first class medical/"substance abuse"

U

Unregistered

Guest
Hey guys,

I am a senior in high school with a private license and a 3rd class medical (faa) with plans to attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in the fall and become an airline pilot.
However, I am somewhat worried about the repercussions of having occasionally used marijuana in high school, specifically with regard to obtaining my prerequisite first class medical. I've done a little research and looked over the medical form (FAA 8500-8a) where I see there's a little box for "illegal substance use in the last 2 years". Now what do I do... can I get away with telling the truth, or would it be necessary to lie about my (very) occasional cannibus usage and if so is there some way that lying could come back and bite me in the butt?
I don't get the impression that rooting out past drug use is really the point of these examinations, but I'm worried nonetheless... can someone with facts to back them up please provide me with a little constructive insight?

Thanks a lot!
 
If the question only applies to class I medicals, the answer is simple, wait two years before the Class I medical. Then you can tell the truth. You don't NEED a class I until you need to exercise ATP privileges, which should take a couple of years anyway. So go, study, behave, and get your Class I your junior year. You can get all your ratings (including type ratings and the ATP certificate) with a class III or II.

Now, if you have to answer that question for any class of medical certificate, I'll let Dr. Bruce or another more qualified person address what may happen if you tell the truth.
 
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Do not, under any circumstance, lie to the FAA. The odds of being caught are too great, and if you are, you will never work as a Part 121 air carrier pilot. Never. I say this based on past FAA certificate actions against pilots who lied about or tried to conceal drug/alcohol issues, as well as discussions with airline pilot hiring managers when I was the director of a university aviation program.

What to do?

First, stop using! The two-year ticker starts when you stop, so the sooner you stop, the sooner you will be able to truthfully answer "yes" to that question and move on with your life.

Second, choose your friends wisely. Distance yourself from the use of illegal substances and the illegal use of legal substances (like underage alcohol consumption), and that usually means distancing yourself from those who do those things. You'll probably have to end your association with those who don't exhibit the same strong personal self-discipline you will need to find, as it's too easy to be caught up (literally or figuratively) in something that can trash your aviation future. Is that going to make you a social pariah? Well, you'll just have to decide which is more important -- the "friends" who got you into this mess or your own future.

Third, decide if you can wait a year or so to start at ERAU so you can truthfully answer that question "yes." You might do a year at a local community college, and that shouldn't hurt your progress since you already have your PPL, which puts you about a year ahead in flight training of the average ERAU entering freshman.

One last thing -- that question is not unique to the First Class medical application form. You had to answer it for your Third Class, too. How did you handle that? Or did you first use marijuana after you filled out your Third Class application? If so, that might suggest a lack of foresight in your life choices, although that would not make you unique among high school students. You'll just have to decide to make better decisions in the future if you want this career.
 
TMetzinger said:
If the question only applies to class I medicals...
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It doesn't, and I believe ERAU requires a First Class for admission to their flight training program (helps save trouble later after the student has spent $100K on the program and then can't pass the First Class exam). Yes, that's above and beyond FAA requirements, but it's their school, and their rules.
 
Ron Levy said:
It doesn't, and I believe ERAU requires a First Class for admission to their flight training program (helps save trouble later after the student has spent $100K on the program and then can't pass the First Class exam). Yes, that's above and beyond FAA requirements, but it's their school, and their rules.
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That makes sense, too, although I'd only require it for students I'm subsidizing with financing or scholarships - if somebody wants to spend money, I'm in business to take it, caveat emptor.

Your other advice I'm in complete agreement with, especially the part about NEVER lying on an application. That stuff eventually comes back to bite you, and the bite you get later is much worse than the bite you'd get if you told the truth. I've seen the same principle applied to security clearances - the government can accept a lot of honest mistakes or bad judgement, it cannot tolerate lying about it.

I'd still like to know what the likely outcome would be if he told the truth on the application, and it was truly "experimentation" i.e. "Tried marijuana on two occasions over the past 18 months, didn't like it, don't use it".
 
First off, thanks to all for such timely replies!

Well thank you Ron for your lecture about choosing my friends wisely and "foresight"... good advice, but frankly not particularly necessary. I am by no stretch of the imagination a chronic user, having smoked a grand total of twice over the last year or so, and of course do not plan to continue. I understand perfectly the parallels between respect for everyday laws and respect for the rules of the air and though this is obviously a very important concept and it may seem as though my experience with marijuana would serve to portray otherwise, I am not a rebel, I respect authority, and I don't really need to hear it again.

