Final Report for the Loss of My Arrow

Warlock

Warlock

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Warlock
Factually correct but interesting how they tried to minimize the circumstances surrounding the crash. I was never interviewed as the owner nor anyone else who had interaction with the pilot from our club. The police records from Texas are sealed because it involves alleged molestation of a minor child, kidnapping, and theft from the Boy scouts. Not the case of the La. Vermillion Parish sheriffs Dept...details are tragic and brutal...as a club we did nothing wrong and the club has since folded because of the incident. I find myself as the owner of the aircraft as a defendant in three different lawsuits. Emotionally its been a huge toll and just getting back to flying...something I have enjoyed for 40 years lost its appeal with the unnecessary death of a six year old girl. If not for my youngest daughter who is a freshly minted PPL and working for Foreflight my aviation days would be done.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...D=20180831X10324&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA
 
How awful for the poor girl. :(
 
Made the hair on my neck stand reading that ****.
 
I remember you posting about this a while back. That sure would have rattled my cage, too.
 
Guy hits a tower with perfectly good airplane and you get sued. And people wonder why I've no faith in our legal system. I keep saying you can get sued for anything, the only protection is poverty. No one seems to believe me. I am so sorry for the protracted ****storm. There will be blue skies on the other side,though.
 
steingar said:
Guy hits a tower with perfectly good airplane and you get sued.
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Sounds like suicide by TV tower to me, but the coward took the kid with him. I surely hope he burns in hell for eternity. :(

@Warlock , good thoughts and prayers for you and your family as you deal with this.
 
steingar said:
Guy hits a tower with perfectly good airplane and you get sued. And people wonder why I've no faith in our legal system. I keep saying you can get sued for anything, the only protection is poverty. No one seems to believe me. I am so sorry for the protracted ****storm. There will be blue skies on the other side,though.
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Yeah that doesn’t quite make sense to me ether.
 
Problems with the report I have...
Kidnapping child five weeks prior and on the run from authorities across state lines = Family Vacation
Quick to point out toxicology of the pilot, but fail to state anything about the five empty bottles of reds apple ale receipt of purchase found in the wreckage and the BAC of the child...(Per FAA interim report FOIR request)
and the use of "family related challenges" to normalize things I would not even begin to post, included in police reports. Sorry for the rant...
 
Warlock said:
Problems with the report I have...
Kidnapping child five weeks prior and on the run from authorities across state lines = Family Vacation
Quick to point out toxicology of the pilot, but fail to state anything about the five empty bottles of reds apple ale receipt of purchase found in the wreckage and the BAC of the child...(Per FAA interim report FOIR request)
and the use of "family related challenges" to normalize things I would no even begin to post, included in police reports. Sorry for the rant...
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Did you read this part?

“The pilot was employed as an FAA operations inspector.”


circle-the-wagons.jpg
 
Can you give the ntsb case number? That link downloads a 'nothing' file with an ashx suffix for me.
 
Wow; I thought I had it bad getting dragged through the courts during Operation Safe Pilot. I hope you prevail against the three lawsuits.

What a travesty and miscarriage of justice.
 
steingar said:
I keep saying you can get sued for anything, the only protection is poverty. No one seems to believe me.
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Every lawyer and anyone who’s ever actually been involved in a case believes you. It’s people who think cases have to have merit to be brought, who are always surprised by them. Our system has always been this way.

There’s a reason your lawyer tells you to NEVER answer ANY questions posed by ANY law enforcement agency EVER no matter how innocuous, and why everyone with any assets NEEDS a relatively cheap million dollar or more liability rider policy.

Lawsuits, even if you WIN against a wholly frivolous one, are damned expensive. Any real case is bankruptcy inducing for most people living paycheck to paycheck. Even hard to pay for if you’ve got savings. Liability insurance (outside of aviation) is cheap.

Look up CFI insurance sometime. You’ll gag.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Nate is this an umbrella?
Can you get one that covers aviation activities?
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Typically not as far as I know.

You’re stuck with renters insurance, owners insurance with a “fly other aircraft” option, and/or CFI insurance. All climbing in price rapidly.
 
Thats the 'factual'. The board still has to issue a probable cause. It'll be interesting whether they call it what it is.

Being a day away from being arrested for that kind of thing seems to be detrimental to piloting skills. At Robinson airport in CT, a rental 172 stalled into an embankment short of the runway.
 
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denverpilot said:
Typically not as far as I know.

