First month of leaseback

arnoha

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jul 25, 2015
Messages
1,329
Location
Saratoga, CA
Display Name

Display name:
arnoha
Well, my plane is on leaseback (it was bought for that purpose) and it just completed its first month. I'm well aware that ordinarily leasebacks are money losers, but this plane was selected because it was most likely to do well. It matches a very busy training market here in the Bay Area. We'll see if this actually pans out...

My post here has some of the stats:

http://n194sp.aero/2016/01/10/first-month-on-the-line/

And this page has the stuff that's gone wrong:

http://n194sp.aero/squawks/

How does that match with anyone else's experience? Anyone had good luck with this?

Highlights:

  • Aaargh! AD 2007-05-10 for the seatback in the restart 172's was dealt with with a steel rod. And I missed it on inspection because I fly with the seat straight up. Kicking myself. If I fix it, it's over $3000 due to Cessna's stupid parts pricing.
  • Just short of $600 to deal with a blown tire? That's surprisingly high.
  • But surprised by the only $20 parts price for the avionics bus split switch.
  • Not listed there is $187 I haven't spent yet for the fuel pump switch. $187! For a single switch! It was a little flaky on purchase, but seems to have worked itself out with some cleaning and frequent use. (Someone explain to me why the fuel pump switch, simpler than the avionics bus switch, is nearly 10X the cost?)
Anyway, just trying to see what other's experiences are and what I could be doing better.
 
How many hours of those flying the first month, were the frequent flyers that want to be checked out in everything "Just in case", or are the guys that fly 10 hours a year and wanted to check out the new plane?


You're experience is not abnormal....

Clarify one thing, did you pay $2850 in Maint the first month? Or did this include the prebuy, annual or something?
 
How many hours of those flying the first month, were the frequent flyers that want to be checked out in everything "Just in case", or are the guys that fly 10 hours a year and wanted to check out the new plane?


You're experience is not abnormal....

Clarify one thing, did you pay $2850 in Maint the first month? Or did this include the prebuy, annual or something?

I'd say 75% of the folks flying this plane are PPL or IR students. Some flights may have been checkouts, but since there are 7 other 172 SP on the line at Trade Winds, all nearly perfectly alike (4 steam, 3 glass), I doubt folks were picking my aircraft for newness. Instead, I believe the opposite is happening. Folks have favorites, and it'll take a month or two for people to warm to my plane. (One of the reasons for having the website for the plane is to help get people comfortable with it.) It's a bone-stock 172 SP. Nothing exciting going on here.

And, yeah, I really did spend that much on maintenance in the first month. Some of that was Trade Winds, my club, being pickier about items over the last owner and Bender Aviation in Clearwater, FL. Items like cowl spacing fixed, some interior bits were cleaned up, static wicks replaced, cowl screws fixed, as it was going from owner-flown to rental. Stuff I'd put up with, renters won't.

Bender also appears to have missed some items. :( In particular, the blown tire galls me, as it probably stems from the wheel bearing being bone dry. And the seat jackscrew that was bone dry. Neither should have happened.

The bad fuel injector, I don't really fault anyone. There was zero indication that it was going to fail, until it was running on only 3 cylinders at idle. (Ran fine through the entire trip home from FL, and also ran fine on the $100 burger run I made the day after with wife and kid...except after landing at home and taxiing.) But the overbent fuel line that didn't meet the AD was also expensive and annoying.

Adding to that total was the landing light. It burned out (normal), and was replaced with a Whelen LED (expensive). Trade Winds charged me $350 for the part and I've seen it online for around $250. I have an email in with them as to why I'm paying so much for the part. A markup, I understand, but 40%?

There was a 50-hour oil change in there, too. The 49 billable hours did not include the 26 hours flying it home (a whole other story!). The 50-hour was $375. Doing the oil-change myself would save $200, but the plane wouldn't be flying while waiting for my schedule to free up. It earns more money if they do it right away.
 
Last edited:
I should also mention that the Bay Area is currently quite WET. Amazingly, El Nino is actually making moisture here in California. We're having our first set of more than normal rainfall in nearly a decade. That's keeping a lot of the PPL and even the IR students on the ground. (Freezing levels have been low, too.) My inbox is full of weather-related schedule cancellations.