TMetzinger, your suggestion to wait a few years isn't really going to fly (no pun intended). And Ron's correct: The 1st Class is ERAU's requirement. But like you say, I am interested "to know what the likely outcome would be if he told the truth on the application, and it was truly 'experimentation' i.e. 'Tried marijuana on two occasions over the past 18 months, didn't like it, don't use it'." as that pretty much sums up my case exactly.

Also, and while it may seem counter productive to ask given the nature of your responses, if I were to say, "no, no drugs for me, ever"... what are they going to do, hair test me?
 
Ugh. If you want to take the risk and lie.....if you call attention to yourself any time in your coming months, you will get tested. You will get revoked, Pilot certs (for lying) and medical (which it should be). No ERAU for you, I'm afraid.

If you tell the truth, you will have a psych. evaluation and a special issuance for thre one year periods at the minimum. You can get this, but no job for you, I'm afraid.

Some of the cannabinoids stay in your system for a very, very long time.

I would not reapply for a medical until the whole three years has gone by. You need to not draw any attention to yourself. Assuming you got your medical at age 17, you can wait until your Junior year before you even remotely might need a first, or even a second.

And everything that Ron Levy says is true. Pilots are not allowed the largesse that we give politicians. The real problem is that you need to chose Grass or Aviation. The two will collide and the results will not be nice.
 
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You might want to take a look at 61.15 and 91.17. If you get caught using or caught in a lie about using you are screwed. The Federal Aviation Regulations aren't the worst part though. The worst part is you'll never be hired by anyone.

You are smart enough to know what is right and what is wrong. The notion that 'everyone' is doing it is also stupid. There really is no excuse given your choice of career.

I do not believe that there is any drug test involved for at least the 3rd class. You should reevaluate your decisions at this point and choose a career more suited for your decision making skills. Like burger flipping or perhaps a career involving photoshop.
 
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Unregistered said:
Also, and while it may seem counter productive to ask given the nature of your responses, if I were to say, "no, no drugs for me, ever"... what are they going to do, hair test me?
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Two posts by an unregistered user directly and indirectly suggesting lying to the FAA - about drug use no less?

Doesn't feel legit to me.
 
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Unregistered said:
First off, thanks to all for such timely replies!

Well thank you Ron for your lecture about choosing my friends wisely and "foresight"... good advice, but frankly not particularly necessary. I am by no stretch of the imagination a chronic user, having smoked a grand total of twice over the last year or so, and of course do not plan to continue. I understand perfectly the parallels between respect for everyday laws and respect for the rules of the air and though this is obviously a very important concept and it may seem as though my experience with marijuana would serve to portray otherwise, I am not a rebel, I respect authority, and I don't really need to hear it again.
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That's about as anti-authority as you can get. Ron was Chief Pilot for a State run part 141 school, and sits on the University Education Committee. Yes you need to hear it again. So I'll tell you, after the above quoted response, you clearly have NO BUSINESS in aviation. Sorry to be that hard, but there is no distinction between "chronic user" and "occasional user" . They are both forbidden and for good reason. See the Pappas accident string on the red board.
TMetzinger, your suggestion to wait a few years isn't really going to fly (no pun intended). And Ron's correct: The 1st Class is ERAU's requirement.
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Then no ERAU for you.
But like you say, I am interested "to know what the likely outcome would be if he told the truth on the application, and it was truly 'experimentation' i.e. 'Tried marijuana on two occasions over the past 18 months, didn't like it, don't use it'." as that pretty much sums up my case exactly.

Also, and while it may seem counter productive to ask given the nature of your responses, if I were to say, "no, no drugs for me, ever"... what are they going to do, hair test me?
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Well, cannabinoids have been found up to four years out, so that might not be necessary.

Go ahead and lie. "It's okay if you don't get caught...."....not. Sigh. How about a taxicab?
 
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Hmm I guess some people would rather try to be my parents and discuss peer pressure and "decisions" instead of offer constructive advice. Again, I've heard it all... and that's why I don't engage in "risky behaviors" with the exception of the two times in my life that I have used marijuana, and why I don't plan to in the future.