You’re stuck with renters insurance, owners insurance with a “fly other aircraft” option, and/or CFI insurance. All climbing in price rapidly.
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Glad you brought this up. I had misremembered that my umbrella covered aviation. Looked up the email chain from when I asked about it, and sure enough it's excluded. I need to find out what our club policy covers. My agent offered to quote me an "aviation liability" policy. It will be interesting to see what that would run.
 
Yep, USAA was pretty clear to me that my umbrella covered just about everything EXCEPT aviation-related stuff.
 
No personal umbrella I have ever seen will cover GA and we had all the insurance we could buy...there are so many failures surrounding the lead up to this event the local police and government agencies that no reasonable person can understand...they helped enable him in in certain ways...he was credentialed FAA employee five weeks after kidnapping his child...no Amber report...nothing not to mention other criminal activities he was accused off...

And as pointed out this is not the final...my mistake
 
Warlock said:
No personal umbrella I have ever seen will cover GA and we had all the insurance we could buy...
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So honest question, are the insurance company lawyers involved and have they been paying for them? Just curious how much value the insurance really adds.
 
My insurance took the let’s sit and wait approach and even I had to force them to pay the hull claim...excuses they could not verify he met the pilot requirements of the policy...then I assume and it’s hard to prove, that it was an intentional act, so they would of walked away if a suicide note was found as intentional acts are not covered.

They ran into statutory limits on time for assuming liability and frankly the lack of trying to settle any claims to some degree forces lawsuits in my opinion.

My lawyers are currently paid for and are some of the best in my opinion. I have never received a reservation of rights letter or excess letter from the company so I am probably good. Damage is well in excess of policy limits....

In the end it’s still been expensive dealing with discovery, my lawyers prior, and losses from starting and then having to pull the plug on the club. The emotional toll has been the toughest part...cannot get over the tragic death of a child...

Yes the insurance in the end is worth it...litigation costs alone will probably be 150-200K in the end.
 
Pretty much a worst case scenario for any aircraft lessor. Sorry to hear that.
 
Geez man sorry to hear this. I just now realized we had talked about your club in the past. putting myself in your shoes - its a terrible position to be in. Good luck resolving this with minimal trouble going forward.
 
Such an awful thing - I'm sorry it involved you at all.

steingar said:
Guy hits a tower with perfectly good airplane and you get sued. And people wonder why I've no faith in our legal system. I keep saying you can get sued for anything, the only protection is poverty. No one seems to believe me. I am so sorry for the protracted ****storm. There will be blue skies on the other side,though.
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I have no faith in people who don't talk to ATC

denverpilot said:
So honest question, are the insurance company lawyers involved and have they been paying for them? Just curious how much value the insurance really adds.
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They better be, lest the insurance company get hit with the mother of all bad faith lawsuits.
 
N1120A said:
I have no faith in people who don't talk to ATC
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What you don’t see in the report is he flew to Florida and never talked to ATC and disabled the transponder every leg of the flight except for one short period after take off in Mississippi I was told. And never talked to any ATC. The Garmin Flight Autodetect was configured into the transponder so you had to turn it off each time to disable

The arrest warrant was for one of three alleged things or combinations of them...Sexual Abuse of an older step child...Unauthorized used of funds from the Local Boys Scout council (15-18K ) or one can assume kidnapping his child...Misuse of government credit card seemed to be something uncovered after the fact. Local FSDO put him on family leave to protect his job when he checked out...Judge has sealed at the Governments request all Texas police records so unless we spend money we won’t know.
 
Warlock said:
What you don’t see in the report is he flew to Florida and never talked to ATC and disabled the transponder every leg of the flight except for one short period after take off in Mississippi I was told. And never talked to any ATC. The Garmin Flight Autodetect was configured into the transponder so you had to turn it off each time to disable

The arrest warrant was for one of three alleged things or combinations of them...Sexual Abuse of an older step child...Unauthorized used of funds from the Local Boys Scout council (15-18K ) or one can assume kidnapping his child...Misuse of government credit card seemed to be something uncovered after the fact. Local FSDO put him on family leave to protect his job when he checked out...Judge has sealed at the Governments request all Texas police records so unless we spend money we won’t know.
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I wasn't talking about the piece of garbage who committed suicide in your plane.
 
flyingron said:
Yep, USAA was pretty clear to me that my umbrella covered just about everything EXCEPT aviation-related stuff.
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Yes, when I called USAA to buy mine (bought it anyway for all the other craziness in the world) and asked the rep what it covered, she said "oh, it covers absolutely everything, you don't even have to worry about it." Knowing that couldn't possibly be true, I said, "I'm a pilot and a doctor. Does it cover aviation and malpractice?" And she said "well... okay, you found the two things it doesn't cover."
 
