first owner oil change

Geico266 said:
Tom, trust me, when these engines are installed in experimentals that AD is DOA and good riddance. :D.
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I installed an IO-320 B1A in one of my experimental amateur built gyroplanes.
I went through the major change process because I was replacing an O-290 with a different propeller.
The Van Nuys FSDO sent two representatives up to Santa Maria to inspect the work before they issued a new airworthiness certificate, new operating limitations and a new phase one. They spent almost five hours in my hangar.
I am not the original builder so in my opinion I still need to have an A&P sign off the annual condition inspection.
I have a local FBO do the work and I feel it is money well spent.
I am not a mechanic by trade so I am pleased to have someone check my work and feel it is money well spent.
The engine has several ADs and the IA who runs the FBO would not sign off my experimental as airworthy until the ADs were complied with.
The engine was built as an experimental by local repair station and fortunately the paperwork was complete making compliance with the ADs fairly simple.
It appears to me that some here feel that once the engine is installed in an experimental it is not subject to the ADs specific to that engine.
I am fairly new to aviation so I am not as conversant with the rules as many here.
Do you feel once a certified engine is installed in an experimental that engine specific ADs do not need to be complied with?
 
Vance Breese said:
I installed an IO-320 B1A in one of my experimental amateur built gyroplanes.
I went through the major change process because I was replacing an O-290 with a different propeller.
The Van Nuys FSDO sent two representatives up to Santa Maria to inspect the work before they issued a new airworthiness certificate, new operating limitations and a new phase one.They spent almost five hours in my hangar.
I am not the original builder so in my opinion I still need to have an A&P sign off the annual condition inspection.
I have a local FBO do the work and I feel it is money well spent.
I am not a mechanic by trade so I am pleased to have someone check my work and feel it is money well spent.
The engine has several ADs and the IA who runs the FBO would not sign off my experimental as airworthy until the ADs were complied with.
The engine was built as an experimental by local repair station and fortunately the paperwork was complete making compliance with the ADs fairly simple.
It appears to me that some here feel that once the engine is installed in an experimental it is not subject to the ADs specific to that engine.
I am fairly new to aviation so I am not as conversant with the rules as many here.
Do you feel once a certified engine is installed in an experimental that engine specific ADs do not need to be complied with?
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Correct......:yes:
 
Back to my oil change...

step one...start engine and let it run for a while to heat the oil up (I forgot this step at first and the oil was slow...haha) wont forget that again.

oil filter off after engine oil drained. checked hoses, belts and looked for loose connections. all checked out ok. replaced oil filter and made my first attempt at safety wiring...

that safety wiring is tricky to get it right where you want it. took us 3 different try to get it tight and not break it. marked on the filter before i installed it. also put the appropriate info in the engine log book.

refilled oil. tomorrow I will take the spark plugs out and clean them up, then fire it up and check for oil leaks or problems while on the ground. its a new kind of pride it taken when you work on your own plane, makes you feel good knowing you checked it all out.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Great!

Please ask him to give you an answer on FAA letterhead explaining his position and to please sign it.

You can post the letter here.

Thanks!
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Nope. But you can call him yourself -- 410-787-0040. Or send him an email -- I'm sure you know how to find it. Until then, please stop suggesting that pilots violate the black-letter law on this which I quoted above unless you have such a letter yourself.

To summarize that law, this is an inspection required by regulation, and inspections are "maintenance". "Maintenance" requires an A&P (or CRS) unless it's "preventive maintenance". Since this inspection isn't one of the "inspections" authorized as "preventive maintenance" in item (30) of the PM list in the regulations, it must be signed off by an A&P or CRS.

If R&W has something official to contradict those clearly written regulations, he should post it. Otherwise, he should stop suggesting that non-A&P owner/pilots perform and sign off maintenance that is not preventive maintenance. The oil/filter change itself, no problem -- that's covered in the PM rules. But not the AD-mandated inspection which is not preventive maintenance.
 
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muleywannabe said:
Back to my oil change...

step one...start engine and let it run for a while to heat the oil up (I forgot this step at first and the oil was slow...haha) wont forget that again.

oil filter off after engine oil drained. checked hoses, belts and looked for loose connections. all checked out ok. replaced oil filter
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Properly torqued, too?

and made my first attempt at safety wiring...

that safety wiring is tricky to get it right where you want it. took us 3 different try to get it tight and not break it.
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Since you say "us", I gather you had help. Hope it was someone who already knew how to do it, but it sounds like it wasn't.

tomorrow I will take the spark plugs out and clean them up,
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You should probably also check and if necessary adjust the gaps on those plugs (got the right tools for that?), and rotate them top/bottom on the cylinders.
 
