Filing a Flight Plan vs Flight Following

[luvflyin]

let me ask this....
let's say you're on VFR flight following....
have a squawk code
...and at some point along the flight you just stop talking to anyone...or you miss a handoff and just never talk to anyone again..... or you fall off the scope without a word...
what does the controller do? How far do they go?..... Would they handle it just the same as someone on an IFR flightplan?....but they wouldn't clear the airspace i presume like and IFR, since there isn't a clearance as such....so ?
Seems like I should know the answer, so I suppose that's my rust showing.

They aren’t going to ‘clear the airspace.’ Being VFR there is no separation requirement so there is no need to. Losing Radar AND comm can set the SAR system into action starting with an ALNOT. But only if it’s ‘abnormal.’ I think there was an incident once were a guy crashed close to an airport and didn’t get looked for for a pretty long time. There was nothing ‘abnormal’ about dropping off Radar there that close to the airport. Here’s what their rules say:

b. Consider an aircraft to be in an emergency status and initiate ALNOT procedures in this section immediately when there is an abnormal simultaneous loss of radar and communications with an IFR aircraft or VFR/SVFR aircraft receiving flight following services. This situation may be applicable to an aircraft operating in a non-radar environment and an unexpected/abnormal loss of communications occurs.

 

[CharlieD3]

We are in an ever increasingly autonomous world.

Radar
Autopilots
Glass panels
Oh my!

Now, ADSB, auto land.

While these should all be tools we use, it remains we are PIC.

Unless under IFR, regardless of the tools in our cockpit, we are RESPONSIBLE.

While it's nice to have the handholding of the toys above in addition to FF, Steingar is right.

FF is "as workload allows" and just like the gizmos in your panel, can fail.

I, and probably Steingar, were trained in an era when we were told to keep our eyes outside the cockpit, while instructors did all they could to distract us, disable things willy nilly, and generally do all they could to make us self reliant in the cockpit.

Now, with GPS on the road, autopark, Google maps, and the ubiquitous gadgets in the world; we don't have to be aware or knowledgeable about much of anything.

It has migrated into the cockpit.

Just remember, the Sim showed Sully should not have landed in the river... Had he not, the results would have been similar to those we saw with the 737max jets. Lack of the ability to aviate.

Now, I WILL use FF, and I will file flight plans. Probably more often than not. But I won't rely on the handholding, will not be complacent, will not be lulled into trusting the nanny.

 

[sourdough44]

I’m much more likely to use FF than file a VFR flight plan. It all depends on where one is going & a host of factors, some individual.

 

[steingar]

Are you just trolling? That is a horribly flippant attitude.

That it your opinion to which you are completely entitled. Lets try this. You do you, and I'll do me.

 

[snglecoil]

Very interesting to see the opinions and convincing arguments for and against both services from some very experiences pilots here. Despite most of my training being done under a Bravo, none of my instructors covered flight following in any depth. In fact, my instrument and commercial instructor told me he preferred not to talk to ATC if it wasn't required. Having spoken with several controllers, the vast majority highly recommend flight following. It helps them out a great deal and gives you a secondary set of eyes especially in busy airspace...yes, even with ADS-B. Despite the mandate, I have very recently had an uncomfortably close encounter with a Champ in rule airspace that did not show up on ADS-B.

So my personal rule is to get flight following on cross country flights. If I'm local or heading out to do maneuvers, I still might pick it up in certain situations, but it generally works out better to coordinate with local traffic if it is a known training area. As far as VFR flight plans, I don't know how it works with EFBs outside of ForeFlight, but with ForeFlight it is so easy to file, activate, and close a VFR flight plan, I can't come up with a good reason not to do it on cross countries, even if I am getting flight following.

 

[Tusayan]

Having spoken with several controllers, the vast majority highly recommend flight following. It helps them out a great deal and gives you a secondary set of eyes especially in busy airspace...yes, even with ADS-B. Despite the mandate, I have very recently had an uncomfortably close encounter with a Champ in rule airspace that did not show up on ADS-B.