Yes bbchien, I have already perused 8500-8, and could pass it easily with the exception of the issue at hand. However, as has been stated, it is my university's policy that all incoming professional flight students have a first class medical.

Oh and BTW Ron this was not an issue for my Third Class.
 
Unregistered said:
Hmm I guess some people would rather try to be my parents and discuss peer pressure and "decisions" instead of offer constructive advice. Again, I've heard it all... and that's why I don't engage in "risky behaviors" with the exception of the two times in my life that I have used marijuana, and why I don't plan to in the future.

Yes bbchien, I have already perused 8500-8, and could pass it easily with the exception of the issue at hand. However, as has been stated, it is my university's policy that all incoming professional flight students have a first class medical.

Oh and BTW Ron this was not an issue for my Third Class.
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The best advice here is above. We do not want to share the sky with you. I'll echo Bruce's words..Have you considered a taxi?
 
TMetzinger said:
That makes sense, too, although I'd only require it for students I'm subsidizing with financing or scholarships - if somebody wants to spend money, I'm in business to take it, caveat emptor.
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More like "caveat educator." You'd be amazed at the lawsuits universities fight from former students who felt they were cheated out of a pile of money with false promises of fame and glory without risk or work.
 
Unregistered said:
Hmm I guess some people would rather try to be my parents and discuss peer pressure and "decisions" instead of offer constructive advice. Again, I've heard it all... and that's why I don't engage in "risky behaviors" with the exception of the two times in my life that I have used marijuana, and why I don't plan to in the future.

Yes bbchien, I have already perused 8500-8, and could pass it easily with the exception of the issue at hand. However, as has been stated, it is my university's policy that all incoming professional flight students have a first class medical.

Oh and BTW Ron this was not an issue for my Third Class.
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nddons said:
Two posts by an unregistered user directly and indirectly suggesting lying to the FAA - about drug use no less?

Doesn't feel legit to me.
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Or worthly of legitimate responses - especially since this alleged 17 year old knows all the answers anyway.
 
Unregistered said:
Hmm I guess some people would rather try to be my parents and discuss peer pressure and "decisions" instead of offer constructive advice. Again, I've heard it all... and that's why I don't engage in "risky behaviors" with the exception of the two times in my life that I have used marijuana, and why I don't plan to in the future.
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You heard it all but chose to some anyways. That shows some very questionable judgment on your part and a lack of maturity. You are not ready to proceed from the next level based on your statements alone. There is hope for you since you recognize your abhorrent behavior in some regards. The right thing to do is wait the two years and sin no more. Yes, that is a little bit of a pain for you but it is the right thing to to do and your will have learned there are consequences for your action.

jesse said:
The best advice here is above. We do not want to share the sky with you. I'll echo Bruce's words..Have you considered a taxi?
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Wise words Jesse.
 
bbchien said:
Ron was Chief Pilot for a State run part 141 school, and sits on the University Education Committee.
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Being the pedant that I am, I must correct Dr. Chien. I was the director of a university aviation program, not the Chief Pilot of a Part 141 flight school. Also, the exact title of the committee to which I belog is the University Aviation Association's* Flight Education Committee, of which I am the outgoing chair, not just a member, and ERAU is a member of the UAA.

*"The University Aviation Association (UAA) is the voice of collegiate aviation education to its members, the industry, government and the general public. Through the collective expertise of its members, this nonprofit organization plays a pivotal role in the advancement of degree-granting aviation programs that represent all segments of the aviation industry." See http://www.uaa.aero for more.
 
Unregistered said:
I am not a rebel, I respect authority, and I don't really need to hear it again.
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I guess the reason I can't quite believe such a statement is that you also say you're willing to lie to get what you want if you won't get caught. Does that explain why I don't believe you really "respect authority and ... don't really need to hear it again"? Sigh. Nevertheless, I hope you surprise me by proving me wrong with your future actions, not your words.
 
Unregistered,

Man, your attitude is scaring the bejeebies out of a lot of folks reading your posts. You seek advice then when given advice first based on wisdom and secondly on many years of solid experience then you balk at the answers. You may not like my advice but your own wisdom starts to show as soon as you "shut up and listen."

