Filing /G

flyzone

flyzone

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Flyzone
I file /A since I don't have an IFR certified GPS (only VFR). Believe it or not I still use VORs, or at least file using them, but I get a lot of help from Foreflight. However, I am coming up on the time when I will be acquiring an IFR GPS.

I am not sure how I would plan a route differently using /G. I currently fly Victor Airways mostly. How will that change for me? I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere but am wondering how most plan their flights differently from /A to /G. I don't see a lot of discussion about this.

I note that there are some GPS routes and that would be an easy one to adopt but there isn't as many, at least in the northeast.

Any guidance would be appreciated.
 
flyzone said:
I file /A since I don't have an IFR certified GPS (only VFR). Believe it or not I still use VORs, or at least file using them, but I get a lot of help from Foreflight. However, I am coming up on the time when I will be acquiring an IFR GPS.

I am not sure how I would plan a route differently using /G. I currently fly Victor Airways mostly. How will that change for me? I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere but am wondering how most plan their flights differently from /A to /G. I don't see a lot of discussion about this.

I note that there are some GPS routes and that would be an easy one to adopt but there isn't as many, at least in the northeast.

Any guidance would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Didn’t all the slant codes go away since the FAA switched over to and started requiring ICAO codes?


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AIM 5-1-8 d. Area Navigation (RNAV)/Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) discusses how to file RNAV routings.

Also, look though AIM Chapter 1, Section 2. Performance-Based Navigation (PBN) and Area Navigation (RNAV) for a lot of additional information on how you can use an IFR GPS under IFR.
 
Big difference is you will be able to fly a lot more direct to destination. When I was working my IFR training I would flight plan only crazy airway routing. I found that often you can file a lot more direct or expect a lot more direct- key is though you have to not be scared to ask for it. You will get to know the route l that you fly where you can expect it more often.
 
OK, so we don't use that anymore. My filing is most automatic using Foreflight that fills out the form based on my inputs. Seems like the suggested routing then doesn't care much about what equipment I have What I get isn't very different from what others get though I do see some from time to time that get nearly direct routing.

Well I guess it is off the the AIM where I need to wade thru 100% of the info to get the 10% I need.
 
flyzone said:
OK, so we don't use that anymore. My filing is most automatic using Foreflight that fills out the form based on my inputs. Seems like the suggested routing then doesn't care much about what equipment I have What I get isn't very different from what others get though I do see some from time to time that get nearly direct routing.

Well I guess it is off the the AIM where I need to wade thru 100% of the info to get the 10% I need.
Click to expand...

It made me pick the codes myself if I recall. Probably worth reviewing how you have it all set up...


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So its a trial by experimentation process. I guess I've already done a good deal of that requesting VOR shortcuts, etc. A lot of times I will get routed to a GPS waypoint and if I am IFR in VFR conditions I'll take it and crank into my VFR GPS. That's never caused me problems.

It looks like currently I am an ICAO DLO/E. Foreflight still stores my /A designation. I'm not sure how/if they use it.
 
flyzone said:
So its a trial by experimentation process. I guess I've already done a good deal of that requesting VOR shortcuts, etc. A lot of times I will get routed to a GPS waypoint and if I am IFR in VFR conditions I'll take it and crank into my VFR GPS. That's never caused me problems.

It looks like currently I am an ICAO DLO/E. Foreflight still stores my /A designation. I'm not sure how/if they use it.
Click to expand...

Prob want to add G... and can simplify by using S.

Cancel the G, sorry missed the VFR gps part...


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I am finally flying behind an IFR GPS (650), and coming from dual VORs it is truly amazing how simple IFR flying is now. I love it. The biggest difference is getting direct to destination routes, but I’m still a little unsure what the criteria are for getting or requesting them. Should I just file for direct destination all the time? What if direct puts me through an MOA or restricted area? Obviously not if it puts me over high terrain, etc.

I got a pop up clearance the other day and it was the simplest clearance I’ve ever gotten: “cleared to the ABC airport via direct maintain 12,000”. I actually hesitated waiting for more, but realized since it was a pop up I already had my frequencies and squawk code and the routing was just that... direct. Simple.
 
flyzone said:
“routed to a GPS waypoint and if I am IFR in VFR conditions I'll take it and crank into my VFR GPS”
Click to expand...
Consider AIM Chapter 1: Air Navigation, section 1-1-17 Global Positioning System (GPS) under 2. IFR Use of GPS (a) General Requirements, (1), which includes ...