Having spent my fair share of hours flying a negative transponder, negative ADS-B Out aircraft in rule airspace, legally, it’s perhaps incumbent on me to remind those who might forget that neither ATC nor ADS-B In will see all traffic that is legally within that airspace. ATC might see the primary return for some types of planes, I’m guessing a fabric covered Champ with no engine driven electrical system might not be one of them.

Nowadays flying a GTX335 equipped plane I use FF mainly when flying through Class E airspace where a lot of airliners are descending, or if looking to transit through Class B. Otherwise I prefer to avoid contact with the ground when flying VFR cross country.

Air to air works a lot better in my area for local flights, wouldn’t call approach to fly around the local area.

I filed a VFR flight plan once 15 years ago, cannot see doing it again.

 

[James331]

This might help.

I also am a fan of a properly tested SPOT with a good contact list saved to it and their SAR insurance

 

[Tantalum]

Yes. I have to think the other poster was being hyperbolic or making a joke.. there was just too many low-hanging fruit in the post.. like the assumption that air traffic control always sees you and will magically come rescue you when you blip off their screen, the blatant disregard for other traffic around you and the assumption that air traffic control will route them away from you, the notion that the Mooney is so stout that you will walk away from a crash, this idea that talking to your passengers is more important than monitoring the radio.. etc

Use FF, especially and busier airspace, it's polite to everyone around you and good practice and will make you a better pilot

We had some local controllers come to one of our club meetings here and they were practically begging us to talk to them and use flight following, even if we were just planning on maneuvering in a practice area somewhere

 

[Tusayan]

Controllers like to control, not hard to imagine

 

[Tantalum]

Controllers like to control, not hard to imagine

when they came to our club they liked knowing what the little spam cans were up to so they knew how to handle bigger traffic.. it was obvious but also not something most people think about, that big airplanes don't just jump from class Bravo to class Bravo but have to transit over to them somehow

some dude meandering around at 6000 ft just outside of a Bravo sightseeing potentially screwing up approach and arrival patterns is going to be a real headache for air traffic control.. at least if you're talking to them, they can know what you're doing

 

[smv]

I also am a fan of a properly tested SPOT with a good contact list saved to it and their SAR insurance

There have benn cases where the SPOT unit was faulty and would not actually send the SOS signal. findmespot.com has a function within your device settings to put your device's status in "Test" mode. This allows you to fully test the proper operation of your device by allowing you to actually press the SOS button. Fortunately, it is not like the BRS and can be activated more than once.

 

[luvflyin]

This might help.

I also am a fan of a properly tested SPOT with a good contact list saved to it and their SAR insurance

That tells a story. One thing missing from it is not 'filing' a flight plan but relying on an 'informal' one by telling family or friends when you are due and relying on them to start making the phone calls saying he was supposed to be here by now but he isn't. Saw a stat once that it wasn't as much longer from relying on FSS to initiate SAR via being overdue on a 'Flight Plan' then I would have thought. Make sure you know your 'Heirs' very well before relying on them for this.

 

[steingar]

Yes. I have to think the other poster was being hyperbolic or making a joke.. there was just too many low-hanging fruit in the post.. like the assumption that air traffic control always sees you and will magically come rescue you when you blip off their screen, the blatant disregard for other traffic around you and the assumption that air traffic control will route them away from you, the notion that the Mooney is so stout that you will walk away from a crash, this idea that talking to your passengers is more important than monitoring the radio.. etc

Use FF, especially and busier airspace, it's polite to everyone around you and good practice and will make you a better pilot

We had some local controllers come to one of our club meetings here and they were practically begging us to talk to them and use flight following, even if we were just planning on maneuvering in a practice area somewhere

So everyone has to agree with you or they're a danger to everyone around them. Yeah, right. The responsibility to not hit anything lies solely with the PIC, and not with ATC, iPads, or anything else. Always has been, always will be. The number of actual midair collisions in the US yearly can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I'll take my chances. I'm the PIC in my aircraft, not a guy in a booth.

Number 1 killer of pilots is still related to the weather. How many of you guys stridently screaming about FF and who important it is actually have instrument ratings?