January and February are likely to be the same, so I expect that monthly totals for hours will not match what is coming in the summer. January will contain the first 100-hour, too. I'm not looking forward to that. I'm sure there will be much stuff to discuss.
 
January and February are likely to be the same, so I expect that monthly totals for hours will not match what is coming in the summer. January will contain the first 100-hour, too. I'm not looking forward to that. I'm sure there will be much stuff to discuss.


Not understanding this? Why would there necessarily be that much new found during the first 100 hour inspection that wasn't already found during the pre-buy?

Reading through the other stuff it sure seems like the pre-buy was lax.
 
Yeah, the pre-buy was not up to what I would have liked. I didn't have any knowledge of the shops in FL, so I was picking somewhat at random. I picked badly.

That said, the stuff that failed would not have shown up on a pre-buy. Wheel bearings don't generally get split for pre-buy, do they? And the seat, another item that didn't get much love during the pre-buy.

Other stuff was purchased with known issues. I knew the seats would need new leather. I knew the GPS needed fixing (for which I got a price break on the plane). I knew the MFD self-test was wonky. (My fault there for not understanding that a minor item like that that I'd just ignore would get squawked all the time by renters.) I knew the compass was hard to read, but I planned to replace that with a vertical card compass anyway, so no big deal. The seatback...well, I would have like the pre-buy to note that, but it is fully legal, airworthy, and safe, so that's a judgement call. They're not going to give me a list of everything that works on the plane!

The 100-hour will have the other wheel bearings split. If they're dry, too, that's a few new bearings. I will be fixing the leather on the seats during that time as well, so that's at least a half an AMU, plus downtime for the plane. The whisky compass is getting replaced, so that's another half AMU. I guess I'm just being fearful given my inexperience and one-month track record.

So, the places the pre-buy really failed me was the induction leak, which turned out to be cheap to fix and the fuel line, which wasn't. The engine runs fantastically. All the avionics and autopilot work, except for GPS display problem, which was noted, fixed, and price adjusted. The plane makes book numbers. Book numbers! I've never flown a plane that made book numbers on the nose. So the news isn't all bad.

The dispatch rate on the plane has been great. I think only the blown tire flight resulted in unplanned downtime for the plane. It's been wet weather that's been keeping the rental numbers lower.

So, really, I view this as more personal inexperience that has resulted in high mx numbers. I let stuff go that I should have at least negotiated more aggressively. I guess I'm a bit embarrassed by my failure, but my usual salve for that is making my embarrassment public so that I have incentive to not make the same mistakes again. Yeah, I guess I'm weird.
 
Last edited:
I had two pre-buy's done here in FL, which one did you get it done at? PM me if you don't want to post it.
 
I thought about leasing back my first airplane but the financial analysis made it appear too altruistic.
 
I thought about leasing back my first airplane but the financial analysis made it appear too altruistic.

A few models and locations can pull it off. Clean training aircraft in an area with an aviation culture with critical mass can do it. Me? Aircraft: 172SP...the standard bearer for training aircraft right now. Location: SF Bay Area. Aviation culture, disposable income, check and check.

A pure personal plane would not have been an SP. No way. Too expensive for what you get. Too slow, too little useful load. But the numbers work for leaseback around here. What I did to figure that out was to figure out which planes went in and out of leaseback and which ones stayed put around here. 172SP always stayed put for years. That suggests to me the owners found it worth keeping in leaseback. Other planes, not so much. Unique flowers tend to have a lifetime of one year. (Lamenting the Cherokee Six that was only around for a year. Cheap! Huge useful load! Didn't need an IR! 7 seats! Gone...)

Now, of course, is where reality and theory meet. So far...not so good. Ask me again in six months. I'm going to keep writing on it. I didn't find many folks had done so, so I'm doing so. Finding info was hard. I'm in a one year contract, so it'll go on for at least that long. (Unless I sell the plane. That allows me to break the contract penalty-free.)
 