Ron Levy said:
Nope. But you can call him yourself -- 410-787-0040. Or send him an email -- I'm sure you know how to find it.
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So basically, we learned this:

(A) If Ron Levy talks to an ASI and gets an answer, we should take his word for it verbatim and don't question it. However, if another pilot ask an Inspector a question, they should provide proof of the conversation and a direct reply from said Inspector as they can't be trusted (as you referenced in this thread).

(B ) Ron has stated many times on this forum and others that you shouldn't take an Inspector's word on anything, get it in writing. Yet he excludes himself from the requirement.

(C) Ron will excoriate a pilot for explaining mechanic regulations and visa versa, and will further try to convince readers that Operations Inspectors know nothing of mechanic's regulations and are forbidden from even reading them, and vice versa. Yet Ron, a non A&P with no maintenance background whatsoever will try to convince you he is an expert on everything maintenance.

Ron Levy said:
Until then, please stop suggesting that pilots violate the black-letter law on this which I quoted above unless you have such a letter yourself.
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How about you stop posting blatantly wrong and false information on these forums?

You have no official capacity in any way shape or form, you are not a representative of the FAA, so therefore anything you write here is basically just your own opinion unless you can provide documentation (official) to back it up.

Being the self described "maven of regulations" you should know that nothing is official in the government unless it's in writing, on official letterhead and signed.
 
yes properly torqued to the specs on the filter as it says on there. kinda nice that they put that on there.

yes it was a learning experience for all but a simple one.

I will have my A&P friend and hangar neighbor go thru the spark plugs with me to assure proper gapping etc. I planned on having him there to help for that and check over my entire first time oil change process as well. He has been an A&P for over 25 years and owns 3 planes.
 
Geico266 said:
Another reason the regulations are over bearing

Tom, trust me, when these engines are installed in experimentals that AD is DOA and good riddance.
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Only when you do not want the engine to remain certified.

this is why the value of any engine ran as X will be so low.

But we are off topic again.
 
Ron Levy said:
Nope. But you can call him yourself -- 410-787-0040. Or send him an email -- I'm sure you know how to find it. Until then, please stop suggesting that pilots violate the black-letter law on this which I quoted above unless you have such a letter yourself.

To summarize that law, this is an inspection required by regulation, and inspections are "maintenance". "Maintenance" requires an A&P (or CRS) unless it's "preventive maintenance". Since this inspection isn't one of the "inspections" authorized as "preventive maintenance" in item (30) of the PM list in the regulations, it must be signed off by an A&P or CRS.

If R&W has something official to contradict those clearly written regulations, he should post it. Otherwise, he should stop suggesting that non-A&P owner/pilots perform and sign off maintenance that is not preventive maintenance. The oil/filter change itself, no problem -- that's covered in the PM rules. But not the AD-mandated inspection which is not preventive maintenance.
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I guess that when you believe that all inspections must be signed off by an A&P, you must have a A&P do your pre-flight inspections.

You are so wrong
 
muleywannabe said:
Back to my oil change...

step one...start engine and let it run for a while to heat the oil up (I forgot this step at first and the oil was slow...haha) wont forget that again.

oil filter off after engine oil drained. checked hoses, belts and looked for loose connections. all checked out ok. replaced oil filter and made my first attempt at safety wiring...

that safety wiring is tricky to get it right where you want it. took us 3 different try to get it tight and not break it. marked on the filter before i installed it. also put the appropriate info in the engine log book.

refilled oil. tomorrow I will take the spark plugs out and clean them up, then fire it up and check for oil leaks or problems while on the ground. its a new kind of pride it taken when you work on your own plane, makes you feel good knowing you checked it all out.
Click to expand...

Its all about learning, glad you tackled the job. Next time will be easier.

Cleaning plugs is a whole other issue. Might want to start a new thread! ;) :lol: :D
 
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Geico266 said:
Its all about learning, glad you tackled the job. Next time will be easier.

Cleaning plugs is a whole other issue. Might want to start a new thread! ;) :lol: :D
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I met my A&P buddy and he looked it over and said it was all good. He has my plugs and is cleaning and gapping them now.
 
RotorAndWing said:
So basically, we learned this:

(A) If Ron Levy talks to an ASI and gets an answer, we should take his word for it verbatim and don't question it. However, if another pilot ask an Inspector a question, they should provide proof of the conversation and a direct reply from said Inspector as they can't be trusted (as you referenced in this thread).
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No, just call the inspector yourself.

(B ) Ron has stated many times on this forum and others that you shouldn't take an Inspector's word on anything, get it in writing. Yet he excludes himself from the requirement.
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No, I didn't. I posted the exact language from the regulations. R&W seems to think this language can be ignored, but he has nothing to back up that statement.