 

[CharlieD3]

Yes. I have to think the other poster was being hyperbolic or making a joke.. there was just too many low-hanging fruit in the post.. like the assumption that air traffic control always sees you and will magically come rescue you when you blip off their screen, the blatant disregard for other traffic around you and the assumption that air traffic control will route them away from you, the notion that the Mooney is so stout that you will walk away from a crash, this idea that talking to your passengers is more important than monitoring the radio.. etc

Use FF, especially and busier airspace, it's polite to everyone around you and good practice and will make you a better pilot

We had some local controllers come to one of our club meetings here and they were practically begging us to talk to them and use flight following, even if we were just planning on maneuvering in a practice area somewhere

I believe your "hyperbolic" poster stated he IS monitoring guard... Even while chatting with passengers...

How many, instead, AREN'T monitoring guard? Too busy listening to Bluetooth through their headsets, and counting on controllers to always have their backs (on an assignment that is specifically "as workload allows")?

I suppose they can always pull the red lever...

 

[Tantalum]

So everyone has to agree with you or they're a danger to everyone around them. Yeah, right.

Not with everything. But FF is a tool that can be helpful.. especially in busier airspace. At least where I've flown as PIC (Boston, Palm Beach area, LAX area) you're really setting yourself at a disadvantage not getting full advantage of the ATC we spend tax dollars on, plus it makes ATC and some other pilot's workload higher having to look for that traffic that is not in sight, but same altitude, opposite direction "not talking to him" - perhaps in other areas it's less valuable .. you can fly the whole way up Owen's valley (20-40 minutes) without a single call

The responsibility to not hit anything lies solely with the PIC, and not with ATC

Totally agree with you there. ATC can't be a crutch for that. But if it's "free" (well, actually not really) why not use it?

actually have instrument ratings?

I do. They still call out traffic, sometimes even in IMC .. and sometimes there is someone they're not talking to, so it's hard to know what the pilot's intention is. Just because you and I might be paying attention doesn't mean they are

monitoring guard

Lots of people don't do this.. it's surprising. I like to do it as part of a paranoia incase I missed a radio call or some new TFR pops up somewhere. It's also one button away in case you do need help. I've yet to hear it, but in the back of my mind I'm also hoping I'll one day hear someone say "your on GUAAARDDDD" - which is apparently a thing but I've never heard it

 

[donjohnston]

It's hard to figure how a VFR flight plan would get you found faster than flight following.

It would be interesting to see the data behind these numbers.

With just a flight plan, they don't start looking until the flight plan doesn't get closed, someone calls, or someone hears an ELT. And all they have to find the location is the filed path and the ELT.

But with flight following, I would think the last controller working that flight (assuming no distress call) would see it descending, failing to respond and then disappearing from the scope would initiate the search. That they have a general idea where to look would also help.

 

[Tusayan]

It’s hard to figure how a VFR flight plan does anything quickly when compared with other methods now available.

My wife has a Flightaware link on her phone including my tail number. By pushing it with her thumb she can see my track. ADS-B coverage is almost complete in the US above some altitude I’ve forgotten for the moment, but I’d guess that the response to me being on the ground in some remote location would be a lot faster relying on her than a VFR flight plan that in any case I’ll never file.

 

[Palmpilot]

This might help.

I also am a fan of a properly tested SPOT with a good contact list saved to it and their SAR insurance

Is there a link to that? (Not disputing it; I just want to be able to cite it.)

 

[James331]

Is there a link to that? (Not disputing it; I just want to be able to cite it.)

Old screen shot off my iPad from back when I was on Facebook. Sorry.

I think it was some CAP dude who posted it, we have some of their kind in here I think?

 

[snglecoil]

It's hard to figure how a VFR flight plan would get you found faster than flight following.

Again this is just my personal preference, but I think of it this way. Even if I get flight following, a VFR flight plan is one more opportunity that at least someone will be looking for me if I don't close in at my destination. There are times when flight following may no longer be provided. Could be that the controller cuts you loose due to high workload. I've had that happen only once so that is rare in my limited experience. However, if your destination is uncontrolled, there is always that space about 10 miles out that you generally cancel flight following and switch to advisories. It is just a extra tool available if you want to take advantage of the potential benefit it provides. If someone doesn't find that a compelling reason use it, that's fine too. I get it.