Yeah, the pre-buy was not up to what I would have liked. I didn't have any knowledge of the shops in FL, so I was picking somewhat at random. I picked badly.



That said, the stuff that failed would not have shown up on a pre-buy. Wheel bearings don't generally get split for pre-buy, do they? And the seat, another item that didn't get much love during the pre-buy.



Other stuff was purchased with known issues. I knew the seats would need new leather. I knew the GPS needed fixing (for which I got a price break on the plane). I knew the MFD self-test was wonky. (My fault there for not understanding that a minor item like that that I'd just ignore would get squawked all the time by renters.) I knew the compass was hard to read, but I planned to replace that with a vertical card compass anyway, so no big deal. The seatback...well, I would have like the pre-buy to note that, but it is fully legal, airworthy, and safe, so that's a judgement call. They're not going to give me a list of everything that works on the plane!



The 100-hour will have the other wheel bearings split. If they're dry, too, that's a few new bearings. I will be fixing the leather on the seats during that time as well, so that's at least a half an AMU, plus downtime for the plane. The whisky compass is getting replaced, so that's another half AMU. I guess I'm just being fearful given my inexperience and one-month track record.



So, the places the pre-buy really failed me was the induction leak, which turned out to be cheap to fix and the fuel line, which wasn't. The engine runs fantastically. All the avionics and autopilot work, except for GPS display problem, which was noted, fixed, and price adjusted. The plane makes book numbers. Book numbers! I've never flown a plane that made book numbers on the nose. So the news isn't all bad.



The dispatch rate on the plane has been great. I think only the blown tire flight resulted in unplanned downtime for the plane. It's been wet weather that's been keeping the rental numbers lower.



So, really, I view this as more personal inexperience that has resulted in high mx numbers. I let stuff go that I should have at least negotiated more aggressively. I guess I'm a bit embarrassed by my failure, but my usual salve for that is making my embarrassment public so that I have incentive to not make the same mistakes again. Yeah, I guess I'm weird.


I think you'll be fine. It'll only hurt for a little while. Big lesson learned: You save a LOT of money with a REALLY picky pre-buy by a VERY detailed mechanic. They're worth finding and using for that.

I think the seat is the one that surprised me the most. With the AD and the history of Cessna seats, I've not met even a mediocre mechanic who isn't all over the seats in Cessnas with a fine tooth comb. In the case of the older 182s, literally with a micrometer... to meet the requirements of the seat track AD.

Oh well. Once you find all this junk it won't be recurring stuff. Like I said, it'll only hurt for a little while. Problem will be, it'll likely eat all the profits for a year or two.
 
Why even bother?

Shockingly, it's technically an airworthiness item, so any aircraft that might be visited by a DPE wants this to be right.

Basically, it's one of the required placards in POH. As they are required by the POH governing this model, it is not airworthy without the full set. Which seems weird, as the control lock isn't even permanently attached to the plane!

It's just cheap insurance that I don't ruin some poor student's checkride. Right or wrong, it's not enough money to risk having some DPE get technical about it.
 
Armen, I am copying below Jason Hegel's leaseback advice. Years ago he hit this board like a ton of controversial bricks, but never mind - he did post this leaseback advice which is actually pretty good. I hope you find it helpful.

Posted by Whirlwind (Jason Hegel) on 5-4-2005:

First, I want to give a tribute to Ron Levy, for his great checkride advice post. He was the inspiration for this.

Second, this was written over a year ago, and I’ve updated it a bit. Those of you who have read this before might notice the differences.

Captain Jason’s Leaseback Advice:

1. Leasebacks are a business, always treat them like one. Never get emotionally attached to a leaseback airplane, it will get abused just like a rental car does, and you don't go seeking those out when you buy a used car, do you? Put leaseback aircraft in corporations, run their books separately, have a separate tax return for the aircraft each year, etc. Talk to your CPA and lawyer, make sure you understand both the legal and tax issues.

2. You can make a lot of money with a leaseback. You can lose a lot of money with a leaseback. Many of the factors of making/losing money are completely outside of your control. If your goal in a leaseback is to have someone else pay for your personal airplane, you probably are not going to be happy with the result. If your goal is to defer the cost of your own flying, get your ratings, and perhaps make some money on the side, you can do well if you pick the right FBO/flight school to do business with.

