Filing a Flight Plan vs Flight Following

[Michael Kaminski]

Relatively newer pilot and looking for some clarity here.

To start I believe I am correct in saying filing and activating a flight plan on FF or with 1800wx is NOT the same as asking for flight following. I'd imagine a flight plan just allows emergency services to know where to look assuming you don't reach your destination. Flight following would be the active communication and bouncing of frequencies by ATCC along your flight?

I keep my plane at a Class D airport inside the Cleveland Mode C Veil. I've yet to request Flight Following out of it however my intent was to first try the ground frequency and see if they can help me and if not I would look second to Cleveland Departure for the Class B airport 15 miles away, does this sound right?

Also, on the Flight Plan card it asks for pilots name. When requesting Flight Following does not request this does it?

Thanks!

 

[RyanB]

I keep my plane at a Class D airport inside the Cleveland Mode C Veil. I've yet to request Flight Following out of it however my intent was to first try the ground frequency and see if they can help me and if not I would look second to Cleveland Departure for the Class B airport 15 miles away, does this sound right?

Call the Clearance Delivery controller and request FF with them.

To start I believe I am correct in saying filing and activating a flight plan on FF or with 1800wx is NOT the same as asking for flight following. I'd imagine a flight plan just allows emergency services to know where to look assuming you don't reach your destination. Flight following would be the active communication and bouncing of frequencies by ATCC along your flight?

Correct.

Also, on the Flight Plan card it asks for pilots name. When requesting Flight Following does not request this does it?

FF does not require your name. That on the flight plan only.

It’s scary that pilots can get through training and not understand this stuff.

 

[Bill]

They are independent entities

One can file a flight plan and not be on flight following
One can be on FF but not file a flight plan
One can do both

 

[dans2992]

The controller has no clue about your VFR flight plan.

If you want “fully integrated” service, get your IFR rating and fly IFR. That comes with its own set of compromises though....

 

[donjohnston]

It’s scary that pilots can get through training and not understand this stuff.

"Scary"?

That's a bit hyperbolic, isn't it?

The only time I've ever filed and activated a VFR flight plan was in training. It's possible that the difference was explained to me and just got lost in all the other information that I mentally flagged a relevant. Or it could be that it was never explained to me and like the OP, I just figured it out on my own.

But calling it scary?

I find it interesting that many get through flight training and never told to lean the mixture for ground ops. But I wouldn't say it's "scary".

 

[kath]

I've found that "who to ask for a flight-following squawk" varies from airport to airport. At my home airport, they like it if you ask Ground. (My Delta is "abutting" a Charlie and so you'll want the squawk early and have it before taking off.) Where I used to train (underneath a Bravo), you'd ask Tower. At some places farther from Charlies and Bravos, if you ask on the ground they'll say, "Oh, just ask Approach once you're airborne."

So yeah, call your Ground and see what the local custom is. You can use regular English, too: "Ground, if I want a squawk for flight following, should I request that from *you*?"

Nothin' scary whatsoever about a "newer" pilot asking for clarification on things.
Or any pilot, really.

 

[RyanB]

I started training in a fuel injected aircraft and purchased one as well. I am one of those that couldn’t even begin to tell you about “mixtures”.

Yep, case and point .

 

[Pilawt]

At some places farther from Charlies and Bravos, if you ask on the ground they'll say, "Oh, just ask Approach once you're airborne."

That's the way it is at my home field (GYR, Goodyear AZ), and it's under a shelf of the PHX Bravo.

 

[Jonathan Weimer]

Im near the Cleveland Class B too (3G3) you can call for FF in the air or usually with tower on the ground. I've had success with both Cleveland Approach and CAK Approach neither of them are usually to busy lol. Also that might be helpful because Burke Tower isn't full time.

 

[RussR]

I started training in a fuel injected aircraft and purchased one as well. I am one of those that couldn’t even begin to tell you about “mixtures”.

Every fuel injected airplane I've flown has had a mixture control. Do you maybe mean "carb heat"?

 

[Jim K]

I'm surprised flight following wasn't covered better in op's training, but instructors are all different. Mine wanted me on flight following all the time, not least so he could track me on flight aware and live atc. To the point where now I get nervous when I'm not talking to a controller.