 

[GeorgeC]

ATC pointing out a primary-only return is about the only value I can see FF providing over ADS-B.

 

[Tantalum]

How is adsb this solution that means people don't need to communicate with ATC for traffic alerts?

Is everybody actively scanning the traffic on foreflight and self-policing?

Is there an assumption that everyone else is talking to ATC and they will shu people out of your way?

if you're not talking to air traffic control how are they supposed to know where you're going or what your intentions are in order to shu others?

And how is the person looking at you on their foreflight supposed to know what you plan on doing?

Genuinely curious

 

[geezer]

I have attended many FAA and AOPA safety meetings, and the data that JAMES 331 posted is familiar, at least in general. The numbers change, but not dramatically.

80 % of my flying has been cross country, and the great majority of that has been with some form of flight following.

About 60 % has been VFR, and that same percent was with VFR flight plans.

I have been searched for 3 times, all within 3 hours of departure. That is not 3 hours after their last known contact, that is after departure. The first was a 3 hour flight that the FAA transmitted to my destination as a 2 hour flight, and initial search had started before I landed. A phone call cleared up the error, and stopped the procedure. One, my son upchucked, I landed, we cleaned up the plane without closing the flight plan, and when I filed my new one, they advised that I was overdue at my previous destination, they were in the initial phone call search for me. The other was a similar glitch, no harm done.

In the busy parts of the East Coast, being denied flight following is not frequent, but in a flight from Washington to Florida, it occurs more than once each way most trips.

Westbound when the winds aloft makes staying low over the Appalachians takes you out of radar coverage, and flight following is cancelled. The same can be true in some parts of Kentucky and southern Illinois, where I have sometimes flown quite low.

The VFR flight plan is another layer of protection, which stays in effect when flight following is terminated for whatever reason. I do stay on the flight following frequency to hear what they are telling other, usually IFR traffic, which can be useful in my own decisions to modify my route.

Last, I monitored GUARD most of the time, and have reported ELT signals. Happily, all were the result of very hard landings, and were located on airports.

I have never found filing VFR flight plans to be a chore, it was a simple extension of the briefing, as the proposed plan changed little in the course of the briefing, just slight alterations of total time due to improved wind data.

For those who already have extended experience with ADSB:

What have you found to be the result if your signal fails when outside of required ADSB airspace?

Do the institute an on frequency search?

Who do they contact if you do not respond promptly?

How much do they know about your destination, so they can call there to see if you arrive?

Obviously, I am not up to speed on the benefits of ADSB, beyond traffic alerts, it is just something we cannot fly without in the Washington ADIZ.

 

[steingar]

My problem with VFR flight plans is it is very easy to forget to close them, especially if you're meeting people at your destination. Usually there are folks who now I"m coming, so if I don't show up there will be someone who knows. Of course, the other thing that bears mentioning is most of my flights doing other than benign weather are very local over populated areas. If I go down, worst case I'm going down in someone's field and they'll be wondering what my airplane is doing there. Actually, the worst case is I go down in the congested neighborhoods off the departure ends of my runways. We takes our chances.

Running out of gas, mechanical engine outs and stunts still kill way more pilots than mid airs. Not too many fly twins to minimize the risk of an engine out, yet the odds of loosing an engine dwarf the odds of a midair. And there have been midairs of aircraft under the control of ATC. It isn't a magic blanket that keeps you safe. Like the man said, they can help you see transponder-less aircraft where there's primary radar.

 

[James331]

I would highly recommend a spot that sends your info/location/SOS to people who actually care about you and arnt just “doing their job”.

I’ve posted this before, but a good read on trusting “the system” to find you if god forbid something happens.

“These are some of the things that apparently went wrong with the notifications & procedures. They are listed chronologically whenever possible. Note: The aircraft apparently crashed shortly after **********.