Visual flight rules (VFR) and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation, approaches, or as a principal instrument.

Alternatively ...
If in VFR conditions using a VFR gps to fly direct, operate under visual flight rules, (instead of filing IFR)
or, cancel IFR before routing ‘direct’ if the GPS is for VFR-only.

For original ‘direct routing’ question, it appears that ATC options for direct clearances or shortcuts often depend on the airspace (congestion, SUA, SOPs and Letters of Agreement btn sectors, etc.)

In the Northeast for example, IFR at low altitudes in vicinity of DC, Philly, NY etc, ‘direct’ less likely ... unless local time 3:00am :)
 
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flyzone said:
I file /A since I don't have an IFR certified GPS (only VFR). Believe it or not I still use VORs, or at least file using them, but I get a lot of help from Foreflight. However, I am coming up on the time when I will be acquiring an IFR GPS.

I am not sure how I would plan a route differently using /G. I currently fly Victor Airways mostly. How will that change for me? I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere but am wondering how most plan their flights differently from /A to /G. I don't see a lot of discussion about this.

I note that there are some GPS routes and that would be an easy one to adopt but there isn't as many, at least in the northeast.

Any guidance would be appreciated.
Click to expand...


I file direct EVERYWHERE with the exception of going into Philly area (HAR V210 LRP V210 BUNTS) and when I cross Lake Michigan (YULNU RABEE) But I also live in "no one gives a **** about you country"
 
flyzone said:
How will that change for me? I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere
Click to expand...
No, not everywhere. But, depending on where you are, direct clearances, off-published route clearances based on non-VOR waypoints, and direct to destination shortcuts are becoming the norm. Like @EdFred, I think my last airway routing was flying to NYC two years ago. There will be even more of that with the reduction in VORs and airways due to the Minimum Operational Network which pretty much presumes a world with GPS as primary and VOR as an emergency backup..
 
midlifeflyer said:
No, not everywhere. But, depending on where you are, direct clearances, off-published route clearances based on non-VOR waypoints, and direct to destination shortcuts are becoming the norm. Like @EdFred, I think my last airway routing was flying to NYC two years ago. There will be even more of that with the reduction in VORs and airways due to the Minimum Operational Network which pretty much presumes a world with GPS as primary and VOR as an emergency backup..
Click to expand...

It’s interesting it’s also very altitude dependent. Fly where it’s crowded like the flight levels in jets, not so much just go direct. Fly in the teens with little other company, lots of direct...


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EdFred said:
exception of going into Philly area
Click to expand...

OK. I live in the Philly area (not proud of it). I'm sympathetic. I get ridiculous routing from West Chester PA (near BUNTS) to mid Long Island. However - good to know DIRECT routing works elsewhere.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I think my last airway routing was flying to NYC two years ago.
Click to expand...

Philly, New York. I hit the jackpot. No wonder I haven't needed a GPS. If I get one I'll probably fly the same VOR routing.
 
flyzone said:
So its a trial by experimentation process. I guess I've already done a good deal of that requesting VOR shortcuts, etc. A lot of times I will get routed to a GPS waypoint and if I am IFR in VFR conditions I'll take it and crank into my VFR GPS. That's never caused me problems.
Click to expand...

Legally, you should say "unable" until you add an IFR certified RNAV source. We just upgraded our /A to /G this year, too. Here in the mid west, my filing has gone from VORs and victor airways to airport of departure D=> airport of destination. Easy peazey.
 
flyzone said:
So its a trial by experimentation process. I guess I've already done a good deal of that requesting VOR shortcuts, etc. A lot of times I will get routed to a GPS waypoint and if I am IFR in VFR conditions I'll take it and crank into my VFR GPS. That's never caused me problems.

It looks like currently I am an ICAO DLO/E. Foreflight still stores my /A designation. I'm not sure how/if they use it.
Click to expand...

