Filing IFR routing at my home field

[Baflier]

Say it's an IMC day and I want to practice a hold and an instrument approach at my home airport outside of Philadelphia. Do controllers typically care if I file a flight to my departure airport? Sort of the equivalent of "staying in the pattern" (so to speak). My objective is to depart, get vectors to the published hold at the IAF and then shoot the approach, fly the published missed, before shooting the approach again to land. The goal is to do this in IMC to get some currency but not burn a bunch of fuel to fly to a destination field.

I would plan to say this in the remarks field: "Practice instrument approaches, one hold and published missed."

 

[WDD]

For my training, I've filed from my home airport, gone missed to two others, and final airport is where I started. I would think it would be KXYZ to IAF Acme to KXYZ. When you make contact "Request Vectors to IAF Acme and then ILS Runway XX for KXYZ, going missed".

 

[Timbeck2]

Don't know what class airport you are based but here in Tucson, we just call up clearance delivery and tell them we'd like IFR vectors for the ILS runway ** with a missed approach and holding. They will give you an IFR code for your transponder and climb out instructions. Unless you just want to file.

 

[tawood]

I do this all the time. I don't know if it matters, but I write something like "Round robin for currency" in the comments section. I've heard they don't read comments but I know they do see this, because I've had them say it to me before, such as when picking up the clearance, "Cleared on your round robin for currency flight to...." or something to that effect.

 

[mcmanigle]

Another way to do it is to file from airport to same airport, and put an initial approach fix in “route”. Controllers don’t really care, but I’ve heard the computer sometimes does.

 

[Baflier]

These are all terrific/helpful responses - thank you!

 

[sarangan]

Say it's an IMC day and I want to practice a hold and an instrument approach at my home airport outside of Philadelphia. Do controllers typically care if I file a flight to my departure airport? Sort of the equivalent of "staying in the pattern" (so to speak). My objective is to depart, get vectors to the published hold at the IAF and then shoot the approach, fly the published missed, before shooting the approach again to land. The goal is to do this in IMC to get some currency but not burn a bunch of fuel to fly to a destination field.

I would plan to say this in the remarks field: "Practice instrument approaches, one hold and published missed."

I've done it many times. The clearance oftens goes like "cleared to XYZ round robin as filed". In the remarks box I put in practice approaches, but I am not sure if they see that or not.

 

[AA5Bman]

When I’ve done it I just file KABC [IAF of the approach I want to fly] KABC. They’ll clear you on the ground to the airport you’re sitting at, and when you shoot the first approach they’ve usually figured out you’re just practicing and will say something like “how will this approach terminate” which is your opportunity to request your next approach.

 

[Initial Fix]

I file with an initial fix on the first approach I’m planning to fly. I’m remembering the FAA computer didn’t like the same departure and destination without the fix, but that might have been fixed years ago.

 

[luvflyin]

Don't know what class airport you are based but here in Tucson, we just call up clearance delivery and tell them we'd like IFR vectors for the ILS runway ** with a missed approach and holding. They will give you an IFR code for your transponder and climb out instructions. Unless you just want to file.

What do they give for a Clearance Limit when they do that?

 

[luvflyin]

Say it's an IMC day and I want to practice a hold and an instrument approach at my home airport outside of Philadelphia. Do controllers typically care if I file a flight to my departure airport? Sort of the equivalent of "staying in the pattern" (so to speak). My objective is to depart, get vectors to the published hold at the IAF and then shoot the approach, fly the published missed, before shooting the approach again to land. The goal is to do this in IMC to get some currency but not burn a bunch of fuel to fly to a destination field.

I would plan to say this in the remarks field: "Practice instrument approaches, one hold and published missed."

There’s nothing wrong with getting a Clearance to the airport you are departing and making the requests you said. You can expect some delay getting released though if it’s busy. Itinerant traffic is not supposed to be delayed for practice approaches.

 

[tspear]

Say it's an IMC day and I want to practice a hold and an instrument approach at my home airport outside of Philadelphia. Do controllers typically care if I file a flight to my departure airport? Sort of the equivalent of "staying in the pattern" (so to speak). My objective is to depart, get vectors to the published hold at the IAF and then shoot the approach, fly the published missed, before shooting the approach again to land. The goal is to do this in IMC to get some currency but not burn a bunch of fuel to fly to a destination field.