1) There was an unconfirmed report in **** on Sunday of smoke on the ridge between *******. Because there was no report of an aircraft emergency, it is unknown what procedures were implemented.
2) Although the FAA reportedly issued an ALNOT Report at ***** -- lots of counties and agencies were NOT notified for several days.
3) **** CAP (usually *******) regularly briefed the extended family on the search area & number of planes assigned. At the time, we did not know that they kept refusing other SAR resources (****** and other volunteers). It is still unclear who they did & did not notify. It is still unclear if they truly had the authority for all command decisions and had the right to refuse competent SAR resources. There seems to be conflicting guidance on this and even the counties didn't seem to know who was in charge.
4) Tuesday evening, I was flabbergasted that the ****** Sheriff's Office dispatcher told me that they were NOT aware of any missing plane even though they were located in ****** -- where the plane was last seen. ****** had briefed me that he was in touch with their acting Sheriff and he knew about it -- but the dispatcher claimed no knowledge of it and wasn't interested in the information.
5) In subsequent days, family & friends were contacting lots of county sheriff's offices to verify that they had been notified. We are still gathering times, dates, names, etc., but several counties including adjoining counties told us on Wednesday & even Thursday that they had received NO notifications on a missing plane in the area. Some counties said that they were quite upset because they had highly trained & equipped SAR resources that would gladly have begun searching days earlier.
6) Wednesday, we were assured that several counties including ******** had lots of ground SAR teams searching the local area. We were contacted on the Facebook page "*****" by private folks in that area who had volunteered their services with horses, ATVs & sleds, etc., but they told us that they were told by the county that they were NOT needed because they already had LOTS of search teams. Later, we received unconfirmed reports that SAR teams were not really deployed in that area after all. We really don't know!
7) When family members were contacting the governors & senators of **** requesting National Guard resources such as Black Hawks and ground search teams, they were repeatedly told that it was impractical because the search area was 2400 sq. miles. This was an invalid reason for rejecting those resources, because there was NO evidence that they ever got out of the valley from the ****** Airport. Shortly after takeoff, there was one single ping received near ****** -- with NO further contact. On Wednesday, a group of us including off duty pilots and an air traffic controller went over every scrap of evidence or absence there of. We went through EVERY conceivable scenario and our group agreed unanimously that there was NO evidence they ever got out of the valley area. On Wednesday night, I contacted CAP ***** and he verbally agreed with our findings. I insisted that because a severe winter storm was forecast, the governors & National Guard must be contacted immediately to mobilize all appropriate resources for Thursday morning. Black Hawk helicopters would be absolutely critical in searching the local ridges, canyons & ledges before they would be buried by snow! One ****** National Guard Black Hawk made one sortie late Thursday afternoon and reportedly were joined by 2 more on Friday. We are unaware of any National Guard ground search resources being deployed.
Because of our connections with the USAF, Wing Commanders or Command Posts at several bases in the region were contacted. Significant resources such as photo reconnaissance aircraft, rescue helicopters and even unmanned drones were reportedly available but had to be officially requested through channels. We had a friend who works with classified satellite imagery that said they could have helped, but we couldn't get anyone in authority to make the request. That imagery and/or unmanned drones could have focused around the ***** area, the mountains just north and east of there, and a few lakes in the area.
9) **** Search & Rescue was contacted by family members and they indicated they could provide technical expertise or deploy teams & equipment if officially requested through channels. That option was not chosen.


End Result: The missing plane was found by a ***** DPS helicopter at approx. 8:00 am, ****** -- 11.2 miles east of the ***** Airport. The pilot, 2 passengers and 2 dogs did not survive.


The **** State Medical Examiner in *** states that the pilot died almost immediately, but his 34 year old girlfriend probably lived 3-4 days. Both of her lower legs were broken, but she eventually died from exposure. He also stated that her 9 year old daughter probably lived for 4-5 days before lying down next to her mother and dying of exposure. Grrrrr! She was relatively uninjured and her tracks were all over the hillside apparently trying to get help. The NTSB Lead Investigator stated a cell phone was found showing that the young girl had been trying to send text messages to her Daddy for help. Grrrr!


I'm sure that there are plenty of officials that feel terrible about this tragedy. But I highly doubt that any one of them would have any idea how horribly the system failed us all in this case. Some of these counties spend a lot of time, effort, and money preparing for SAR missions. We cheapen their dedicated efforts if we don't find the resolve to overcome these critical problems. In honor of our young friends -- we MUST do better and save lives in the future!!!


