First IFR XC

[AndrewX]

I passed my checkride on Monday and flew from Nashville to Memphis (and back) today. MQY - M01 in a 172.

It was a great trip. It sure is different flying in those clouds without another pilot sitting in the right seat.

It was pretty cool to watch two T6’s land.

Those T6 pilots taxi just like me. (If you get the joke).



https://photos.app.goo.gl/6jLtTi1cfEwFkLSU9

 

[frfly172]

Congrats.glad you enjoyed the experience.

 

[GRG55]

Well done! Great to hear you are putting your added skills to immediate use.

 

[luvflyin]

I passed my checkride on Monday and flew from Nashville to Memphis (and back) today. MQY - M01 in a 172.

It was a great trip. It sure is different flying in those clouds without another pilot sitting in the right seat.

It was pretty cool to watch two T6’s land.

Those T6 pilots taxi just like me. (If you get the joke).



https://photos.app.goo.gl/6jLtTi1cfEwFkLSU9

Cool. How was the Wx at the airports? Were you able to get a couple loggable Approaches?

 

[AndrewX]

Cool. How was the Wx at the airports? Were you able to get a couple loggable Approaches?

No, visual at both.

 

[EdFred]

Nice! My first flight after my check ride was 5.3 with 3.5 in the soup. Like you...no loggable approaches either.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I was lucky. My first had a loggable approach (350' above minimums on an ILS). 1.3 total; 1.0 actual; 0.8 night. Far more memorable than 1st solo.

 

[A1Topgun]

Good to hear you are using your IR already. Using it in actual is the best way to stay current.

 

[azure]

My first IFR XC involved no actual at all, it was just to build my confidence in flying in the system.

My second IFR flight, though, wasn't a XC but it was a doozy: maybe 300 feet above minimums on an LPV, which I had to ask ATC for because they wanted to give me a LOC BC that would not have gotten me in; widespread low IMC; icing knocking on the door. In retrospect not a wise move (because of the icing conditions only a couple of hours away), though even my CFII at the time told me to go for it. I was certainly ready for hard IFR, but without a FIKI plane, better to give ice a wide berth.

Good on the OP for getting his ticket wet!

 

[Bill Watson]

Now that you’re legal to bust clouds, you can avoid all that convective turbulence below them by flying between them.


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[Stephen Shore]

Good job. The reason I got my IR was simply to be able to bust through cloud layers and get to smooth air. And I have enjoyed doing that immensely ever since I got my rating in May. I have had two loggable approaches since then, but I file IFR for EVERY cross country (no matter how short) and ALWAYS fly an approach whether loggable or not. This is probably not necessary (always filing IFR and always flying an approach) for the more experienced IR pilots on this board, but this is what I think I need to do to keep me proficient. Plus, with the apps we have to work with, filing an IFR flight plan is not a big deal and consumes very little time. No real reason in my opinion not to do it.

Flying in the clouds does not concern me, but being proficient with radio calls and protocol is what always has me uptight.

Good job - enjoy it!

 

[AndrewX]

Flying back to my home drome yesterday (MQY) I was given "make a left downwind for runway 19" by the tower. It's the first time I've ever seen this airport from the sky. I started my instrument training when I moved to TN and I've always been wearing foggles or in the soup or both. It took me a second to figure out how to do it the old way. I think I'll continue to mix in instrument approaches and visual approaches as I progress.

 

[AndrewX]

Now that you’re legal to bust clouds, you can avoid all that convective turbulence below them by flying between them.

Yet another benefit of the Instrument rating!

 

[M1tchell]

Looks like a good time!

Have you flown to Sikeston, MO (SIK) to eat at Lambert's yet? That was always a popular place to fly when I was at MTSU. Park the plane and call up the restaurant and they'll send a van to come pick you up, unless things have changed in the last 10 years or so. Bring your appetite though!

 

[Stephen Shore]

Looks like a good time!

Have you flown to Sikeston, MO (SIK) to eat at Lambert's yet? That was always a popular place to fly when I was at MTSU. Park the plane and call up the restaurant and they'll send a van to come pick you up, unless things have changed in the last 10 years or so. Bring your appetite though!

I have been there many years ago myself. This is the place that throws biscuits at you. Kind of odd, but that is what they are known for. Good "country" food though from what I remember.

 

[EdFred]

I don't think that flying IFR on an extreme vmc day keeps one proficient. You have to go stay in the soup or go find it and fly in it. You could stay proficient on the radio calls by just getting flight following.

 

[AndrewX]

Looks like a good time!

Have you flown to Sikeston, MO (SIK) to eat at Lambert's yet? That was always a popular place to fly when I was at MTSU. Park the plane and call up the restaurant and they'll send a van to come pick you up, unless things have changed in the last 10 years or so. Bring your appetite though!

