First of 4 Pilots indicted for lying on Medical is Sentenced.

MauleSkinner said:
I don’t see anything that indicates this is being suppressed.
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Suppressed was probably the wrong word. This article just proves that the faa hires people with zero moral compass. This guy has absolutely no business working in a position that wields so much power over others. What a piece of crap. Blatant corruption
 
Jonathan Stein said:
Suppressed was probably the wrong word. This article just proves that the faa hires people with zero moral compass. This guy has absolutely no business working in a position that wields so much power over others. What a piece of crap. Blatant corruption
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Replace “FAA” with any hiring entity, and the sentence is still accurate.
 
I've got hearing aids that can be set to produce some tinnitus masking noise.
 
Jonathan Stein said:
Suppressed was probably the wrong word. This article just proves that the faa hires people with zero moral compass. This guy has absolutely no business working in a position that wields so much power over others. What a piece of crap. Blatant corruption
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MauleSkinner said:
Replace “FAA” with any hiring entity, and the sentence is still accurate.
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I once played in an amateur symphony orchestra that had a sizable endowment for an organization of that type. They accidentally hired a guy with a criminal record to be their executive director, and he ended up embezzling every nickel they had. (They must not have done a criminal background check.)
 
Jonathan Stein said:
Suppressed was probably the wrong word. This article just proves that the faa hires people with zero moral compass. This guy has absolutely no business working in a position that wields so much power over others. What a piece of crap. Blatant corruption
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Assuming it is true! Given that this story doesn't seem to show up anywhere else on the internet, I wouldn't assume the truth of it.
 
Kristin said:
Assuming it is true! Given that this story doesn't seem to show up anywhere else on the internet, I wouldn't assume the truth of it.
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I think it’s true. There are multiple cases of airlines taking away pilots medical certificates when they raise questions about the airlines safety. Look up dr Altman and karlene petit
 
Jonathan Stein said:
I think it’s true. There are multiple cases of airlines taking away pilots medical certificates when they raise questions about the airlines safety. Look up dr Altman and karlene petit
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That case came up here, in a thread about the nomination of Steve Dickson to the post of FAA Administrator.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/new-faa-head-nominated.117591/#post-2741267

A complaint to the Illinois medical licensing board about Dr. Altman was discussed here:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...-license-over-alleged-threat-to-pilot.120025/

Via Google I found a psychiatrist David B. Altman in Skokie, IL, who is listed as active with no disciplinary actions on an Illinois licensing site. It says that his licenses expired on Sept. 30, 2020, but I don't know whether that information is up-to-date.

https://ilesonline.idfpr.illinois.gov/DFPR/Lookup/LicenseLookup.aspx
 
flyingron said:
But if I don't read the thread, I don't show up two weeks after the last post with an assumption on the thread based solely on the post subject line.
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But if I don't show up two weeks after the last post with an assumption based solely on the post subject line, some other poster can't post that he already corrected my correction before I did.
 
Kristin said:
Assuming it is true! Given that this story doesn't seem to show up anywhere else on the internet, I wouldn't assume the truth of it.
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The Washington Examiner article on Dr. Berry posted above is eleven years old. Since then he was appointed Federal Air Surgeon, a post that he held as recently as a year ago.

https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi..._types/ame/fasmb/media/FASMB Vol 55 Num 1.pdf

He has apparently left that position, as the FAA Web site currently shows Brett A. Wyrick as the acting Federal Air Surgeon.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/officials/wyrick/

One of the pilots mentioned in the Washington Examiner article brought a lawsuit against Dr. Berry and Delta Airlines, which he lost. That decision was affirmed by an appeals court in 1998.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/138/1366/473668/
 
Jonathan Stein said:
I think it’s true. There are multiple cases of airlines taking away pilots medical certificates when they raise questions about the airlines safety. Look up dr Altman and karlene petit
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Which airlines have the power to revoke or suspend a pilot's medical certificate? Where did they get that power?

Fortunately, beliefs are protected by the Constitution.
 
Kristin said:
Which airlines have the power to revoke or suspend a pilot's medical certificate? Where did they get that power?