We will appreciate your efforts to help with this matter. Thank you!”

 

[Brad W]

regarding filing being a "chore"
my instructor during my initial BFR flight was showing me that now you can do it all by text...and they will even automatically text reminders to activate and close the flight plan. With cell phones, and in areas where they work, it sure is a different world from when I was flying...and you had to find a phone.

 

[TommyG]

The new PLB's that are out there are a very valuable tool. For what they cost, compared to the possibility of being found quickly you can not beat. They can be pricey, but as I always tell students, aviation is not a hobby to be cheap with.

 

[swedeflyer]

I wonder if just keeping your ADSB-out equipment on even outside the Mode C veil will help in an unexpected off airport 'landing'

 

[bobmrg]

Ferrying PA-28s from Vero Beach to Seattle I never filed a flight plan and used FF exclusively. On occasion, a controller would tell me that I was leaving his/her airspace and to contact Center in xx miles on xxx.xxx. Worked every time.

Bob

 

[N1120A]

We had some local controllers come to one of our club meetings here and they were practically begging us to talk to them and use flight following, even if we were just planning on maneuvering in a practice area somewhere

And the people who practice in every other area in our local airspace regularly use it. What is it with San Diego's instruction culture that people here don't, at least, call up SoCal and tell them what they're doing. Especially when they are working just next to V23?

So everyone has to agree with you or they're a danger to everyone around them. Yeah, right. The responsibility to not hit anything lies solely with the PIC, and not with ATC, iPads, or anything else. Always has been, always will be. The number of actual midair collisions in the US yearly can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I'll take my chances. I'm the PIC in my aircraft, not a guy in a booth.

Number 1 killer of pilots is still related to the weather. How many of you guys stridently screaming about FF and who important it is actually have instrument ratings?

Tantalum and I both have instrument ratings, and fly IFR 90%+ of the time. And we're having to constantly dodge or get vectored away from VFR targets that aren't talking.

 

[Tantalum]

And we're having to constantly dodge or get vectored away from VFR targets that aren't talking.

#ADSBlife

 

[Tusayan]

Ummm... assuming VMC, IFR flying in Class E does and always will involve avoiding targets that aren't communicating with ATC. I suppose some might prefer that the US airspace be mostly Class D instead of mostly Class E. Having flown places where mandatory ATC contact is the norm and GA is mostly nonexistent as a result I'd call them idiots, but that's just my opinion.

In the San Diego area specifically, air-to-air on 122.75 is used extensively between VFR traffic in VMC. I'd suggest in combination with ADS-B In that its a lot better solution in VMC than talking to the ground, but again that's my opinion.

Either way you make your choice between two real choices. Fantasizing about a world that bends to your will is not very productive.

 

[N1120A]

Ummm... assuming VMC, IFR flying in Class E does and always will involve avoiding targets that aren't communicating with ATC. I suppose some might prefer that the US airspace be mostly Class D instead of mostly Class E. Having flown places where mandatory ATC contact is the norm and GA is mostly nonexistent as a result I'd call them idiots, but that's just my opinion.

In the San Diego area specifically, air-to-air on 122.75 is used extensively between VFR traffic in VMC. I'd suggest in combination with ADS-B In that its a lot better solution in VMC than talking to the ground, but again that's my opinion.

Either way you make your choice between two real choices. Fantasizing about a world that bends to your will is not very productive.

That's absurd. 1) The use of 122.75 is highly variable. I've listened in on 122.75 when getting vectored around some a-hole who was playing around on the airway and they didn't say a peep. 2) ADS-B is irrelevant to ATC when IFR traffic has to be separated from VFR traffic. 3) Who says this is about airspace. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it is the best, safest course of business. When a service that makes you, and others, safer is offered, why not take it?

 

[Tusayan]

Actually the regulations for Class E airspace are fact. Live with it, you're not in court and I'm not arguing with a lawyer for entertainment.

Bye now.

 

[luvflyin]

It's hard to figure how a VFR flight plan would get you found faster than flight following.

It would be interesting to see the data behind these numbers.