3. If you leaseback an aircraft to an honest FBO, you have a chance to do well. If you leaseback an aircraft to a crook, you have no chance at all. Get to know with whom you are doing business. Ask around the airport, talk to the other owners, etc. Be careful of any FBO that pushes you to get into this too quickly. The best will be honest and upfront about the risks and will caution you to avoid it if you have doubts. Talk to other owners at the FBO, find out how they have been treated.

4. You must run the numbers from a realistic viewpoint, remember this is a business. Take what you're paid each hour by the FBO and subtract the per hour costs such as fuel and maintenance reserves (if you don’t, that $15,000 engine is going to surprise you). That figure is your actual hourly income (the rest does not exist for this calculation) Take the monthly fixed costs and divide them by that "true" per hour income. That is the number of hours the aircraft must fly each month to break even. The monthly fixed costs must include insurance, tie-down, and the "payment", even if there is no payment on the aircraft. The cash you might pay for an aircraft has value, if you don't include it in the monthly fixed costs, you're letting the FBO use your money for free. So add in what the payment would be if you had one.

5. You're still a renter, you just rent one specific aircraft for a reduced rate, but you're still a renter and must schedule your flights along with everyone else. Do you have the right to bump paying customers? If so, how much notice must you give? If you are inclined to "bump" paying customers for your own flying very often, you're probably a poor leaseback candidate. You'll upset those customers and you'll be hurting your own income stream. Find out about renting other airplanes at the FBO for a discounted rate if your plane is down, or otherwise busy. Everything in a leaseback is negotiable, so ask!

6. The standard leaseback agreement is the basic 80/20 plan. You get 80% of the per hour rental rate, the FBO gets 20%. Out of your 80% you pay fuel, insurance, tie-down, maintenance, and the "payment" for the aircraft (again, this has nothing to do with actually having a bank loan or not, it is the monthly value of the money invested into the airplane). Some FBOs do leasebacks differently, and if you run across one of them, be really sure of what they are offering before you sign on the dotted line.

7. FBOs like leasebacks because it removes all the risk from them. They get 20% of the rental rate, yet do not have to own or maintain a fleet of airplanes (and sometimes they make money off the maintenance). You absorb all that risk. In exchange for that risk, you have the chance to make some money, and you'll be able to fly for about half the price of renting (or less).

8. The best leaseback deals are on aircraft that fly a lot of hours each month. A Cessna 172 that flies 80 hours a month will almost always make money. A Piper Arrow that flies 20 hours a month will almost always lose money. The breakeven point on most single engine airplanes is around 50 hours and the leaseback becomes really worth doing from a profit perspective at 65 hours. I know of a case where a Piper Arrow was leased to a flight school and it flew 60 hours over 8 months. The owner lost a lot of money in insurance and maintenance. I also know of a case where a Cessna 172 was leased to a flight school and it flew an average of 87.2 hours a month over a 12-month period, the owner made a fair amount of money that year.

9. Don’t put a brand new airplane on leaseback, they lose too much value the first few years and are very quickly not new anymore when on a rental line. An example is the 1999 172SP I bought. I paid $124,000 for it with a fresh engine installed. It would cost about $209,000 to buy that plane new, in its current configuration (in 2004). Since even a new plane looks used very quickly on a rental line, I saved $80,000 (or about 1/3 the price) in exchange for having 2,200 hours already on the airframe. Those hours do not affect the rental rate. There is one exception to this rule however, and that is the new 50% bonus tax deduction signed into law by President Bush. If you have a need for a $150,000 tax deduction this year, buying a brand new 172SP for $209,000 does make sense, because of the unusual tax benefits offered by the new law.

10. Only do a leaseback if you can afford to own the airplane without the leaseback. Used aircraft can be expensive the first few months you own them. Don't expect to take anything home the first six months. People who already have money seem to do well with leasebacks. Those who really cannot afford an airplane in the first place seem to do poorly. These are generalizations of course, but there is an old saw that says it takes money to make money.