Fortunately, beliefs are protected by the Constitution.
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Any airline has the power to have a pilots medical revoked. They can call for a fitness for duty evaluation and then pay the doctor large sums of money to label the pilot with a false diagnosis, just like what delta did to karlene petit. Most of the time this has happened when a pilot has called an airline out for unsafe practices and the airline wants to punish the pilot. And if you are in the HIMS program the medical can be revoked much more easily whether the pilot actually did anything wrong or not.
 
Jonathan Stein said:
Any airline has the power to have a pilots medical revoked. They can call for a fitness for duty evaluation and then pay the doctor large sums of money to label the pilot with a false diagnosis, just like what delta did to karlene petit. Most of the time this has happened when a pilot has called an airline out for unsafe practices and the airline wants to punish the pilot. And if you are in the HIMS program the medical can be revoked much more easily whether the pilot actually did anything wrong or not.
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I think I will stay out of the tin foil hat territory.
 
Jonathan Stein said:
Guess you didn’t actually bother reading about petit. As they say ignorance is bliss
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You know you could just link to a credible source for people to read, instead of being an insufferable azz repetitively about it.

It is the Internet after all. We all have web browsers.
 
To be fair, the Karlene Petit case is real. Ms.Petit reported some practices at Delta she felt were unsafe. Delta sent her for a psychiatric exam with a company doctor in which she was diagnosed as bipolar. She was removed from her position for about two years and then reinstated (and her 1st class medical retained, after other psychiatrists (Mayo Clinic) determined she was not. She filed a lawsuit against Dekta claiming the bipolar diagnosis was in retaliation for her report.

I don't know the result of the litigation but this is a Labor Department decision on her whistleblower retaliation complaint. At least for that level of the proceedings the Dept said retaliation wasn't clear, but it's recitation of the facts and events is, let's say, instructive.


It came up when Steve Dickson was nominated to be head of the FAA.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
To be fair, the Karlene Petit case is real. Ms.Petit reported some practices at Delta she felt were unsafe. Delta sent her for a psychiatric exam with a company doctor in which she was diagnosed as bipolar. She was removed from her position for about two years and then reinstated (and her 1st class medical retained, after other psychiatrists (Mayo Clinic) determined she was not. She filed a lawsuit against Dekta claiming the bipolar diagnosis was in retaliation for her report.

I don't know the result of the litigation but this is a Labor Department decision on her whistleblower retaliation complaint. At least for that level of the proceedings the Dept said retaliation wasn't clear, but it's recitation of the facts and events is, let's say, instructive.


It came up when Steve Dickson was nominated to be head of the FAA.
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An interesting read. Obviously this is not the whole case, rather just the issue of whether it was necessary to weigh evidence. I am not sure that the denial of summary judgment was correct as it seems that an interview with HR, over a safety complaint, is rather odd, but I have never worked for a major airline. Regardless, the record for this motion for summary judgment does not indicate that Delta was bribing their medical examiners to reach a predetermined outcome, as Mr. Stein suggests. It may merely be incompetence, the system holding women to a different behavioral standard, or Petit might really have presented as having issues.
 
Kristin said:
Regardless, the record for this motion for summary judgment does not indicate that Delta was bribing their medical examiners to reach a predetermined outcome, as Mr. Stein suggests.
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Yeah, that’s my interpretation as well. That’d be outright fraud.
 
Kristin said:
An interesting read. Obviously this is not the whole case, rather just the issue of whether it was necessary to weigh evidence. I am not sure that the denial of summary judgment was correct as it seems that an interview with HR, over a safety complaint, is rather odd, but I have never worked for a major airline. Regardless, the record for this motion for summary judgment does not indicate that Delta was bribing their medical examiners to reach a predetermined outcome, as Mr. Stein suggests. It may merely be incompetence, the system holding women to a different behavioral standard, or Petit might really have presented as having issues.
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Agreed. That's why I said what I said about it and that I did not know the ultimate result of the litigation (and won't speculate on it). I decided not to go into an explanation of the process and standards for "that level of the proceedings," summary judgment.
 