Best is to use the following for your current situation:

ICAO Equipment: S, D
ICAO Surveillance: E, B1 (This would be for a GTX 335, a GTX 345 would be E, B2).

When you add GPS, if it is WAAS, you will probably update the codes to:
ICAO Equipment: S, G, D, R
ICAO Surveillance: E, B1
ICAO PBN: C2, D2

I work at ForeFlight. If you send an email to team@foreFlight, I or someone else can setup your equipment codes for you. The slant codes are only used if you file using the Domestic/FAA form, otherwise they are ignored. ForeFlight will auto select your ICAO equipment codes if you do not select them yourself. For /A, the following are used:
ICAO Equipment: S, D
ICAO Surveillance: C

If you do choose to file IFR using the FAA/Domestic Form, it will always be filed using the ICAO form anyway, but will auto convert your FAA equipment codes as described. The default is ICAO for filing and the equipment codes used are the ones specified in the ICAO equipment code section of the Aircraft profile.

There are a few ADS-B codes you should also specify to get the best clearances.
 
PPC1052 said:
Legally, you should say "unable"
Click to expand...
I'm aware of that. However, I make a note in my flight plan that I am "VFR GPS equipped". My equipment code spec does not include GPS. I've had a couple of ATC controllers on IFR flights ask if I would accept a direct-to waypoint. One was on a routing deviation (NY area) even though he knew how I was equipped. He was interested in heavy traffic routing and I was about to cause him some headaches near JFK. I accepted the routing. I did this and would only do in VFR conditions as it was on that day. If IFR I would not do it unless I knew I was about to break out of clouds. A slippery slope I'm sure but I guess that is why I'll be investing soon.

It is interesting to know that, like others, you've had a lot of success with direct routing. That's more motivation for me even though I mostly fly in non-direct routing friendly spaces. The reality of a VFR GPS is something like a 30 ft. difference max. I've never experienced a GPS outage or RAIM notice and that's in 25 years.
 
John Collins said:
Best is to use the following for your current situation:

ICAO Equipment: S, D
ICAO Surveillance: E, B1 (This would be for a GTX 335, a GTX 345 would be E, B2).
Click to expand...

Thanks for those clarifications. I do need to change mine then: SD/EB2 (GTX345)
 
John Collins said:
Best is to use the following for your current situation:

ICAO Equipment: S, D
ICAO Surveillance: E, B1 (This would be for a GTX 335, a GTX 345 would be E, B2).
Click to expand...

It is very cool that my changes in Foreflight for these codes carry across to my backup iPad and phone automatically.
 
AA5Bman said:
The biggest difference is getting direct to destination routes, but I’m still a little unsure what the criteria are for getting or requesting them.
Click to expand...

AIM 5-1-8 d. Area Navigation (RNAV)/Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) discusses how to file RNAV routings.

flyzone said:
However, I make a note in my flight plan that I am "VFR GPS equipped". My equipment code spec does not include GPS. I've had a couple of ATC controllers on IFR flights ask if I would accept a direct-to waypoint.
Click to expand...

AIM Chapter 1, Section 2. It is very specific as to what you can use to navigate on an IFR clearance. Being in VMC does not change that.

The controllers don't know what you have the equipment to legally navigate to. They expect the pilot to tell them when they can't legally accept a clearance that they have given.
 
flyzone said:
I file /A since I don't have an IFR certified GPS (only VFR). Believe it or not I still use VORs, or at least file using them, but I get a lot of help from Foreflight. However, I am coming up on the time when I will be acquiring an IFR GPS.

I am not sure how I would plan a route differently using /G. I currently fly Victor Airways mostly. How will that change for me? I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere but am wondering how most plan their flights differently from /A to /G. I don't see a lot of discussion about this.

I note that there are some GPS routes and that would be an easy one to adopt but there isn't as many, at least in the northeast.

Any guidance would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
The problem for me, in southern Ontario and Quebec, is that they've retired most of the Victor airways. It was like losing old friends, because of all the memories I have from trips along them. We have mainly GPS-based T-routes now in the corridor between Windsor, ON and Québec, QC.
 