I would plan to say this in the remarks field: "Practice instrument approaches, one hold and published missed."

If you are near Philadelphia you likely will be burning gas positioned for the approach. It will use slightly more fuel but you are likely better doing two approaches that feed to each other.
For example I used to be based at KGAI, the standard IAP for KFDK is halfway between the two airports (5 minutes in most GA planes), one of the IAP for KGAI was on the missed for KFDK.

I am sure that you could find something similar where you live. It also teaches you to slow the plane down and get fast at your buttonolgy because you are in the approach very fast.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[Arnold]

I've been doing this frequently out of PTW. PTW to PTW Route: KRDG. Remarks: Pilot training, multiple approaches. Ship has only VOR/ILS. In contrast to their problematic VFR services RDG has been spectacularly good with IFR services. Asked for and received numerous modification to published procedures. Two days ago got cleared to hold at the IAF with 2 min. legs, block 3200 to 4700. We were able to do steep turns, stalls and unusual attitudes in the hold. No delays, no problems.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I would plan to say this in the remarks field: "Practice instrument approaches, one hold and published missed."

I haven counted the letters but a potential problem is a limit if how much if the comments automatically appears on the strip. I think it's 25 but my memory could be off.

I do use the comments field but keep it short. I spell the word but I know controllers who say the abbreviated "IFR TRNG" would convey the message clearly. It works fine. All you really need is a brief heads up. When I've used it in your scenario, I've received, "what do you want to do first?" as a reply when contacting Approach without saying anything else.

 

[Arnold]

I haven counted the letters but a potential problem is a limit if how much if the comments automatically appears on the strip. I think it's 25 but my memory could be off.

I do use the comments field but keep it short. I spell the word but I know controllers who say the abbreviated "IFR TRNG" would convey the message clearly. It works fine. All you really need is a brief heads up. When I've used it in your scenario, I've received, "what do you want to do first?" as a reply when contacting Approach without saying anything else.

Knowing they are going to ask that I usually just tell them on my initial call up.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Knowing they are going to ask that I usually just tell them on my initial call up.

I guess it depends how long your call up is and how busy they are. My usual initial call to TRACON when IFR is only call sign and altitude (and location if I am leaving a nontowered airport).

 

[sarangan]

I haven counted the letters but a potential problem is a limit if how much if the comments automatically appears on the strip. I think it's 25 but my memory could be off.

I do use the comments field but keep it short. I spell the word but I know controllers who say the abbreviated "IFR TRNG" would convey the message clearly. It works fine. All you really need is a brief heads up. When I've used it in your scenario, I've received, "what do you want to do first?" as a reply when contacting Approach without saying anything else.

I've been told they don't see the remarks field or alternate field unless they specifically look them up. But if you file ABC to ABC it should be self-evident to the controller that it is for training.

 

[RussR]

Remember that pretty much anything you want to do, ATC has seen a million times. We tend to treat what we're doing as some unique, unusual request, but it's really not. Want to take pictures of downtown? They've had that request several times today already. Want to fly along the beach? Same. It's an IFR day that's good for training and currency? Heck, EVERYBODY's out doing that, you're not the first. So don't worry too much about it.

The key is really just getting "in the system". Especially if you're staying within one Approach Control's airspace, all you need to do is get in THEIR system, and once you're on the radio, work out the details of what you want to do. If you file from ABC to ABC, they KNOW what you're doing, it's no surprise, and once you're in contact with them, they'll usually ask what approach you'd like first. So file ABC to ABC, or ABC to some nearby VOR to ABC, or whatever gets through the system, it doesn't much matter.

 

[luvflyin]

I've been told they don't see the remarks field or alternate field unless they specifically look them up. But if you file ABC to ABC it should be self-evident to the controller that it is for training.

except that they’ll see at least the first few characters of Remarks without having to look it up

 

[midlifeflyer]

I've been told they don't see the remarks field or alternate field unless they specifically look them up. But if you file ABC to ABC it should be self-evident to the controller that it is for training.

I use it in situations other than ABC-ABC.