Perhaps you read the thread on the Marine Corps commercial. Do you think any of those men on the drill team questioned the wisdom and leadership to make it where they are? Sure, they're only "flipping around" an unloaded weapon "for show" but it happen ONLY from application of what they learned and their being disciplined. They got that from those appointed above them who know how to do it and do it right based on years of experience. That last concept applies to a hell of a lot more than a Marine Corps rifle drill team. You can bet it damn sure applies to Marine and Navy pilots in Aviation Officer Candidate School.

They learn the rules. They apply the rules. Then, they work as a team to accomplish the objective using those rules.

Speaking of "teams", when you're up there in the sky you're not a lone individual as much as it may seem much of the time. There are a lot of other folks up there such as Ron, Bruce and Jesse depending on you to "follow the rules" so they know they are safe along side you. When you break a rule outside of the necessity of safety, everyone becomes at risk. Myself, included.

Ron and Bruce mentioned a requirement by ERAU. Here's another concept to consider... On Monday, I had my initial oral exam for CFI. During that, we discussed the pre-solo written test a student must pass before a solo endorsement. He asked me what score the student should make for passing. There is no written rule but I applied the same as the knowledge test; 70%.

Well, that would certain seem reasonable... or, would it? So, I let my student go on up with that 70% on his pre-solo written and he has an accident. Suddenly, I'm facing an attorney representing either the student, his family or another party and being asked... "Why did you let Mr. Joe Blow fly solo when he failed thirty percent of his test?"

Now, the question to you is... Do you think you're going to get a chance to prove yourself when you've admitted to smoking an illegal substance at least twice? Do you think a major aviation college is going to put its reputation on the line by recommending you to an airline?

You've shown bad judgment in violation of what is clearly not just a violation of state law but also a violation of an extremely strict Federal Aviation Regulation with substantial consequences. The tolerance is zero. You say you did it twice. Do you think an airline is going to take a chance on you? Not likely. Particularly with the attitude you display here.

I'm going to admit here to being a dumb-ass college dropout. If I had kept my act together fifteen years ago, I would have had not just a masters but also a JD to my name. I blew it, big time.

Now, in the last two years I've busted my ass to work toward becoming a flight instructor. There have been a couple times I would have loved nothing more than to just duck down and let my worries disappear. But then, I would have blown EVERYTHING I've worked for. My ticket would be history.

Yours should be. But, you have a chance to save it... IF you simply shut up and listen to what some generous and wise men have to say. I guarantee you there is all the help out there you could hope for. All you have to do is be willing to have a humble heart, open mind and reach out with your hand to welcome that help.

I hope you do. You can bet there are some hearts hurting from reading your words. Your post affects me. The only reason I can say why is I know what happens when you throw away your potential and the help of those who care.

Dude, the hands are out there. Take hold.
 
Well if the current Pres can be a former coke head and fly planes, I see no reason why a former weed smoker can't fly a plane. :) :)

As long as you stop, have no drug problems & have never been caught, Any 121 will hire you.

I personally would not ever disclose anything I didn't have to. Not that I would tell you to lie, but I would guess there are many people out there who would.

I would tell you to research how long traces of pot are left in your system & take it from there. I would guess that with the exception of a hair sample, you have no way of anyone finding out you smoked past 5 days if casual, 60 days heavy use & 90 days on hair sample.

If someone just tried pot a few time then a week or 2 should be enought time time to be able to lie & not be caught.

I have been on random testing for 15 years now. I will tell you that if you do have a problem, you will be found out & will have wasted $100,000 or more. So, If you ave a problem, GET HELP NOW!!.

If you just tried it a few times, after 2 weeks you should have nothing to worry about.

PS............... I have my asbestos underwear on, flame away :)
 
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bbchien said:
Well, cannabinoids have been found up to four years out, so that might not be necessary.
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Eamon said:
I would tell you to research how long traces of pot are left in your system & take it from there. I would guess that with the exception of a hair sample, you have no way of anyone finding out you smoked past 5 days if casual, 60 days heavy use & 90 days on hair sample.

If someone just tried pot a few time then a week or 2 should be enought time time to be able to lie & not be caught.
If you just tried it a few times, after 2 weeks you should have nothing to worry about.

PS............... I have my asbestos underwear on, flame away :)
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Not flaming, but I think I'd go with the Doc on this one.

And my opinion...... DON'T LIE. Delay or fess up. I realize that both have negative consequences for "anonymous".
 
