can't wait to be able to take up some passengers for their first experience in a small plane. Sounds like you're loving your almost one-week :eek: anniversary of private pilot status!
 
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