But yes, it's definitely true for the Alternate field but I have heard a variety of answers from controllers on the remarks, so I wonder whether it is facility/software version/paper of plastic specific. At least at one time, the paper strips looked like this, no?

LOL! Maybe next time I file IFR I'll put "DO U SEE THIS?" in the remarks!

 

[luvflyin]

I use it in situations other than ABC-ABC.

But yes, it's definitely true for the Alternate field but I have heard a variety of answers from controllers on the remarks, so I wonder whether it is facility/software version/paper of plastic specific. At least at one time, the paper strips looked like this, no?

LOL! Maybe next time I file IFR I'll put "DO U SEE THIS?" in the remarks!

View attachment 99081

That was one of them. It has a P time, proposed departure time. There were also E time and A time strips, enroute and arrival. It was common that these were ‘short’ strips. The entire roll of strips had a vertical perforation so the right half of the strip could be torn off. These would be used at Radar facilities. They wouldn’t be put in strip holders. They were just arranged flat on a rubber mat thingy by the scope. All them boxes to the right where times over fixes etc. were recorded weren’t needed with Radar. On A and E strips, fewer of the Remarks showed on the strip than P strips. Typically the Approach Controllers never saw the P strips. They were for Clearance Delivery.

 

[Timbeck2]

What do they give for a Clearance Limit when they do that?

"cleared to Tucson airport via radar vectors"

 

[midlifeflyer]

On A and E strips, fewer of the Remarks showed on the strip than P strips

Thank you. If I understand that correctly, that kind of makes sense to me. The P strip is the initial strip and I would suppose things of importance wanted to be communicated before initial contact are what might go there. Once enroute or arrival, you've already been talking to ATC. Maybe the only thing important left is for something related to lack of communication. I've heard some controllers say, the single best thing to put in the remarks is a phone number to call when you forget to cancel IFR at a nontowered airport.

 

[luvflyin]

Thank you. If I understand that correctly, that kind of makes sense to me. The P strip is the initial strip and I would suppose things of importance wanted to be communicated before initial contact are what might go there. Once enroute or arrival, you've already been talking to ATC. Maybe the only thing important left is for something related to lack of communication. I've heard some controllers say, the single best thing to put in the remarks is a phone number to call when you forget to cancel IFR at a nontowered airport.

Yeah. The one that ‘always’ gets through is FRC. It has to be the first element in any Remarks entry.

 

[benyflyguy]

Don't know what class airport you are based but here in Tucson, we just call up clearance delivery and tell them we'd like IFR vectors for the ILS runway ** with a missed approach and holding. They will give you an IFR code for your transponder and climb out instructions. Unless you just want to file.

When you do that do you end up having to give all the info that you would filing?? Like fuel, souls, ect?? I have asked that way in the past and the controller was a bit ****y about having to put everything in the system?
Typically now I file and when I call CD I just tell them what I want then.

 

[IK04]

Do they still do tower to tower clearances in the Philly area?

That's how we used to do it back in the stone age...

 

[Timbeck2]

When you do that do you end up having to give all the info that you would filing?? Like fuel, souls, ect?? I have asked that way in the past and the controller was a bit ****y about having to put everything in the system?
Typically now I file and when I call CD I just tell them what I want then.

No you don’t have to give them all that. Tail number, type and intentions and possibly requested altitude

 

[Palmpilot]

Don't know what class airport you are based but here in Tucson, we just call up clearance delivery and tell them we'd like IFR vectors for the ILS runway ** with a missed approach and holding. They will give you an IFR code for your transponder and climb out instructions. Unless you just want to file.

When you do that do you end up having to give all the info that you would filing?? Like fuel, souls, ect?? I have asked that way in the past and the controller was a bit ****y about having to put everything in the system?
Typically now I file and when I call CD I just tell them what I want then.

No you don’t have to give them all that. Tail number, type and intentions and possibly requested altitude

And in support of that point, we have this entry from the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

ABBREVIATED IFR FLIGHT PLANS- An
authorization by ATC requiring pilots to submit only
that information needed for the purpose of ATC. It
includes only a small portion of the usual IFR flight
plan information. In certain instances, this may be
only aircraft identification, location, and pilot
request. Other information may be requested if
needed by ATC for separation/control purposes. It is
frequently used by aircraft which are airborne and
desire an instrument approach or by aircraft which are
on the ground and desire a climb to VFR-on-top.​

 

[tspear]

Do they still do tower to tower clearances in the Philly area?