With just a flight plan, they don't start looking until the flight plan doesn't get closed, someone calls, or someone hears an ELT. And all they have to find the location is the filed path and the ELT.

But with flight following, I would think the last controller working that flight (assuming no distress call) would see it descending, failing to respond and then disappearing from the scope would initiate the search. That they have a general idea where to look would also help.

All true if you are getting Flight Following. If getting. If. There is no guarantee you will and if you are, there is no guarantee you will remain on it. If you ask the question ‘Flight Plan or Flight Following’ it implies you care about being looked for if you go down. Otherwise there would be no reason to ask the ask the question. That is the only thing a Flight Plan does, gets you looked for. Flight Following can do the same thing and like you said, it can get it done more timely. IF you are getting it when you go down. If. They can say unable. They can terminate it. Once they say “Radar Service Terminated,” they are no longer following you. If you didn’t have a Flight Plan filed and opened or some other thing like a friend or family member expecting you who will sound the alarm, you’re on your own. Best you can hope for is someone saw you crash and 911’d you.

 

[donjohnston]

All true if you are getting Flight Following. If getting. If. There is no guarantee you will and if you are, there is no guarantee you will remain on it. If you ask the question ‘Flight Plan or Flight Following’ it implies you care about being looked for if you go down. Otherwise there would be no reason to ask the ask the question. That is the only thing a Flight Plan does, gets you looked for. Flight Following can do the same thing and like you said, it can get it done more timely. IF you are getting it when you go down. If. They can say unable. They can terminate it. Once they say “Radar Service Terminated,” they are no longer following you. If you didn’t have a Flight Plan filed and opened or some other thing like a friend or family member expecting you who will sound the alarm, you’re on your own. Best you can hope for is someone saw you crash and 911’d you.

That's what's know as overstating the obvious.

And in this case it doesn't have anything to do with the topic.

 

[Jmcmanna]

I have done neither since the advent of ADSB. I hadn't filed a VFR flight plan since I got my PPL, just did it in training because I was told to. Stopped FF once ADSB came in, for the most part I see what they see, though near big airports they've got primary and might see something I don't. Still not worth it. Way more relaxing to just converse with my pax and not have to listen for my tail number.

Interesting viewpoint. I had a near midair recently with an aircraft that didn’t have ADS-B out (requiring an abrupt control input once I saw the other plane). As an ATC, I routine work airplanes moving at 300+ knots groundspeed vs 1200 targets climbing and descending at 100 knots. You are relaxed and enjoying the view as you climb through an arrival to a busy airport, but the passengers on the 737 getting the RA from you might not be. Ignorance is bliss, though....

 

[Jmcmanna]

ATC pointing out a primary-only return is about the only value I can see FF providing over ADS-B.

You don’t get the same trajectory data that ATC does on a target. Also, that target could also be talking to ATC and they know exactly what they are doing where you know they are pointed “Westish at 110 knots”.

 

[Fancy]

I have done neither since the advent of ADSB. I hadn't filed a VFR flight plan since I got my PPL, just did it in training because I was told to. Stopped FF once ADSB came in, for the most part I see what they see, though near big airports they've got primary and might see something I don't. Still not worth it. Way more relaxing to just converse with my pax and not have to listen for my tail number.

First, I fly a Mooney. Mooneys are stout. If I bring it in under control I’m very, very likely to walk away. Second, the vast majority of places I fly are populated, and my crash will be witnessed. Lastly, if I do go down there will be a Mayday issued on Guard (constantly on my radio and monitored, just like you should be) which will include a rough location. Last, I fly an airplane that I own and keep in good shape, not some POS rental. So I'm honestly not at all worried about it.

 

[Shepherd]

Flight plan:
Me: "Mom, I'm going over to Johnny's house."
Mom: "Call me when you get there.
Me: "Aw Mom!"

Flight following:
Me: "Mom, I'm going over to Johnny's house."
Mom (shouting from the window of her car): "Go down the driveway, cross the street, look both ways, now turn left, go straight, watch out for the crack in the sidewalk, now turn right up Johnny's sidewalk. Ring the doorbell. Hello Jane, hello Johnny."
Me: "Aw Mom!"