Questions asked and answered, but I will add that if you look up the airport in the chart supplement or your efb, the approach control will be listed and would be the place to start when asking for ff while airborne.

Usually ground can do it, but I've been to a couple deltas where they say they can't and to request it when airborne, and then they'll give you the appropriate frequency.

 

[av8orDave]

Seems there are many Northeast Ohio pilots around here... we keep our plane at Medina, 1G5. To answer the question, CLE or CAK approach will both be glad to hook you up with flight following, although CLE will dump you every now and then if they get "busy". Happy flying!

 

[Michael Kaminski]

I did a lot of flying out of 1G5

 

[Stephen Shore]

No need for me to bring up the differences between FF and a VFR flight plan - done already above.

I have a 21 year old son flying airplane getting his IR from our local instructor. I REQUIRE him to get FF every time he does a cross country. For one thing, it is good training with radio work when he gets his IR and the other thing is it provides help with traffic that of course a VFR flight plan does not. That being said, if he had an emergency and had to land off airport, the VFR flight plan would be of more help, assuming that he did not have time to let ATC know while on FF what was happening.

Honestly, I think that most pilots when they fly VFR don't file a flight plan, but most use FF for a cross country of any decent distance. Maybe that is just the case within the small group that I regularly talk to. Some may not use anything (VFR flight plan or FF) for a "short" run to a neighboring airport, but for any type of real cross country I believe that most use FF or file an IFR flight plan (which is what I do).

 

[Michael Kaminski]

Every fuel injected airplane I've flown has had a mixture control. Do you maybe mean "carb heat"?

I fly a plane w/ a Rotax 912is and there is no mixture control on it they have a H.A.C. which is a high altitude compensator developed by ROTAX which adjusts the air/ fuel mixture automatically from sea level to 6500 m altitude using a special BING carburetor.

 

[Michael Kaminski]

Yep, case and point .

I guess what I said was incorrect. I understand how and what a mixture control is for. What I was trying to say is in all of my flying so far I've never actually flown a plane with a mixture control, so I have no experience with actually adjusting it in real life. That still should not be scary. As far as Flight Following we did cover it in ground school, I just wanted a refresher and to make sure I had everything correct still.

 

[RussR]

I fly a plane w/ a Rotax 912is and there is no mixture control on it they have a H.A.C. which is a high altitude compensator developed by ROTAX which adjusts the air/ fuel mixture automatically from sea level to 6500 m altitude using a special BING carburetor.

Fair enough. I was think about all the fuel-injected 172s and PA-28s that are used for training. Actually, anything with a Lycoming or Continental (and some Rotaxes). Yours certainly is a unique case.

 

[Tantalum]

This shows more a deficiency in what the DPEs look for and what the CFIs teach.. in my training days we always did both, used VFR flight plans and got flight following. There is a big difference in the two, and when you come out a certificated pilot you should generally know the difference. I am very surprised you never requested or got flight following while flying with your instructor, that's a pretty big hole, in my opinion, in instruction

Personally I found VFR flight plans to be tedious.. and only *so* good in actually helping you get rescued.. flight following is a much better active back and forth communication with ATC, and should the crap go south, you are already talking to someone who can send emergency services your way

my intent was to first try the ground frequency and see if they can help me and if not I would look second to Cleveland Departure for the Class B airport 15 miles away, does this sound right?

Basically, also, be prepared to tell them your aircraft type, code (IE, like slant Golf if you are gps, etc.) and what altitude you plan to cruise at, along with your destination.. make sure you get the VFR altitudes correct

Good luck, and that's nothing personal against you, but very surprising that the instructor didn't do at least a couple flights, including cross country, with flight following

 

[Cogito]

I fly a plane w/ a Rotax 912is and there is no mixture control on it they have a H.A.C. which is a high altitude compensator developed by ROTAX which adjusts the air/ fuel mixture automatically from sea level to 6500 m altitude using a special BING carburetor.