That's how we used to do it back in the stone age...

Around Philly, I have never had them do it. They always say contact flight service, then a few times say they cannot do in flight pickup of clearance.

Philly TRACON or center (not sure of the title) is the absolute worst facility I have dealt with that I can think of.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[Arnold]

Around Philly, I have never had them do it. They always say contact flight service, then a few times say they cannot do in flight pickup of clearance.

Philly TRACON or center (not sure of the title) is the absolute worst facility I have dealt with that I can think of.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

Are you talking about launching VFR and then calling approach for a clearance with no Inst. Plan on file? If that is the case I would not expect a warm welcome from PHL approach or any class B for that matter. That said, I've had it go both ways outside class B airspace. Usually they just get basic info and issue a clearance, occasionally I'm told to contact FSS. With easy electronic filing I will not hesitate to plan a VFR flight and file an IFR back up. I don't think the controllers mind. But perhaps a controller can chime in.

 

[EdFred]

So if I were to put "SAY HI 2 UR MOM" in the remarks, is a controller going to see that?

 

[Arnold]

So if I were to put "SAY HI 2 UR MOM" in the remarks, is a controller going to see that?

Hee Hee, always the troublemaker.

 

[tspear]

Are you talking about launching VFR and then calling approach for a clearance with no Inst. Plan on file? If that is the case I would not expect a warm welcome from PHL approach or any class B for that matter. That said, I've had it go both ways outside class B airspace. Usually they just get basic info and issue a clearance, occasionally I'm told to contact FSS. With easy electronic filing I will not hesitate to plan a VFR flight and file an IFR back up. I don't think the controllers mind. But perhaps a controller can chime in.

Philly is a pain for all of the above. If I file IFR I often pick up in the air, Boston, Potomac, NY, Atlanta, Chicago.... none of them have an issue with it (except once, Boston did, when I called to find out what I screwed up, per the guy who answered, that controller was new and from Philly, lol). A unexpected cloud layer comes in and I need a popup IFRF to descend, only Philly says no, go to talk to FSS. The list goes on, Philly center sucks, and hates bug smashers. The route you way around, never direct, and heaven forbid you want to cross over their space.

Tim

 

[RussR]

Philly center

To be correct, there is no Philadelphia Center, Philadelphia is a TRACON, and Washington Center and New York Center serve it.

This isn't just pedantic, TRACONs and Centers have different equipment that may or may not have an impact in this discussion.

 

[tspear]

To be correct, there is no Philadelphia Center, Philadelphia is a TRACON, and Washington Center and New York Center serve it.

This isn't just pedantic, TRACONs and Centers have different equipment that may or may not have an impact in this discussion.

Well, Philly TRACON is a pain in the a**. And I have flown from Miami to Maine, and gone as far west as California via a Southern and Northern route, with a recent trip to Utah going south and returning northern. Philly is the only place I have had such crappy service from ATC. I am fairly positive I have talked to TRACON, Center, radar towers, and non-radar towers along the way.
So, yes they may have different equipment and serve different geographic areas, but that does not explain the service.

Tim

 

[EdFred]

Hmmm...maybe its the accent. Philly gave me bravo clearance AND a guided tour of the philly area. @AdamZ can attest.

 

[tspear]

Hmmm...maybe its the accent. Philly gave me bravo clearance AND a guided tour of the philly area. @AdamZ can attest.

Tim

 

[luvflyin]

To be correct, there is no Philadelphia Center, Philadelphia is a TRACON, and Washington Center and New York Center serve it.

This isn't just pedantic, TRACONs and Centers have different equipment that may or may not have an impact in this discussion.

Philly is one of those airports near Center Boundaries where things get complicated sometimes. While a lot of it’s airspace is within Washington’s sky it is within New York’s Center Surface Boundary. Flight Plan processing is through New York Centers computer. The purple line is the one that defines the Surface Center Boundary. This map is a few years old but these things don’t change often. @John Collins stays in top of this stuff.

 

[Nathan Miller]

Philly is the only place I have had such crappy service from ATC.

You should see some of their football fans