I'll add that to the list. Maybe to the top of the list. Thanks!

 

[Bill Watson]

Good job. The reason I got my IR was simply to be able to bust through cloud layers and get to smooth air. And I have enjoyed doing that immensely ever since I got my rating in May. I have had two loggable approaches since then, but I file IFR for EVERY cross country (no matter how short) and ALWAYS fly an approach whether loggable or not. This is probably not necessary (always filing IFR and always flying an approach) for the more experienced IR pilots on this board, but this is what I think I need to do to keep me proficient. Plus, with the apps we have to work with, filing an IFR flight plan is not a big deal and consumes very little time. No real reason in my opinion not to do it.

Flying in the clouds does not concern me, but being proficient with radio calls and protocol is what always has me uptight.

Good job - enjoy it!

I file and fly IFR on every non-local flight and know that it keeps me proficient in operating in the system. If you do that for awhile you will completely lose your uptighteness with radio and ATC. Then you should keep doing it to stay proficient. And it’s just the easiest way to travel.

I don’t fly most approaches if conditions are VFR but do it on occasion to keep my button pushing skills up for coupled approaches. Keeping the approach hand flying skills up is always a challenge because of too much good weather. Here in NC we tend to have a good number of days with low ceilings in the morning. I like to go out and shoot a 3or 4 airport round robin before it lifts and I can get back home to my no approach home.

Filing all the time and flying approaches in VMC is good. Keep it up and join the pleasure pilots’ struggle to maintain proficiency!


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[M1tchell]

I'll add that to the list. Maybe to the top of the list. Thanks!

Yeah man, they have people walking around the dining room with different side items and if you want some they just put a big scoop on your plate. And when you see the guy walking around with the rolls get his attention and like Stephen Shore said, he'll launch one at you from clear across the dining room. Really good food and good times.

Congrats on your instrument rating.

 

[EdFred]

Flying IFR while VMC to stay proficient "in the system" is like playing slow pitch softball to stay proficient at baseballl. The games look the same, they are played similarly, but there is no real crossover benefit in skill.

 

[azure]

Flying IFR while VMC to stay proficient "in the system" is like playing slow pitch softball to stay proficient at baseballl. The games look the same, they are played similarly, but there is no real crossover benefit in skill.

I'd agree with that, however shooting approaches while VMC (and remaining visual, no hood) does help you stay proficient with the buttonology, if your panel includes an IFR GPS. No substitute for the real thing, though.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Flying IFR while VMC to stay proficient "in the system" is like playing slow pitch softball to stay proficient at baseballl. The games look the same, they are played similarly, but there is no real crossover benefit in skill.

I don't think that's completely true. Yes, definitely - filing IFR in VMC is not going to have the workload, approach issues, and a lot of other things which go into flying in the clouds. But there's a lot more to IFR than that. For a lot of folks, communication is also something to be practiced to retain proficiency, and VFR Flight Following is not the same.

When I was living in Denver, I got very little IMC and rarely filed IFR. One year, my wife and I were going to vacation in Orlando and I arranged to rent an airplane to visit friends and family around the state. I knew that I'd want to file IFR for at least part of the trip, but having used it so little, I was a little concerned about my comfort with the system. So I filed a simple IFR flight plan on a severe clear day (so clear that when ATC cam on to tell me, "proceed direct Fort Collins when able," I already had it i sight 40 miles away). I didn't even bother with an IAP. I just wanted to file, pick up a clearance, fly the clearance, and hear the instructions.

That little bit eased my concerns, increased my comfort level, and I happily filed IFR on the Florida trip. Got parts in IMC and flew an approach in actual. Piece of cake.

 

[aterpster]

Flying IFR while VMC to stay proficient "in the system" is like playing slow pitch softball to stay proficient at baseballl. The games look the same, they are played similarly, but there is no real crossover benefit in skill.

I don't agree. In all my light airplane flying, I would almost aways file IFR for a trip of over 200 miles, or so. It makes using the system second nature. So, when the bad IMC flight comes along the nuances of ATC and IFR procedures are second nature. And, it makes flying into a secondary airport in a Class B area so much easier.

 

[azure]

The contrarian view is that you can get nearly the same practice with radio communications by picking up flight following. It's not exactly the same thing, of course, but you practice most of the same skills. The main exception I can think of would be if you're assigned a SID or a STAR, but that's a rarity in many parts of the country.

And I file IFR on all of my XC flights too (when I'm current) - but it is mostly because I prefer the higher priority handling and extra attention from ATC.

 

[EdFred]

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but no matter which direction I go (except NE), I get about 5 frequency changes within the first 20 minutes of flight on FF (or IFR) - more if I got above 10k. So the whole communication thing is going to happen unless I go 1200. The only thing I don't hear on FF vs IFR is my initial clearance and "readback correct," which is a yawner anyway.