The bing carburetors automatically adjust mixture, as you described, on Rotax 912 ULS engines. In a fuel injected 912is the engine ECU controls the mixture. Either way, there's no mixture knob. https://www.stockflightsystems.com/tl_files/downloads/emu912is/EMU912iS_Presentation.pdf

 

[steingar]

I have done neither since the advent of ADSB. I hadn't filed a VFR flight plan since I got my PPL, just did it in training because I was told to. Stopped FF once ADSB came in, for the most part I see what they see, though near big airports they've got primary and might see something I don't. Still not worth it. Way more relaxing to just converse with my pax and not have to listen for my tail number.

 

[Stephen Shore]

I have done neither since the advent of ADSB. I hadn't filed a VFR flight plan since I got my PPL, just did it in training because I was told to. Stopped FF once ADSB came in, for the most part I see what they see, though near big airports they've got primary and might see something I don't. Still not worth it. Way more relaxing to just converse with my pax and not have to listen for my tail number.

Wow...OK. ADSB takes the place of ATC. OK.

 

[RyanB]

I have done neither since the advent of ADSB. I hadn't filed a VFR flight plan since I got my PPL, just did it in training because I was told to. Stopped FF once ADSB came in, for the most part I see what they see, though near big airports they've got primary and might see something I don't. Still not worth it. Way more relaxing to just converse with my pax and not have to listen for my tail number.

You do realize that even if you have ADSB, ATC isn’t automatically tracking you / watching you? If you go down, they’ll hardly notice. Under FF, you’re assigned a code AND you’re in radio communication. So, if you do go down someone will notice almost immediately. I’m afraid that having ADSB is giving you (and others) a false sense of security.

 

[Brad W]

I'm one flight in on my rusty piloy BFR/rental checkout. One of the first things the instructor did in the "ground" portion was to walk through the online briefing and flight plan filing. I can't really say i found it surprising really, but it was I suppose to me a bit. Yeah, new format and all, but the only part of that that's really "new" for me is all the different equipment codes there are now....seems like an endless list, & I'm not even sure he knew the correct one to select with 100% certainty!

Anyway, back in the day.... I used to file plans and request flight following. To me, I'd prioritize the flight following. I'd rather have the code and the freq dialed up. I get in trouble all I have to do is key the mike.... but for significant distance trips I'd still file. I remember fairly often getting the old "unable" response when requesting following, so...

I’m afraid that having ADSB is giving you (and others) a false sense of security.

Getting my virtual aviationfix in lately, I've been watching a lot of youtube. Kinda get a kick out of a few times I've seen folks when the controller will call out traffic, to NOT look out to the direction called, but instead to IMMEDIATELY look down inside to find it on the screen.

 

[Dana]

Hmmm. Haven't filed a flight plan since 1977 when I was a student. Not sure if flight following existed then, at least by that name, but I've never used it. But then most of my flying until recently has been in NORDO aircraft, and I still don't have a transponder so I guess FF is out anyway.

 

[Michael Kaminski]

This shows more a deficiency in what the DPEs look for and what the CFIs teach.. in my training days we always did both, used VFR flight plans and got flight following. There is a big difference in the two, and when you come out a certificated pilot you should generally know the difference. I am very surprised you never requested or got flight following while flying with your instructor, that's a pretty big hole, in my opinion, in instruction

Personally I found VFR flight plans to be tedious.. and only *so* good in actually helping you get rescued.. flight following is a much better active back and forth communication with ATC, and should the crap go south, you are already talking to someone who can send emergency services your way


Basically, also, be prepared to tell them your aircraft type, code (IE, like slant Golf if you are gps, etc.) and what altitude you plan to cruise at, along with your destination.. make sure you get the VFR altitudes correct

Good luck, and that's nothing personal against you, but very surprising that the instructor didn't do at least a couple flights, including cross country, with flight following

We did it once during my training w/ my CFI. I flew the Hudson river two months back and got the Tower to set up my flight following before departing from Cleveland to NY. Again, I was just asking as it's been over two months since I've done Flight Following and it's been since flight school that I filed a flight plan. On my checkride the only thing my DPE asked me to demonstrate was how to file and activate a Flight Plan (not flight following) in which case I pulled it up on Foreflight and showed him where I would go to file and activate. I already had my aircraft profile built w/ the equipment type of /G and that was sufficient for him.