(C) Ron will excoriate a pilot for explaining mechanic regulations and visa versa, and will further try to convince readers that Operations Inspectors know nothing of mechanic's regulations and are forbidden from even reading them, and vice versa. Yet Ron, a non A&P with no maintenance background whatsoever will try to convince you he is an expert on everything maintenance.
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No, just that I can read.

Being the self described "maven of regulations" you should know that nothing is official in the government unless it's in writing, on official letterhead and signed.
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I guess the regulations published on the FAA's Regulatory and Guidance Library aren't sufficient? You really need a Chief Counsel letter to tell you than a regulatorily required inspection is "maintenance" and that the inspection required by this AD is not "inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft" (the only regulatorily required inspection which is "preventive maintenance" a non-A&P pilot can do)?

Instead, you expect people to listen to you and ignore the written regulations just because you ridicule and belittle me?

Sheesh.
 
I am grateful for you efforts to explain the somewhat confusing regulations Ron; thank you.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, just call the inspector yourself.
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In other words, you've been caught again. :rolleyes2:

Remember this one?



Ron Levy said:
Instead, you expect people to listen to you and ignore the written regulations just because you ridicule and belittle me?

Sheesh.
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I don't expect anyone to do anything I say. Unlike yourself I don't come on this and other forums with a condescending and "holier than thou" attitude pretending to be something I'm not. I offered my opinion based upon experience, nothing more. You offer your opinion, based on whatever you can google, then demand others to "obey or else!"

Go look in the mirror Ron for your "ridicule and belittle" statement. On more than one occasion (hundreds?) that's exactly what you do to those that don't agree with you.
 
RotorAndWing said:
In other words, you've been caught again. :rolleyes2:

Remember this one?





I don't expect anyone to do anything I say. Unlike yourself I don't come on this and other forums with a condescending and "holier than thou" attitude pretending to be something I'm not. I offered my opinion based upon experience, nothing more. You offer your opinion, based on whatever you can google, then demand others to "obey or else!"

Go look in the mirror Ron for your "ridicule and belittle" statement. On more than one occasion (hundreds?) that's exactly what you do to those that don't agree with you.
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RW, you do like to play know it all aviation god on here quite a bit.

From what you say your accomplished, haven't ran ya on the registry but I'm sure you're legit, funny thing is based on your posts you don't seem to ever ask a question, or want to expand your knowledge based on all the experince on this board, seems like you might believe you already know it all?

I have my ATP, CFI etc, but I know enough to know there is much I don't know, I've never seen that side of you on here, just the expert, I hope I'm wrong.
 
Stewartb said:
So are some oil absorber pads.
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And on the day you are just about to spin that filter off and didn't want to run to the store for oil pads, you might ask your lady friend for some ... ummm ... liquid absorption pads. They work quite well in a pinch (you should pardon the expression.)

Jim

.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since I never said that, no, I'm not.
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Read your own post #25.

You said, this inspection must be done by A&P/ rated persons, well a pre-flight is an inspection.

all inspections are not required to be completed by A&Ps, and all ADs are not required to be signed off by A&Ps.

You are wrong on this.
 
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muleywannabe said:
I met my A&P buddy and he looked it over and said it was all good. He has my plugs and is cleaning and gapping them now.
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Attaboy, when uncertain, get help, but you should have your bud show you how to clean plugs too, it is an owner maintenance thing. never know when you might need to do that when he's not around.
 
Ok one thing I didn't see was a comment about lubrication on the filter gasket. Some people use new oil. I use DC-4
 
muleywannabe said:
these steps I know:
take cowling off
bottom cowling off
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Since the thread has devolved into a ****ing contest, I have not read the whole thing so I don't know if what I have to say has come up.

The first time I changed my oil, I removed all the cowling, etc. When I told a friend about it, he said, "That's nice, but why didn't you just use this quick-drain here?"

So check to see if you have a quick-drain before you take all the cowling off.

Tim
 
timrb said:
Since the thread has devolved into a ****ing contest, I have not read the whole thing so I don't know if what I have to say has come up.

The first time I changed my oil, I removed all the cowling, etc. When I told a friend about it, he said, "That's nice, but why didn't you just use this quick-drain here?"

So check to see if you have a quick-drain before you take all the cowling off.

Tim
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Ya got to take the cowling off to change the filter, clean up the mess and check for leaks afterward...:wink2:
 
You can use the plastic bag the filters come in to wrap the old filter and carefully remove it without spillinga drop. Out of 10 tries iI was able to do it once. :lol:

The trick is loosen the filter first, and take your time turning it off.
 
Spoke with Tom's PMI at the SEA FSDO (Bob Archibald), who agrees with me and the Airworthiness people at my local FSDO that the inspection required by the AD under discussion does not qualify as preventive maintenance, and so must be performed by or under the direct supervision of a licensed mechanic, and signed in the maintenance records by that mechanic.
 
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