There's way more to this than the reaction to this single complaint. Ms. Petitt, on the basis of her Embry Riddle degree, styles herself as an expert in Airline Safety. She formed her own supposed "Aviation Safety International" as well as various aviation safety blogs. She was warned by Delta prior to the incident in the above action by ALPA that her attacks at Delta management were likely going to result in them questioning her sanity. In addition to the whistleblower protection complaint above, she's also filed federal suits (both dismissed) against an airline employee and the doctor she was referred to, and ALPA (alleging they didn't advise and support her solely because she was a woman, that appears to be still pending). She's also got some self-published books railing on aviation safety and other issues (you can find them on amazon).
 
I know of one case in which UPS did the same thing to a pilot (I experted for the pilot).
That's the hazard when an airline company uses someone with whom they have a contract. IN situations as such they need to hire a true independent.

In this situation, the Chief pilot got fired.
 
flyingron said:
she's also filed federal suits (both dismissed) against an airline employee and the doctor she was referred to, and ALPA (alleging they didn't advise and support her solely because she was a woman, that appears to be still pending)
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I got curious so I looked.

In addition to the Labor Dep't petition, I find a total of five federal lawsuits, all of them pro se (no attorney representing her). I have o idea whether she filed some in state courts as well.
  • December 2017 against Delta's director of health services for "fraud, abuse of trust and defamation. The suit was filed in federal court in Georgia. Ms. Petit received an order from the court to amend her complaint show that the federal court had jurisdiction. [Technicality:] Federal courts only have jurisdiction over state law claim when they are either tied to a federal claim or the suit is between parties from different states ("diversity" jurisdiction). In the order, the court said it looked like her claims were basic state law claims and she did not allege diversity with the specificity the law requires. Rather than amend, Ms. Petit voluntarily dismissed the case in February 2018 before any response to it was filed, which leaves it open to be filed again.
  • December 2017 against the doctor who she says conspired with Delta to diagnose her as bipolar for fraud and deceit, intentional infliction of emotional distress and defamation. The suit was filed in federal court in Michigan. Turns out filing in Michigan was a mistake - she mailed it to the wrong court. So she filed a motion to withdraw the complaint which was granted later in the same month.
  • December 2017 - this is the suit against the doctor again, filed in federal court in Illinois. With no other substantial activity, she voluntarily dismissed the case in February 2018, again leaving it open to file again.
  • July 2020 against ALPA for breaching its duty to fairly represent her as required by the Federal Railway Act (a labor law which applies to railroads and airlines). The suit was filed in federal court in Washington State. ALPA filed a motion to dismiss on October 5. [Technicality] Motions to dismiss are generally based on the assumption that the facts stated in the complaint are true but that, even so, a legal claim is not properly presented. Ms. Petit's written argument opposing the motion is due November 16 and ALPA's "reply" to the opposition is due December 2 and the motion is scheduled to be considered by the court December 4.
  • October 23, she filed a second case against ALPA. It's similar to the first one but this time alleged gender discrimination. It has not yet been responded to.
 
It’s interesting her safety stuff gets described as “railing” and yet the idiot GenPop eats Sully’s every word as a similar “safety expert”, isn’t it? LOL.
 
It sounds like perhaps the doctor's big mistake was a misdiagnosis. Instead of bi-polar, OCD sounds closer, at least that is the way it looks from these cheap seats.
 
Sadly, Petit's shennanigans have led to Dr. Altman deciding to retire. He was my old professor and his contribution(s) to accuracy, and detail, were innumerable. He didn't have a threatening bone in his body.

Notwithstanding J. Stein, I will miss his 500 page transcription reports with margin notations as to what the pilot's choice of a particular word, might mean. Legions of plantiff experts would look at his reports and say, "I can't compete with that".

If any one wonders why HIMS opinions are so expensive, it is this.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I got curious so I looked.