I only asked this as I plan to take a XC flight in a few days and just wanted to make sure I wasn't rusty.

 

[RyanB]

This shows more a deficiency in what the DPEs look for and what the CFIs teach.. in my training days we always did both, used VFR flight plans and got flight following. There is a big difference in the two, and when you come out a certificated pilot you should generally know the difference. I am very surprised you never requested or got flight following while flying with your instructor, that's a pretty big hole, in my opinion, in instruction

Agree.

 

[chemgeek]

Filing a VFR flight plan gets you very little benefit in terms of search and rescue. Obtaining flight following is much, much better, as you should normally be in constant contact with ATC throughout the flight. At a class D airport, you should be able to pick up a squawk code and ATC frequency to use from ground or clearance delivery. I haven't filed a VFR flight plan in decades. I either file IFR or pick up flight following from the appropriate approach or center frequency if I can't get it on the ground.

 

[Tantalum]

Filing a VFR flight plan gets you very little benefit in terms of search and rescue

that was the big reason I stopped doing it, and found flight following to be orders of magnitude better

There could be some very remote places where you are outside radar coverage, and/or flight following is not a viable option, where I can see having a flight plan might help, say navigating Alaska, upper parts of Canada, etc., just so *someone* knows you're missing

 

[Todd82]

I'm sure POA will tell me I'm wrong (POA gonna POA lol) but my theory is this..

Let's say I'm flying I66-VVS to see the parents. If I file VFR flight plan and don't show up at Connellsville or my dad tells them I didn't show, CAP, etc. now has 190 miles to search some of which is pretty much middle of nowhere, assuming I haven't talked to anyone other than I66 traffic and squawk 1200.

If I call up CMH approach for flight following and get a code shortly after takeoff here in Wilmington, they'll have an eye on me the whole way, hand me off to CLE center then CKB approach and if at some point I become unresponsive and/or suddenly fall off their scope at least they can narrow the search area to a significantly smaller area... I might still be dead but at least I won't feed as many buzzards and coyotes hopefully.

 

[Jim K]

I'm sure POA will tell me I'm wrong (POA gonna POA lol) but my theory is this..

Let's say I'm flying I66-VVS to see the parents. If I file VFR flight plan and don't show up at Connellsville or my dad tells them I didn't show, CAP, etc. now has 190 miles to search some of which is pretty much middle of nowhere, assuming I haven't talked to anyone other than I66 traffic and squawk 1200.

If I call up CMH approach for flight following and get a code shortly after takeoff here in Wilmington, they'll have an eye on me the whole way, hand me off to CLE center then CKB approach and if at some point I become unresponsive and/or suddenly fall off their scope at least they can narrow the search area to a significantly smaller area... I might still be dead but at least I won't feed as many buzzards and coyotes hopefully.

100%. Also, if you have to declare an emergency, you already have someone paying attention to you, and ready to help you with vectors and clearing out airspace.

 

[Michael Kaminski]

I'm sure POA will tell me I'm wrong (POA gonna POA lol) but my theory is this..

Let's say I'm flying I66-VVS to see the parents. If I file VFR flight plan and don't show up at Connellsville or my dad tells them I didn't show, CAP, etc. now has 190 miles to search some of which is pretty much middle of nowhere, assuming I haven't talked to anyone other than I66 traffic and squawk 1200.

If I call up CMH approach for flight following and get a code shortly after takeoff here in Wilmington, they'll have an eye on me the whole way, hand me off to CLE center then CKB approach and if at some point I become unresponsive and/or suddenly fall off their scope at least they can narrow the search area to a significantly smaller area... I might still be dead but at least I won't feed as many buzzards and coyotes hopefully.

This was sort of my take on it as well. When I flew from CGF > POU before finally departing POU for the Hudson I started to think the same way I was constantly on the radio speaking with someone at least every 20 minutes. Like you alluded to at least in an emergency they can tell when the last communication was and where I was at that point. I've only filed an actual flight plan once with my CFI otherwise don't really see a point to do it if I plan to be under FF.