David Megginson said:
We have mainly GPS-based T-routes now
Click to expand...
Yes,

Yes, the T routes are in our area as well (PHL-NYC) but they are not all that numerous. As mentioned it seems they are sticking with many of the past patterns of Victor Airways here. It seems logical that when traffic is as dense as it is here that these old routes may be the best ways to stage and route traffic but it does take a big bite out of time and fuel. I mean I guess we all can't go direct in the northeast particularly as traffic grows. So GPS and direct routing seem to be mostly for the wide open spaces - which is most of the rest of this great land, or also known as "no one gives a **** about you country". I guess I'll still plan to get my IFR GPS. Around here its mostly needed for approaches.
 
flyzone said:
Yes,

Yes, the T routes are in our area as well (PHL-NYC) but they are not all that numerous. As mentioned it seems they are sticking with many of the past patterns of Victor Airways here. It seems logical that when traffic is as dense as it is here that these old routes may be the best ways to stage and route traffic but it does take a big bite out of time and fuel. I mean I guess we all can't go direct in the northeast particularly as traffic grows. So GPS and direct routing seem to be mostly for the wide open spaces - which is most of the rest of this great land, or also known as "no one gives a **** about you country". I guess I'll still plan to get my IFR GPS. Around here its mostly needed for approaches.
Click to expand...
I think that's a bit harsh -- good people are as common in middle as on the coasts :) -- but as far as being able to fly direct IFR, it sounds like it is "fly (straight) over country" compared to the more densely-populated areas.
 
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flyzone said:
I file /A since I don't have an IFR certified GPS (only VFR). Believe it or not I still use VORs, or at least file using them, but I get a lot of help from Foreflight. However, I am coming up on the time when I will be acquiring an IFR GPS.

I am not sure how I would plan a route differently using /G. I currently fly Victor Airways mostly. How will that change for me? I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere but am wondering how most plan their flights differently from /A to /G. I don't see a lot of discussion about this.

I note that there are some GPS routes and that would be an easy one to adopt but there isn't as many, at least in the northeast.

Any guidance would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I fly out of the Dallas area so departures include a SID. After the SID I usually file direct to the destination or an arrival point on the STAR of my destination.
 
flyzone said:
I'm not sure if ATC would let me file direct everywhere
Click to expand...

They will, usually, if my flight avoids airspace that is Bravo, restricted, MOA, or just congested.

My state, Iowa, has none of those, and sure enough, ATC does give me direct for IFR flights around here.
 
NoHeat said:
They will, usually, if my flight avoids airspace that is Bravo, restricted, MOA, or just congested.

My state, Iowa, has none of those, and sure enough, ATC does give me direct for IFR flights around here.
Click to expand...
Even in the dense airspace between Windsor ON and Québec QC, while I'll never get direct in my initial clearance, I'll often get cleared direct once I'm at altitude and talking to Centre. Ditto for departing NYC or Boston heading home to Ottawa.

They just generally don't want to do that until you're at altitude and they know what else is going on (e.g. what runways the big airports are using for arrivals/departures).
 
flyzone said:
I make a note in my flight plan that I am "VFR GPS equipped".
Click to expand...

From the Opposing Bases podcast https://www.opposingbases.com/ I have learned that depending on the level of facility, type of radar equipment used, and even the individual controller's preferences, remarks you enter on the flight plan may not be seen or may only be partially seen. They have the ability to look up the full remarks but apparently it takes accessing a separate system and numerous keystrokes which they don't do very often and often can't remember how to do.
 
gsengle said:
Didn’t all the slant codes go away since the FAA switched over to and started requiring ICAO codes?


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Click to expand...
Doesn't have to change anything, just gives you more flight planning flexibility and more instrument approach options.
 
Whether or not you get involuntary airway routing when you fly a GPS equipped plane depends on location. In and out of basically any terminal area in California will get you some sort of waypoint or airway routing - forget about direct. Best I can get is direct LHS from the Sacramento area, if I'm flying at 11000'. Then I'm on an airway all the way home.

In Southern California, between SBP and SDM, good luck being on anything other than a published TEC route, with some exceptions, and direct routing ceases south of Santa Barbara.

Still, regardless, I'm happy to have it all set up in the GPS and not needing to tune VORs constantly to make airways.
 
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