Warlock said:
Factually correct but interesting how they tried to minimize the circumstances surrounding the crash. I was never interviewed as the owner nor anyone else who had interaction with the pilot from our club. The police records from Texas are sealed because it involves alleged molestation of a minor child, kidnapping, and theft from the Boy scouts. Not the case of the La. Vermillion Parish sheriffs Dept...details are tragic and brutal...as a club we did nothing wrong and the club has since folded because of the incident. I find myself as the owner of the aircraft as a defendant in three different lawsuits. Emotionally its been a huge toll and just getting back to flying...something I have enjoyed for 40 years lost its appeal with the unnecessary death of a six year old girl. If not for my youngest daughter who is a freshly minted PPL and working for Foreflight my aviation days would be done.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...D=20180831X10324&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA
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What are they saying you allegedly did as the owner? Or do they just name you as a defendant without saying?
 
luvflyin said:
What are they saying you allegedly did as the owner? Or do they just name you as a defendant without saying?
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This varies a bit by state, and you should listen to a real lawyer's explanation over mine, but in general plaintiffs will add every defendant they can think of to the claim. (Same with crashes where they throw on the engine manufacturer, etc.) What they're hoping for is that the jury decides "damages were $10 million for loss of this little girl. That was 80% the pilot's fault for all of his obvious failings, 15% the club's fault for letting someone with an outstanding arrest warrant borrow the plane, and 5% the owner's fault for letting his plane be used by a club with such lax policies." If you're in a joint and several liability state, and the pilot has no recoverable assets and the club was a well-organized LLC without any assets, the owner is now on the hook for the full $10 million.
 
mcmanigle said:
This varies a bit by state, and you should listen to a real lawyer's explanation over mine, but in general plaintiffs will add every defendant they can think of to the claim. (Same with crashes where they throw on the engine manufacturer, etc.) What they're hoping for is that the jury decides "damages were $10 million for loss of this little girl. That was 80% the pilot's fault for all of his obvious failings, 15% the club's fault for letting someone with an outstanding arrest warrant borrow the plane, and 5% the owner's fault for letting his plane be used by a club with such lax policies." If you're in a joint and several liability state, and the pilot has no recoverable assets and the club was a well-organized LLC without any assets, the owner is now on the hook for the full $10 million.
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Isn't that the equivalent of losing the case though? What I mean is wouldn't the plaintiff lawyers probably do a comprehensive market research of who in that defendant list actually had any assets worth going after? A small fry owner who is already splitting costs by leasebacking or fiddle-f----ng with club arrangements in the first place, is likely not gonna be able to come up with assets to even match the insurance policy cap, let alone the multi-MM payout. Not a lawyer, nor did I stay on a holiday Inn last night...Corona and what not, that stuff's everywhere :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
Isn't that the equivalent of losing the case though? What I mean is wouldn't the plaintiff lawyers probably do a comprehensive market research of who in that defendant list actually had any assets worth going after? A small fry owner who is already splitting costs by leasebacking or fiddle-f----ng with club arrangements in the first place, is likely not gonna be able to come up with assets to even match the insurance policy cap, let alone the multi-MM payout. Not a lawyer, nor did I stay on a holiday Inn last night...Corona and what not, that stuff's everywhere :D
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Sure, but why do a cursory search when you can just throw everything on there and hope for the best? Also, if you think your other owners are judgement-proof anyway, or their total assets are going to come in under your hoped-for judgement, why not throw in the extra half million that the owner's insurance policy might include? And/or their vacation house that's the reason they had this plane on leaseback? And/or savings for a kid's college that isn't in a 529 (or is in a state where that isn't protected)? In most cases it takes longer to figure all of that out up front than it does to just throw them all on the suit, and then figure out after judgement who's worth trying to collect from.
 
mcmanigle said:
Sure, but why do a cursory search when you can just throw everything on there and hope for the best? Also, if you think your other owners are judgement-proof anyway, or their total assets are going to come in under your hoped-for judgement, why not throw in the extra half million that the owner's insurance policy might include? And/or their vacation house that's the reason they had this plane on leaseback? And/or savings for a kid's college that isn't in a 529 (or is in a state where that isn't protected)? In most cases it takes longer to figure all of that out up front than it does to just throw them all on the suit, and then figure out after judgement who's worth trying to collect from.
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All fair points indeed. I guess we will see what ends up happening with the lawsuit(s) in this OPs case, vis a vis the insurance liability cap for whatever policy covering him.
 
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