 

[aterpster]

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but no matter which direction I go (except NE), I get about 5 frequency changes within the first 20 minutes of flight on FF (or IFR) - more if I got above 10k. So the whole communication thing is going to happen unless I go 1200. The only thing I don't hear on FF vs IFR is my initial clearance and "readback correct," which is a yawner anyway.

With an IFR flight plan you must adhere to clearances; not so with FF. Also, with IFR when going into the maze of a Class B area ATC is responsible for Class B, not you.

 

[EdFred]

With an IFR flight plan you must adhere to clearances; not so with FF. Also, with IFR when going into the maze of a Class B area ATC is responsible for Class B, not you.

Which is not the same doing it VMC. When I fly FF, I pretty much make my own clearance, and fly as precise as I do when IFR. So maybe that's the disconnect. Even when I'm not flying IFR, I still fly as if I was as far as altitudes, holding my route, etc... Maybe everyone else just meanders when on FF. IN which case, I can see why they need to fly in the system, since they don't have their own system that parallels the IFR one.

 

[Banjo33]

So you pretend you’re IFR....not sure that’s really that different in the scheme of things.

I agree that filing and using the system is beneficial even if VMC. Like Aterpster was saying above, if you can make the comm, nav, procedural things second-nature (even if in VMC), you’ll have more SA to devote to basic aircraft control when you end up in IMC. It’s not the best way to stay proficient, but it’s a big step in the right direction and a really good way to start with extremely conservative personal minimums and begin to dial them down as experience/confort grows.

 

[luvflyin]

I'd agree with that, however shooting approaches while VMC (and remaining visual, no hood) does help you stay proficient with the buttonology, if your panel includes an IFR GPS. No substitute for the real thing, though.

Ah. Buttonology. That’s a big reason I go IFR when VMC. To practice task management. Substitute scanning the attitude instruments with scanning the sky for airplanes and it keeps me busy

 

[denverpilot]

Nice! My first flight after my check ride was 5.3 with 3.5 in the soup. Like you...no loggable approaches either.

My first post-checkride flight XC eastbound after the flight home, I was begging for altitudes that would put me inside the clouds all the way there and home.

Where... we rarely have flyable IMC for a Skylane.

I get all happy when I have a reason to go somewhere there’s real water content in the air.

 

[midlifeflyer]

When I moved from Colorado to North Carolina, although I had maintained currency, I realized I would get more clouds and needed to do some work to get back to an acceptable comfort level with regard to proficiency. Plus, I'd be flying in unfamiliar airspace. I started by filing IFR more often. Even in clear conditions, getting routings, copying and entering clearances and amended clearances, getting a routing to an unfamiliar fix (I may have some "can you spell that please" record ) were valuable experiences.

The easiest part of the transition back? Flying in the clouds. I was surprised how easy, even though I like to say only 20% of IFR is aircraft control and all the rest is about procedures.

 

[azure]

The easiest part of the transition back? Flying in the clouds. I was surprised how easy, even though I like to say only 20% of IFR is aircraft control and all the rest is about procedures.

And that is why I don't think it is asking too much of CFIs to encourage VFR-only pilots to do some recurring hood work, whether or not they ever intend to get their IR. Keeping the aircraft under control is the easiest part of flying instruments - provided you do it regularly, and know when you need to be on the gauges. Most of the training time for the IR is for learning the hard stuff, and getting the skill to talk and chew gum and the same time. But the skill to keep the plane under control is something that could save lives.

I stop short of adding it as a requirement, though.

 

[midlifeflyer]

And that is why I don't think it is asking too much of CFIs to encourage VFR-only pilots to do some recurring hood work, whether or not they ever intend to get their IR. Keeping the aircraft under control is the easiest part of flying instruments - provided you do it regularly, and know when you need to be on the gauges. Most of the training time for the IR is for learning the hard stuff, and getting the skill to talk and chew gum and the same time. But the skill to keep the plane under control is something that could save lives.

I stop short of adding it as a requirement, though.

I'm not sure I agree completely. It should definitely be practiced, but the hood work for the private certificate is for emergency use. Make the turn which will get you out of the clouds. Preferably before you ever get into them. I would be slightly concerned about a VFR pilot getting the wrong idea that he can handle himself effectively in low or non-viz conditions and pushing on when he should divert. VFR into IMC isn't about poor aircraft control. It's about bad ADM. even instrument rated pilots have VFR into IMC problems. Make a series of bad decisions, get surprised by being in the clouds, and skills get compromised as well.

My 20% is important- it changes the temporary, limited use scan of the VFR pilot into a sustainable scan less susceptible to the distractions of other tasks.

 

[EdFred]

So you pretend you’re IFR....not sure that’s really that different in the scheme of things.