11. Buy the right aircraft, the right way. You can do everything else right, but if you buy the wrong aircraft or pay too much, you'll lose every time. This doesn't mean pick a Cessna 172 over a Piper Warrior, this means pick the right Cessna 172 or Piper Warrior. Some airplanes just shouldn't be leased back. A Mooney or Bonanza are good examples. Very old airplanes often make poor leasebacks as well. The only airplane older than about 25 years I'd leaseback would be a Cessna 150. You want something reliable with a known history. Avoid the very high time and very low time airplanes. Avoid an airplane that hasn’t flown much recently. An airplane that has had 500 hours put on it in the past 10 years will have a lot of things break when the flight school puts 500 hours on it in 6 months. I’ve seen this happen to others and it happened to me with my 172N.

12. You must sometimes spend money to make money. People want to rent airplanes with nice interiors and good panels. If the per hour rental rate is equal, would you rather fly in a Cessna 172 with ARC radios and no GPS, or a full Garmin panel? The new panel and a new interior might add 20% to the price of the airplane but double your monthly profit.

13. Look over the past two years records of similar airplanes at the FBO you’re looking at doing business with. Not just the total hours flown, but how much has been spent on maintenance and how much total income there was after all costs. There is no more honest way to see what to expect than to look at the real world figures from existing aircraft on the FBOs rental line. Do not leaseback to anyone who won't show you the records on the existing airplanes and introduce you to the other aircraft owners.

14. Think long and hard about why you're doing this. Many people get into leasebacks for all the wrong reasons, make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. A leaseback can make sense for some people, it can be a disaster for others. It generally isn't a good way to go about having someone else pay for your own personal airplane, since it will wear faster and not be cared for as well as if it were your own. In addition, you're limited in what you can do with it, given that you still have to schedule it and can’t take it very far without it costing you a lot in lost income. It can however provide you with your ratings, some money, and some low cost flying if managed well.

15. To sum it up, a leaseback is often used to reduce the cost of flying, sometimes it is used to make money, sometimes it is used as a tax shelter (consult your tax advisor on this one). The months I did a lot of personal flying, I tended to break even, and have lost money a few months, but then if you consider what my flying would have cost otherwise, I came out way ahead. If you can't afford to own regardless of the leaseback income, consider that you're making a serious commitment and while it is very easy to buy a plane, it can be hard to sell one.

For the record, I had three aircraft on leaseback with two different flight schools at Addison. A 1977 Cessna 172N, a 1999 Cessna 172SP, and a 1997 Schweizer 300CB helicopter. I did well with the older 172 and the helicopter, the 172SP mostly broke even, but I did fly it about 100 hours personally without paying a dime, so it wasn’t too bad. I earned my commercial and CFI license in both airplanes and helicopters, flew almost 500 personal hours between all the aircraft, and came out $36,000 ahead at the end of the day. I sold them once I was done flight instructing, and have since bought a Piper Twin Comanche for my personal use. I considered leasing it back, but choose not to because I want it available to fly whenever I want to go, one thing that isn’t possible with a leaseback.
 
Last edited:
That is one expensive tire tube and bearing
 
Shockingly, it's technically an airworthiness item, so any aircraft that might be visited by a DPE wants this to be right.

Basically, it's one of the required placards in POH. As they are required by the POH governing this model, it is not airworthy without the full set. Which seems weird, as the control lock isn't even permanently attached to the plane!

It's just cheap insurance that I don't ruin some poor student's checkride. Right or wrong, it's not enough money to risk having some DPE get technical about it.
Does it specify it has to be that part? If not, I'd just print the placard on some thermal label and slap it on!
 
Does it specify it has to be that part? If not, I'd just print the placard on some thermal label and slap it on!


I was going to ask that, and I've certainly seen it done if there's no specific requirements the placard be a specific part number. Saw on rental that had "placards" made out of P-Touch tape everywhere once. Haha. Don't know if it was legal but it flew just fine.
 
I was going to ask that, and I've certainly seen it done if there's no specific requirements the placard be a specific part number. Saw on rental that had "placards" made out of P-Touch tape everywhere once. Haha. Don't know if it was legal but it flew just fine.