The sad fact is, if ERAU requires a class 1 medical upon enrollment, then I can't help but think that their campus is full of perjurers at this very moment. Regardless, don't be that guy.
 
I believe it is possible for a young person to make a mistake in their lives and then change their ways, go on to be something great. You are what, 18yrs old? You can still do this. Who of us has not made a mistake at that age?

It will take a complete attitude change. A place to start is by looking up the words Integrity and Humility. Become those, and you will be well on your way.
 
Another question - does ERAU do random drug screening of it's student population?

I don't believe a drug screen is part of the Class I exam, but it damn sure is part of any employment testing, and random testing while employed in air commerce is also a requirement.

Based on what Bruce said, it looks like you have 4 options.

1. If you 'fess up, get the required evaluation and counselling, you'll get a special issuance class I, and have to renew it cleanly over a 3 year period. So what? You'll be at ERAU during those three years. By the time you graduate you'll be eligible for a normal issuance, and you should be hirable.

2. Delay your entry to ERAU for a couple of years. Join the peace corps, get a local job at the FBO, go to another school to start and then transfer to ERAU. Many of us are talking about second careers flying beginning in our mid-40s, you've got TONS of time.

3. Make another career choice. I generally recommend that young people get their undergraduate education at a generalist university that offers a full range of subjects. Why limit yourself at that point in life to only a small section of the smorgasbord of knowledge? You truly would be better served in life by going to a broader university and pursuing your aviation goals in parallel. Again, you could transfer to ERAU and probably still maintain your timeline.

4. You can lie and hope not to get caught. This is really REALLY stupid. There's a decent article in this month's AOPA pilot that states that hope has no place in aviation. Just as a pilot may crash hoping he'll have just enough fuel to make his destination (rather than land short and refuel), your career may crash as you hope not to get caught. And the stress of looking over your shoulder is not good for your health either - "The guilty flee while no man pursueth" is something I bet most of us are familiar with, and it's not a good feeling. Having people think well of you while you know better is a soul-corroding experience.

I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life - that's your choice. I AM gonna tell you what's expected of you in the brotherhood of aviators, and you can make up your own mind if you want to earn entry and an open welcome, or if you want to sneak in and hang out, knowing in your heart that you really don't measure up.
 
Unregistered said:
Hmm I guess some people would rather try to be my parents and discuss peer pressure and "decisions" instead of offer constructive advice. Again, I've heard it all... and that's why I don't engage in "risky behaviors" with the exception of the two times in my life that I have used marijuana, and why I don't plan to in the future.

Yes bbchien, I have already perused 8500-8, and could pass it easily with the exception of the issue at hand. However, as has been stated, it is my university's policy that all incoming professional flight students have a first class medical.

Oh and BTW Ron this was not an issue for my Third Class.
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I'll tell ya what, "unregistered"... THE POT AIN'T THE PROBLEM. Your attitude is the problem, and I don't want to share a sky with you, while you're thinking the way you are.

What the heck is it with some 17 year-olds that, knowing as LITTLE as they know about life and the world, they think they know it all??

You want to impress folks around here? Then ask advice and shut the heck up when you get it. Say thank you, and go off somewhere and think about it, for crying out loud. That's what adults do - you might as well start trying to act like one.

sheesh.
 
Thanks for all the replies... and yes I admit my attitude has gotten the best of me on this thread, for which I apologize. Everybody who's posted here obviously cares enough about me or the relevant portion of my generation to have posted, for which I am grateful. And I do value advice.

I'm glad TMetzinger mentioned a special issuance... I was wondering about that. I've read 67.401 about them so I know the background... but what are the chances that I would be eligible? And would having one on one's past history affect hiring regardless of the current medical on file? And you make a very good point about hope... very poignant.

I just want to have all the facts on the table...
 
etsisk said:
I'll tell ya what, "unregistered"... THE POT AIN'T THE PROBLEM. Your attitude is the problem, and I don't want to share a sky with you, while you're thinking the way you are.

What the heck is it with some 17 year-olds that, knowing as LITTLE as they know about life and the world, they think they know it all??

You want to impress folks around here? Then ask advice and shut the heck up when you get it. Say thank you, and go off somewhere and think about it, for crying out loud. That's what adults do - you might as well start trying to act like one.

sheesh.
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A few points.