 

[Geosync]

Flying VFR I don't file a VFR flight plan but almost always pick up flight following. Just another later of protection. If I don't, I find myself deviating from my course quite a bit to avoid ADSB traffic I can't pick up visually. And if the other guy is talking to ATC, he's saying to him/her "traffic alert, other target maneuvering, not talking to him!" causing that poor guy to desperately search for me out there in the haze. ATC(if not busy and paying attention) can assist with a heading to turn to or restricting an altitude until it's safe to continue. I guess if lived and flew in a sparsely populated airspace then maybe I wouldn't get flight following as much.

But for a long XC, do at least get flight following. Every little bit helps. You'd be surprised of the amount of skydiving ops and restricted airspace that ATC can remind you of.

 

[Brad W]

let me ask this....
let's say you're on VFR flight following....
have a squawk code
...and at some point along the flight you just stop talking to anyone...or you miss a handoff and just never talk to anyone again..... or you fall off the scope without a word...
what does the controller do? How far do they go?..... Would they handle it just the same as someone on an IFR flightplan?....but they wouldn't clear the airspace i presume like and IFR, since there isn't a clearance as such....so ?
Seems like I should know the answer, so I suppose that's my rust showing.

 

[TommyG]

You should ask your CFI for a refund. Who knows what else he failed to teach you.

 

[steingar]

You do realize that even if you have ADSB, ATC isn’t automatically tracking you / watching you? If you go down, they’ll hardly notice. Under FF, you’re assigned a code AND you’re in radio communication. So, if you do go down someone will notice almost immediately. I’m afraid that having ADSB is giving you (and others) a false sense of security.

First, I fly a Mooney. Mooneys are stout. If I bring it in under control I’m very, very likely to walk away. Second, the vast majority of places I fly are populated, and my crash will be witnessed. Lastly, if I do go down there will be a Mayday issued on Guard (constantly on my radio and monitored, just like you should be) which will include a rough location. Last, I fly an airplane that I own and keep in good shape, not some POS rental. So I'm honestly not at all worried about it.

 

[RyanB]

First, I fly a Mooney. Mooneys are stout. If I bring it in under control I’m very, very likely to walk away. Second, the vast majority of places I fly are populated, and my crash will be witnessed. Lastly, if I do go down there will be a Mayday issued on Guard (constantly on my radio and monitored, just like you should be) which will include a rough location. Last, I fly an airplane that I own and keep in good shape, not some POS rental. So I'm honestly not at all worried about it.

Sounds like you’re immune from ever having an accident! I hope your arrogance never disappoints you.

 

[Jim K]

let me ask this....
let's say you're on VFR flight following....
have a squawk code
...and at some point along the flight you just stop talking to anyone...or you miss a handoff and just never talk to anyone again..... or you fall off the scope without a word...
what does the controller do? How far do they go?..... Would they handle it just the same as someone on an IFR flightplan?....but they wouldn't clear the airspace i presume like and IFR, since there isn't a clearance as such....so ?
Seems like I should know the answer, so I suppose that's my rust showing.

I got stuck by clouds on my last long trip, shortly after the handoff from Jacksonville to Savannah. I had a hole to descend through, and advised them as such, and it quickly became clear I was going to have to head back south and land. I wound up getting too low to pick up Savannah approach, and the last couple transmissions were garbled. I got down through the hole, got the airplane trimmed back out, checked for towers, etc., and tried Savannah a couple more times with no response. I write all my freqs. on my kneeboard, so I dialed JAX back up, and heard them trying me, as well as a Baron flying above my position trying to get me. The relief in the controller's voice when I checked in was audible. They were looking out for me, and honestly it felt pretty good to know that. No idea what they would've done if I hadn't gotten back up on the radio, or if they could still see me on radar at that point.

 

[Jumpmaster]

My ground school instructors emphasized the benefits of flight following and as a student pilot, we were not allowed to leave the pattern without it. Flying out of a Class D, we got FF from Ground. That said, very little was emphasized about filing flight plans. We were taught how to do it, and you had to demonstrate you could file on over the phone with 1-800 Weather but beyond that all they talked about was what happens if you fail to close it. And yep, happened to me on day. Got so busy at a fly-in I didn’t close out, even when I got a text reminder to do.