IMG_20160112_203658 (2).jpg

That's what's in the POH. And this is why I posted this here. :)

Dunno if the Director of Maint or school owner will go for it, but I can try. Delicate dance. I'm the owner and have last say, but ****ing them off doesn't work in my favor, either. Must pick my battles. Maybe I'll test the waters with this one.
 
That is one expensive tire tube and bearing

What I thought. Here's it broken out:

$185.00 072-314-0 Tire, Condor 600x6 6ply
$121.00 092-500-0 TUBE: 600-6, TR20
$74.52 13889 Bearing Cone
$56.98 13836 Bearing Cup
$154.00 1.4 hours Labor

What do you think it should have cost?
 
Armen, I am copying below Jason Hegel's leaseback advice. Years ago he hit this board like a ton of controversial bricks, but never mind - he did post this leaseback advice which is actually pretty good. I hope you find it helpful.

Yep, I've read that. Very useful.

1. Leasebacks are a business. Check.

2. You can make a lot of money with a leaseback. You can lose a lot of money with a leaseback.
Check.

3. If you leaseback an aircraft to an honest FBO, you have a chance to do well.
I vetted them. We'll see what my experience turns out to be.

4. You must run the numbers from a realistic viewpoint, remember this is a business.
Spreadsheets galore, check.

5. You're still a renter, you just rent one specific aircraft for a reduced rate, but you're still a renter and must schedule your flights along with everyone else.
Aware, check.

6. The standard leaseback agreement is the basic 80/20 plan.
My deal is slightly better, 18% management fee.

7. FBOs like leasebacks because it removes all the risk from them.
I know how this works, yeah, check.

8. The best leaseback deals are on aircraft that fly a lot of hours each month.
172SP was picked for a reason, check.

9. Don’t put a brand new airplane on leaseback, they lose too much value the first few years and are very quickly not new anymore when on a rental line. 2003, so not exactly new. Check.

10. Only do a leaseback if you can afford to own the airplane without the leaseback.
I'm able. Check.

11. Buy the right aircraft, the right way.
Time will tell. Maybe this is the step I have messed up.

12. You must sometimes spend money to make money.
Aware, trying to find the balance.

13. Look over the past two years records of similar airplanes at the FBO you’re looking at doing business with.
Done this, check.

14. Think long and hard about why you're doing this.
Learning. I want to learn about aircraft ownership in a controlled environment. Make some money, if possible. Try not to lose any.

15. To sum it up, a leaseback is often used to reduce the cost of flying, sometimes it is used to make money, sometimes it is used as a tax shelter (consult your tax advisor on this one).
Understood, check.
 
View attachment 43567

That's what's in the POH. And this is why I posted this here. :)

Dunno if the Director of Maint or school owner will go for it, but I can try. Delicate dance. I'm the owner and have last say, but ****ing them off doesn't work in my favor, either. Must pick my battles. Maybe I'll test the waters with this one.


I'm sure one of our esteemed experts can say more but I think you can make one. Make it look professional and unless there's some rule I don't know about, I think you're good to go.

I wouldn't do it with P-Touch, but any good award type place that does engraved placards could make one hell-a cheaper than the official Cessna one. Probably even copy the thing so close you'd never know the difference.
 
What I thought. Here's it broken out:

$185.00 072-314-0 Tire, Condor 600x6 6ply
$121.00 092-500-0 TUBE: 600-6, TR20
$74.52 13889 Bearing Cone
$56.98 13836 Bearing Cup
$154.00 1.4 hours Labor

What do you think it should have cost?

Is there that much of a difference between 6ply and 4 ply? I've never spent $300 for a new tire and tube. Shop definitely has a luxury tax markup! Labor, considering your location, is not unreasonable.
 
Is there that much of a difference between 6ply and 4 ply? I've never spent $300 for a new tire and tube. Shop definitely has a luxury tax markup! Labor, considering your location, is not unreasonable.


Less money to replace it again next month when a student flat spots it. LOL.

Most of the flight schools around here use total crap tires. They know there will be a hole in it within three months, max.
 