Most late teens and early twenties know everything. I know I thought I did compared to the "older" people I had to work with. My daughter and all her freinds are the same way.

I'll also bet every one of the pilots here had that "disease" to some extent, be honest, I sure your parents told you that at least once. I'm confident I'll win more bets than I lose.

Since the question has the time limit you will be better off waiting until you can answer it truthfully with no drug usage. You are going to run into that check box a lot if you have a successful career at anything.

Besides ERAU there are many "conventonal" universities with aviation programs. They won't ask the question or require the Class 1 up front. However the party temptation will be greater.

If you can't follow the rules, find another career. As an ATP lots of people put their life's in your hands. Responsibility is a requirement and the people here, although harsher than most audiences, question it.
 
Well smoking pot may be a stupid waste of time but spending $100,000 on a college education so you can become an airline pilot? Man, it's just not necessary and if it's debt you might as well hit yourself in the head with a bong! And, airline piloting isn't all glorious wild blue yonder aviating either. I''m not an airline pilot but several of my close friends are and it seems to be a lot of lonely nights in hotel rooms waiting for another ride in the silver salami while hoping you don't get layed-off and lose your retirement. Sure the money is good, eventually, but $100,000 of debt at age 21 is going to make you a slave for a lot of years. There are so many other options for that career path and so many other cool, respectable, adventurous careers in aviation. Some of them even pay great too.
 
wby0nder said:
Well smoking pot may be a stupid waste of time but spending $100,000 on a college education so you can become an airline pilot? Man, it's just not necessary and if it's debt you might as well hit yourself in the head with a bong! And, airline piloting isn't all glorious wild blue yonder aviating either. I''m not an airline pilot but several of my close friends are and it seems to be a lot of lonely nights in hotel rooms waiting for another ride in the silver salami while hoping you don't get layed-off and lose your retirement. Sure the money is good, eventually, but $100,000 of debt at age 21 is going to make you a slave for a lot of years. There are so many other options for that career path and so many other cool, respectable, adventurous careers in aviation. Some of them even pay great too.
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A college education (perhaps not a degree, but the education) is pretty much a requirement for an airline career - as the demand for pilots waxes and wanes, the college requirement gets softer and firmer. I do agree that there's no need to spend $100K for an undergraduate education yet, but even state schools can cost in the tens of thousands a year (and those are the cheap ones!) so it's a big chunk of money.

Everything else you say about the life is right-on. It's no longer a good-paying job, the pensions are gone, etc. The travel benefits aren't terrific either. It's really the aviation equivalent of being a bus driver (except bus drivers make more money), not a ship captain, until you are near the pinnacle of the pyramid. Even then, you're not making nearly as much money as you used to. It's a job you should only do because you can't NOT do it.
 
Unregistered said:
Thanks for all the replies... and yes I admit my attitude has gotten the best of me on this thread, for which I apologize. Everybody who's posted here obviously cares enough about me or the relevant portion of my generation to have posted, for which I am grateful. And I do value advice.
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Every journey begins with a single step, and maybe you just took that step. The really hard part is going to be keeping a handle on that attitude every day, every hour, every minute, every second, for the rest of your life.
I'm glad TMetzinger mentioned a special issuance... I was wondering about that. I've read 67.401 about them so I know the background... but what are the chances that I would be eligible? And would having one on one's past history affect hiring regardless of the current medical on file?
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Once it's on record, it's on record, and the airlines aren't likely to be much interested in you, regardless of how you got the certificate. I truly believe that your best bet is to get your 24-month chip and then apply. That way, there's no record for anyone to find later, and you will be able to fill out that form truthfully, with no lies on your conscience.

Yeah, I know, you're paying for your past mistakes by having to wait. But that's life -- actions have consequnces. The fact that you can bury your mistake by just waiting a while is a pretty easy penance. Some folks have done far worse and paid far more. I know of one young man just a bit older than you who foolishly got involved in one (and, if he is to be believed, only one) pot sale. Unfortunately, it was to a Federal agent. He did two years in a Federal pen, has a Federal drug record forever, and will never, ever be able to get hired by an airline as a pilot. Your situation is far more easily corrected if you have the courage and will power to do it, and I hope you do.
 