In addition to the Labor Dep't petition, I find a total of five federal lawsuits, all of them pro se (no attorney representing her). I have o idea whether she filed some in state courts as well.
  • December 2017 against Delta's director of health services for "fraud, abuse of trust and defamation. The suit was filed in federal court in Georgia. Ms. Petit received an order from the court to amend her complaint show that the federal court had jurisdiction. [Technicality:] Federal courts only have jurisdiction over state law claim when they are either tied to a federal claim or the suit is between parties from different states ("diversity" jurisdiction). In the order, the court said it looked like her claims were basic state law claims and she did not allege diversity with the specificity the law requires. Rather than amend, Ms. Petit voluntarily dismissed the case in February 2018 before any response to it was filed, which leaves it open to be filed again.
  • December 2017 against the doctor who she says conspired with Delta to diagnose her as bipolar for fraud and deceit, intentional infliction of emotional distress and defamation. The suit was filed in federal court in Michigan. Turns out filing in Michigan was a mistake - she mailed it to the wrong court. So she filed a motion to withdraw the complaint which was granted later in the same month.
  • December 2017 - this is the suit against the doctor again, filed in federal court in Illinois. With no other substantial activity, she voluntarily dismissed the case in February 2018, again leaving it open to file again.
  • July 2020 against ALPA for breaching its duty to fairly represent her as required by the Federal Railway Act (a labor law which applies to railroads and airlines). The suit was filed in federal court in Washington State. ALPA filed a motion to dismiss on October 5. [Technicality] Motions to dismiss are generally based on the assumption that the facts stated in the complaint are true but that, even so, a legal claim is not properly presented. Ms. Petit's written argument opposing the motion is due November 16 and ALPA's "reply" to the opposition is due December 2 and the motion is scheduled to be considered by the court December 4.
  • October 23, she filed a second case against ALPA. It's similar to the first one but this time alleged gender discrimination. It has not yet been responded to.
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According to the Wall Street Journal, It looks like Dr. Petitt now has a lawyer, and she prevailed before the Dept of Labor administrative law judge and was awarded $500K in compensatory damages. Delta is expected to appeal.
Issued before Christmas, the ruling contains strong criticism of Delta’s safety culture and more broadly warns against management’s use of compulsory psychological assessments “for the purposes of obtaining blind compliance by its pilots.”
[...]
The psychiatrist who gave the initial diagnosis, which Delta paid for, years later was forced by Illinois regulators to stop practicing medicine partly due to improprieties involving commercial-pilot screening for the carrier. Under contract provisions between Delta and its pilots union, Ms. Petitt was referred to doctors from the Mayo Clinic and elsewhere for subsequent evaluations. She and Delta shared the cost of those follow-up reviews, both of which repudiated the original findings.​
https://www.wsj.com/articles/faa-ch...11609085771?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
 
denverpilot said:
Paywalled link. Sounded interesting enough to read for free... definitely not interesting enough to go dig out the credit card to re-start a decade or more dead WSJ subscription, though. LOL.
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This is a nightmare scenario, apparently diagnosed to be bipolar to shut her up.

Judge finds Delta Air Lines liable for retaliation against female pilot whistleblower (eturbonews.com)

Edit, I was able to read this WSJ article out side the pay wall, not sure why, but give it a try.

FAA Chief Had Helped Delta Retaliate Against Whistleblower, Administrative Judge Rules - WSJ


From the WSJ article: "That initial diagnosis also found her experiences years earlier—going to night school while helping her husband’s business and also raising three children under the age of three—suggested mania."o_O
 
denverpilot said:
Paywalled link. Sounded interesting enough to read for free... definitely not interesting enough to go dig out the credit card to re-start a decade or more dead WSJ subscription, though. LOL.
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Everything you would want to read, including the 114-page very detailed decision, thousands of pages of trial transcripts and even some video depositions are available for free on her attorney's website, SSMP – Professional Legal Representation. Follow the menu for "Delta Safety."
 
Looks like someone else has been reading the Petitt v. ALPA cases on RECAP.
 
It's a feature of courtlistener.com. Essentially, it's a web browser extenison. When someone pays to download something from PACER (the federal efiling systems), it stores away a copy. If someone subsequently asks for a copy, it offers up the stored version for free rather than costing ten cents a page.

RECAP is PACER spelled backward.

When I pulled the Petitt v. ALPA this morning it told me someone else had two hours earlier made the same request.
 
flyingron said:
It's a feature of courtlistener.com. Essentially, it's a web browser extenison. When someone pays to download something from PACER (the federal efiling systems), it stores away a copy. If someone subsequently asks for a copy, it offers up the stored version for free rather than costing ten cents a page.

RECAP is PACER spelled backward.

When I pulled the Petitt v. ALPA this morning it told me someone else had two hours earlier made the same request.
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Thanks. I never heard of it before.
 
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