I'm sure one of our esteemed experts can say more but I think you can make one. Make it look professional and unless there's some rule I don't know about, I think you're good to go.

I wouldn't do it with P-Touch, but any good award type place that does engraved placards could make one hell-a cheaper than the official Cessna one. Probably even copy the thing so close you'd never know the difference.

Actually, half that cost isn't the part...it's drilling out the rivets that hold the placard to the pin and putting in new ones.

Hella? You sure you're from Denver and not the South Bay? :lol:
 
Is there that much of a difference between 6ply and 4 ply? I've never spent $300 for a new tire and tube. Shop definitely has a luxury tax markup! Labor, considering your location, is not unreasonable.

Equipment list for the S model calls for 6-ply. I don't have a choice.
 
What I thought. Here's it broken out:

$185.00 072-314-0 Tire, Condor 600x6 6ply
$121.00 092-500-0 TUBE: 600-6, TR20
$74.52 13889 Bearing Cone
$56.98 13836 Bearing Cup
$154.00 1.4 hours Labor

What do you think it should have cost?


6x6 tire $76, 6ply is $88
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/600-6.php

Tube about the same

Not sure about the bearings, I'd have to look.

$100hr for labor to change a tire and tube, basically stuff you don't even need a AP for, that's a little steep.


Also as the owner I'd think the FBO would be paying for renters getting flats.
 
I'm sure one of our esteemed experts can say more but I think you can make one. Make it look professional and unless there's some rule I don't know about, I think you're good to go.

I wouldn't do it with P-Touch, but any good award type place that does engraved placards could make one hell-a cheaper than the official Cessna one. Probably even copy the thing so close you'd never know the difference.

I would think this would easily fall under "Owner Produced Part"
 
What I thought. Here's it broken out:

$185.00 072-314-0 Tire, Condor 600x6 6ply
$121.00 092-500-0 TUBE: 600-6, TR20
$74.52 13889 Bearing Cone
$56.98 13836 Bearing Cup
$154.00 1.4 hours Labor

What do you think it should have cost?

$122.04 http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/condor-aircraft-tire-6-00x6-6ply-072-314-0/
$68.75 http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/condor-aircraft-tire-6-00x6-6ply-072-314-0/
$34.89 http://www.amazon.com/Timken-13889-Standard-Tolerance-Straight/dp/B0071AWUFK
$16.64 http://www.amazon.com/Timken-Standard-Tolerance-Straight-Diameter/dp/B000PI5OIU
$154.00????
_______________

$396.23 Total RETAIL!!!!

they forgot the $100.00+ line item for the Vaseline....
 
Well, looks like the bad tire wasn't the bearing after all. I failed to get a picture, but I saw the tires. Massive double flat-spot from a pilot who should have known better. One burned entirely through the rubber and punctured the tube. The other burned down to the cords.

https://n194sp.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/tire-trouble/

So, there's a little money coming back for those two.
 
Cost me almost $300 for a replacement main tire. $108.75 for an Airhawk 600-6 ply and 2 hours of labor to put it in @95/hr.
 
Cost me almost $300 for a replacement main tire. $108.75 for an Airhawk 600-6 ply and 2 hours of labor to put it in @95/hr.

Interesting. About the same for me, but in complete opposite way. $185 for the Condor 600-6 6-ply, but only one hour of labor at $110/hour.

And the school/shop owner did indicate they were looking into their supplier to see if they could get a better deal. I don't have a problem with the shop marking up parts. They have to do work to get it and keep it on a shelf, and deal with problems with the parts if something is wrong. Just needs to be reasonable and transparent, and I wasn't getting that.
 
anybody that leasebacks an aircraft and does not use retreads is crazy. you will go bankrupt before long. i seldom changed a tire on a lease because it was worn out, they get flat spotted way before they wear out.

bob
 
Desser retreads. I use these only, love their wear and quality.
 
Wow WTF did that idiot pilot do to botch up the tires so bad? Looks like a super hard landing and massive amount of braking. Best of luck. I've heard some horror stories about lease backs ruining nice planes. I would not do it unless I had a worn out 172 and didn't care about it.
 
Back
Top