Unregistered said:
Thanks for all the replies... and yes I admit my attitude has gotten the best of me on this thread, for which I apologize. Everybody who's posted here obviously cares enough about me or the relevant portion of my generation to have posted, for which I am grateful. And I do value advice.
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First off, I'm glad to read this. I was a little concerned about your attitude too - but I think you're not a hopeless case. :)

Now, let me tell you with complete honesty - the concern in this thread isn't just for you and your generation. There is very real concern among the replies here for ourselves. Every drunk or drugged pilot who gets behind the stick makes us look bad, and to be quite honest, we've already got enough magnifying glasses on us. Pilots are viewed by too many people as rich, over privileged boozers who are a threat to safety and security.

So if we see someone who we even THINK might be a threat to our ability to fight that image, we close ranks pretty damn quick.

Now I'm gonna make a recommendation to you.

Quit smoking pot and Wait.

Wait the two years, and maybe try for a line job at an airport while you do.

And tell your folks why. Tell them you made a stupid mistake, and you don't want to risk your entire future because of it.

I know, they're likely to flip out, but in the long run I'm betting they will:
1) thank you for your honesty;
2) support your decision; and
3) respect your maturity in not trying to lie to the faa or risk your future because of a stupid mistake

It may take them a while to get there, but believe it or not, your parents probably really do have your own best interests at heart.

While we have OURS at heart... ;)

Greebo
 
Hang on, let's discuss the special issuance more clearly.

If someone gets a special issuance as noted, does the three years of renewals, and then gets a REGULAR (not SI) medical, do prospective employers ever know about the SI medical in the past, or do they just find out the most recent medical?


Second issue: You can bet there will be a question on past drug use in the airline's HR process somewhere. I'm GUESSING that admitting to experimental marijuana usage in high school would not be a bar to employment when the applicant is applying for or five years later as a college grad with a clean record. It certainly wouldn't be a bar to a clearance or employment elsewhere. Would welcome informed opinions to the contrary.
 
enough about the pot...

I personally cringe every time I hear someone make the financial decision to go to ERAU or other similar schools. I decided to learn to fly when I was about the same age as you, 5 yrs ago, and I was really gung ho about it too and wanted nothing other than to be an airline pilot. There was a 141 school in my hometown and I started flying there in my Junior year of High School. Two years later I was a CFI, CFII, MEI and "only" about $23000 poorer. Really a bargain considered the certifications I had and what it would've cost at pretty much any other 2 or 4 yr school. At that point I was personally ready to be a flight instructor and build up time for the next biggest and greatest job. Airline pilot was kinda out of the picture by then but dang a corporate gig sounded nice! Thankfully, my parents had a nice chat with me that basically went like this:

Me: I want to be a pilot for the rest of my life
Parents: You WILL get a 4 yr degree!
Me: But I just want to be a pilot, I guess I'll get something to 'fall back on'
Parents: that fine, but you will get a degree in something that you can make a good living at!
Me: I like math and airplanes so I'll be an Aerospace Engineer

No lie that was basically it.

Then I discovered I really liked instructing. And then I decided that maybe Engineering wasnt so bad. Now Im coming into my last year of college and have to start facing down getting a real job. But where am I at?

I have Commercial and CFI for Single, Multi, Glider and Instrument
1600 hrs, 900 dual given, 125 multi.
Its easy to do this. Get your certificates at a local community college while taking easy slack off gen ed courses, then transfer to a 4 year school to get the degree, and while you are there lay off the women and beer enough so that you have enough time to work as a CFI when not at class. If you can, work at an FBO that has a couple nice twins on the line for charter that you can ride along in to build up your multi time, and then hopefully parlay that into a charter job as you gain experience. Its worked for many, its working for me, and it can work for you.

by the end of the year i should easily get past 2000 total, 1000 dual given, and have a big boost in the multi thanks to starting doing Part 135 charters, plus get Multi ATP, and a 4 year engineering degree from a fairly respected school. Total cost will be somewhere around 60 K.

But what will I end up for that? I'll have pretty much everything that you will get in the next 4 years at ERAU, except that instead of the generic "Aviation" degree I will have a degree that will get me a real job, besides being a pilot. I will have all the same pieces of plastic from the FAA that you will have, but you will spend about 40K dollars extra. and in the 4 or so years that it will take (took me 5.5 because of a year or so of internships) you will be building flight experience. Otherwise you will get out of ERAU with just the bare certificates and no real experience to tag onto them.