I agree that filing and using the system is beneficial even if VMC. Like Aterpster was saying above, if you can make the comm, nav, procedural things second-nature (even if in VMC), you’ll have more SA to devote to basic aircraft control when you end up in IMC. It’s not the best way to stay proficient, but it’s a big step in the right direction and a really good way to start with extremely conservative personal minimums and begin to dial them down as experience/confort grows.

No, I don't pretend. I just don't meander. Pick a heading/altitude and fly it

 

[Bill Watson]

...the hood work for the private certificate is for emergency use. Make the turn which will get you out of the clouds. Preferably before you ever get into them. I would be slightly concerned about a VFR pilot getting the wrong idea that he can handle himself effectively in low or non-viz conditions and pushing on when he should divert. VFR into IMC isn't about poor aircraft control. It's about bad ADM.

I totally agree here.

I just don’t know what a VFR-only pilot does with cloud flying proficiency. Months later they are no longer proficient, how do they maintain it? With the memory of successful training, there may be a temptation to fly into deteriorating conditions sans proficiency.

Teaching awareness of the challenge and the danger along with the ability to make the emergency 180 seems right to me.


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[azure]

I'm not sure I agree completely. It should definitely be practiced, but the hood work for the private certificate is for emergency use. Make the turn which will get you out of the clouds. Preferably before you ever get into them. I would be slightly concerned about a VFR pilot getting the wrong idea that he can handle himself effectively in low or non-viz conditions and pushing on when he should divert. VFR into IMC isn't about poor aircraft control. It's about bad ADM. even instrument rated pilots have VFR into IMC problems. Make a series of bad decisions, get surprised by being in the clouds, and skills get compromised as well.

My 20% is important- it changes the temporary, limited use scan of the VFR pilot into a sustainable scan less susceptible to the distractions of other tasks.

The point is not to encourage VFR pilots to push into clouds or low viz weather, it's mostly still for emergency use as you say - but for EFFECTIVE emergency use. What the 3 hours of hood work is supposed to be for, yet pilots keep getting into trouble or killing themselves with VFR into IMC with alarming regularity. I'm saying the 3 hours in primary training isn't really enough, you need to practice the skills on a regular basis. And I don't agree 100% that it is ADM, since there are situations where it is difficult to foresee, and to really be completely certain you will not encounter instrument conditions would require being SO conservative that in some areas you would be mostly grounded.

And then there are pilots that are based in remote areas or near open water, or who need to cross open water. No flying at night? Seems a little extreme, when with a little extra recurrent training and discipline it can be done safely without the IR. It's often difficult for new pilots to anticipate when they are likely to encounter VFR instrument conditions, and unless nearly all of your flying is near populated areas, sooner or later you will encounter them. I did less than 100 hours after my checkride, in northern lower MI at twilight. I don't think that is bad ADM, but lack of experience.

The problem of instrument rated pilots losing it due to VFR into IMC is partly ADM (better knowledge of weather = should usually be able to anticipate or at least avoid tactically), but I think is also a matter of trying to stay visual when it is impossible (i.e. not realizing you need to be on the gauges), and to some extent the effects of surprise as you say, and likely some degree of panic. Does not argue, IMO, against VFR pilots getting better at controlling the plane on instruments.

 

[bobmrg]

I'd agree with that, however shooting approaches while VMC (and remaining visual, no hood) does help you stay proficient with the buttonology, if your panel includes an IFR GPS. No substitute for the real thing, though.

At least once during their training I had my instrument students fly an approach visually so that they could see how needle deflection related to terrain/obstruction clearance.

Bob

 

[iamtheari]

At least once during their training I had my instrument students fly an approach visually so that they could see how needle deflection related to terrain/obstruction clearance.

Bob

My CFII made me do it to see how small of a correction was required, after I had been over-correcting all the way down an ILS and ended up full deflection low and going missed. There are a lot of things that are hard to visualize without an actual visual reference someone in your head. Same thing for the 4-degree glideslope we have on one LPV approach at home. If you don’t see what the airport looks like from glideslope intercept, you are very likely to get weirded out about how steep the glideslope is since it’s just 1 degree more than normal.

 

[midlifeflyer]

My CFII made me do it to see how small of a correction was required, after I had been over-correcting all the way down an ILS and ended up full deflection low and going missed.

You are not alone. That is exactly the reason it is so useful. I do it early on, where I think it's more useful.

 

[Blatham489]

You are not alone. That is exactly the reason it is so useful. I do it early on, where I think it's more useful.

This. Wish I knew to do that. I did the 10day IFR thing with very little experience. Just wasn’t ready by day 11 after drinking from the firehouse. Went out and did lots of approaches VFR by myself, made a world of difference for me as I was able to digest and practice the procedures without the added task of flying under the hood. Back under the hood with the instructor to finish and it was so much easier for me.