 

[Mohamed Ahmed]

Relatively newer pilot and looking for some clarity here.

To start I believe I am correct in saying filing and activating a flight plan on FF or with 1800wx is NOT the same as asking for flight following. I'd imagine a flight plan just allows emergency services to know where to look assuming you don't reach your destination. Flight following would be the active communication and bouncing of frequencies by ATCC along your flight?

I keep my plane at a Class D airport inside the Cleveland Mode C Veil. I've yet to request Flight Following out of it however my intent was to first try the ground frequency and see if they can help me and if not I would look second to Cleveland Departure for the Class B airport 15 miles away, does this sound right?

Also, on the Flight Plan card it asks for pilots name. When requesting Flight Following does not request this does it?

Thanks!

Hi Michael

They are not the same. Flight plan is your planned intentions. It may be postponed, canceled or executed early. Flight following is a second sets of eyes in the sky watching for you, they will alert you of potential hazards as collision, airspace violations, spacing and sometimes weather.

Please keep in mind that flight following is not 100% guaranteed for VFR trips. Controllers priority is for IFR. It happened few days ago in Atlanta center were each and every pilot contacted approach for flight following was asked to standby, as there was a distressed plane with engine failure to the southwest of B airspace at night. In addition to that, flight following doesn’t work in some areas where terrain prevent radar contact at certain altitudes, on which as I assume a GA pilot may not be able to climb above...

Personally, I do both in each a and every flight that is more than 30 minutes, and always try to get flight following for the shorter ones. Never hurt to ask


Thank you
Mohamed

 

[N1120A]

That's the way it is at my home field (GYR, Goodyear AZ), and it's under a shelf of the PHX Bravo.

Phoenix Approach had a pretty bad rep, though they seem pretty friendly, about FF. Can you get ground squawks in any of their towered airports?

I have done neither since the advent of ADSB. I hadn't filed a VFR flight plan since I got my PPL, just did it in training because I was told to. Stopped FF once ADSB came in, for the most part I see what they see, though near big airports they've got primary and might see something I don't. Still not worth it. Way more relaxing to just converse with my pax and not have to listen for my tail number.

Are you kidding? Do you realize that ATC rarely references ADS-B? A 1200 target is a 1200 target, and one they can't give a full picture to other pilots for. "Oh, there is a reasonably fast moving VFR target that I'm not talking to, could be Mooney, could be a Debonair, could be a Tiger, no idea. No clue when they'll turn either."

It is bad enough having to avoid pilots who turn into me that are on FF, like I had to to the other day. At least I knew where the kid was going, so I could get a sense of the intentions.

Filing a VFR flight plan gets you very little benefit in terms of search and rescue. Obtaining flight following is much, much better, as you should normally be in constant contact with ATC throughout the flight. At a class D airport, you should be able to pick up a squawk code and ATC frequency to use from ground or clearance delivery. I haven't filed a VFR flight plan in decades. I either file IFR or pick up flight following from the appropriate approach or center frequency if I can't get it on the ground.

Not all Class D airports can do it, usually because approach doesn't want to let them. Still, I totally agree..

let me ask this....
let's say you're on VFR flight following....
have a squawk code
...and at some point along the flight you just stop talking to anyone...or you miss a handoff and just never talk to anyone again..... or you fall off the scope without a word...
what does the controller do? How far do they go?..... Would they handle it just the same as someone on an IFR flightplan?....but they wouldn't clear the airspace i presume like and IFR, since there isn't a clearance as such....so ?
Seems like I should know the answer, so I suppose that's my rust showing.

They probably won't just ignore what happened.

First, I fly a Mooney. Mooneys are stout. If I bring it in under control I’m very, very likely to walk away. Second, the vast majority of places I fly are populated, and my crash will be witnessed. Lastly, if I do go down there will be a Mayday issued on Guard (constantly on my radio and monitored, just like you should be) which will include a rough location. Last, I fly an airplane that I own and keep in good shape, not some POS rental. So I'm honestly not at all worried about it.

Are you just trolling? That is a horribly flippant attitude.