Im not trying to necessarily say that ERAU is a lousy university or that its a bad idea, I just hate to see people consistently go so far into debt for a pretty low pay job (to start with) when there are so many other options out there to do the same thing and get out with more options for cheaper. Im not saying that you need to be an engineer, but you really should consider a 4 year degree in a field that is employable beyond aviation. Heck even I could've chosen better in that degree. If the whole aviation field just goes straight to hell I am double screwed, and will probably be standing next to all the other pilots at McDonalds saying "would you like fries with that?"
 
Your attitude is the issue here. I'm on the tail end of knowing everything at age 23 (now I just know most of everything - Missa will confirm this :) ), but one thing that I never had the stupidity to touch was any sort of drugs. And not because I wasn't exposed to it! Drugs were all over my school, something that all of my friends used (very regularly). I still can't quite figure out why exactly I was the "good kid" amongst all of that, but I was, and still am. The advice here so far has been very constructive, you'd be wise to take it. Really, I haven't known the members of this board to give anything but constructive advice. You'd be wise to listen to it.

The unregistered thing makes sense - he doesn't want to potentially be traced back to him.

All of us want new pilots to join our ranks. The catch is, we don't want someone who we view as a hazard joining, because they pose a risk to themselves, others, and hurt the image of the pilot community. As it is, there are enough cases of people doing stupid things in airplanes and killing themselves and/or others. And those aren't necessarily people who are waving big, obvious red flags!

It sounds to me like you just did the same kind of stupid thing that I suppose a good number of high school students did, and won't turn into the guy who bought my Range Rover last week (I'd never in my life seen someone whose brain was so fried from years of heavy drug use). Honestly, probably not a big deal in the grand scheme. You do sound like you have some growing up to do based on your posts, and I view that as a concern going into flight training. Still thinking you know everything when you're dealing with something that can easily kill you if you do something stupid is not the attitude to have. It's also not a good way to learn.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It sounds to me like you just did the same kind of stupid thing that I suppose a good number of high school students did, and won't turn into the guy who bought my Range Rover last week (I'd never in my life seen someone whose brain was so fried from years of heavy drug use). Honestly, probably not a big deal in the grand scheme. You do sound like you have some growing up to do based on your posts, and I view that as a concern going into flight training. Still thinking you know everything when you're dealing with something that can easily kill you if you do something stupid is not the attitude to have. It's also not a good way to learn.
Click to expand...


You sold a heavy piece of machinery like a Range Rover to someone you felt was impaired? <sound of attorneys circling> Clearly, sir, you are responsible for anyone he injures in the future, just as if you'd given him a loaded gun! (looking for tongue-in-cheek icon)
 
TMetzinger said:
You sold a heavy piece of machinery like a Range Rover to someone you felt was impaired? <sound of attorneys circling> Clearly, sir, you are responsible for anyone he injures in the future, just as if you'd given him a loaded gun! (looking for tongue-in-cheek icon)
Click to expand...

He didn't look high at the time... he looked like he was missing a significant number of brain cells that had been killed off due to prolonged use. You can't not sell something to someone just 'cause they look stupid... that would be descrimintaion.
 
You can refuse to sell your private property to anybody for any reason you choose. There are some exceptions about real estate, but that's about it, I think.
 
What Missa said, Tim. :)

At the time he was no more of an impaired driver than, say, my mom (who suffers from a lack of brain to vehicle coordination on a permanent basis). Furthermore, he had been on commercial flights for most of the day having passed through TSA, so he would have had to be pretty stupid to make that trip with drugs in hand (that's for another post). Having been around too many potheads in high school (also for another post... and as I already stated, somehow I was the good kid who exluded myself from that), I know the difference between a user and someone who's presently high. This guy was just a user.

This guy's brain was obviously fried, but I saw no reason why he was less likely to make the trip than my mom. He even took our advice to go find a hotel room to spend the night at, since it was snowing. Either way, he got back safely, I got my cash, and the new owner is very happy with his purchase.

Had it been a plane I was selling, though, I would have more than likely turned him away. Probably for a motorcycle, too, unless he had brought a pick-up or motorcycle trailer with which to bring it home.

But I think you were mostly joking, so I'm not going to take your comment too terribly seriously. :)
 
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