obxflygrl
Filing Flight Plan
What does it mean when the FAA Medical division sends your file to their legal counsel because you failed to provide the information requested after 3rd class medical was issued by the AME.
File sent to Legal Counsel
- Thread starter obxflygrl
- Start date
Depends. Usually medical certificate revocation is done by the medical division without forwarding to legal. OTOH, if it followed a failure to disclose something it may indicate an evaluation for pilot certificate action.
Either way , "forwarding to legal counsel" by the FAA should be a prompt for "consulting with legal counsel" by the pilot.
Either way , "forwarding to legal counsel" by the FAA should be a prompt for "consulting with legal counsel" by the pilot.
obxflygrl
Filing Flight Plan
Not a failure to disclose, but a failure to provide requested information. Side note: I did send more information as requested, but apparently it wasn't what they wanted. Their request was for an updated consult, which I provided, or thought I did.
martym
Pre-takeoff checklist
It depends on what information you didn't provide and whether or not it was required for you to hold your current medical, if you do in fact currently hold a medical or if your medical was deferred until more information was provided. Stick close to the mailbox because you'll be getting a return receipt letter shortly.
obxflygrl
Filing Flight Plan
They first asked for a vision test, which I provided. Then they asked for an updated consult from the treating physician with details and prognosis. The treating physician said they could't promise a prognosis and cleaned up their original report which apparently had some redundancies. They said they really couldn't give any more information that wasn't in the original report.
Tools
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2020
- Messages
- 1,969
- Display Name
Display name:
Tools
Well... it’s not uncommon for the left and right hand to NOT be communicating.
Nonetheless, it may not be bad, but it CANNOT be good.
Let your AME know, see what they say. Consider a simpler legal approach like joining AOPA at a legal services provided level and have them help ya out.
Nonetheless, it may not be bad, but it CANNOT be good.
Let your AME know, see what they say. Consider a simpler legal approach like joining AOPA at a legal services provided level and have them help ya out.
Lindberg
Final Approach
No one here can give you a better answer without more details, and you should not share those details here. But what's apparent is someone at aeromedical thinks there's a legal issue. Whether there actually is or not, the point where they're getting legal advice is, as @midlifeflyer says, the point at which you should be getting legal advice. From an attorney experienced at dealing with the FAA.
obxflygrl
Filing Flight Plan
I guess I'm reluctant to get legal advice because my ame doesn't think I need it. I got my pilots license purely for the joy of it and haven't flown as PIC in several years but wanted to maintain the ability to get current when and if I wanted to start flying again.
Sounds like you should have gone to Basic Med, if you previously had a medical.
Oh well: c’est la FAA.
If there was a certificate that has been issued and the FAA now wants to revoke it, they have to go through legal.
I cannot understand why the process of getting a medical, or keeping a medical certificate is so damn difficult. It’s like the FAA wants to run around with their chest all puffed up trying to pick a fight with anyone who may have a crack in their armor. I will never understand why this process is so friggin cumbersome. Learning to fly the damn plane is by far the easier part of becoming a pilot!
There is no penalty, no downside whatsoever, not even any real outside criticism, when they deny a medical. But if even one person gets approved and then kills people, they will catch all kinds of hell, from Congress and the public.
So this is what you get.
obxflygrl
Filing Flight Plan
I'd be fine with that at this point. I guess I'm just venting frustration with the process and myself for not going for basic med in the first place. I suppose it's fortunate I haven't flown with this medical.
Lindberg
Final Approach
If they haven't yet decided to revoke your medical certificate and you voluntarily surrender it for cancelation and if they accept it, then you'd still be eligible for basic med. This is the sort of thing an attorney would be able to advise you on.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Which part aren't you sure of?
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, that is not quite right. If they accept it, it gets contorted into a denial/ acknowledgment letter..that is why they won’t accept it......
once legal is involved the won’t accept it.
Don't make the assumption that "legal advice" automatically means doing battle. It means getting professional advice from someone who will know the right questions to ask you, maintain confidentiality, assess the degree you are at legal risk, and advise on a course of action to minimize it. Not a bunch of SGOTI who know and should know nothing about your specific situation.
I'm a bit surprised your AME, hearing that there's a referral to Legal involved has a "no big deal" attitude.
Last edited:
obxflygrl
Filing Flight Plan
He really doesn't, I'm assuming because the initial letter was within the 60 day limit and I'm a private pilot. Perhaps I'm being misled but from what I can gather, they are sending to legal because I didn't provide the requested information and a revocation will follow because the AME issued a certificate. IS a revocation the same as a denial?
Lindberg
Final Approach
I'm happy to be corrected if something I wrote is wrong. But as I said, this would only work if they haven't already decided to revoke the certificate and accept the surrender.
No, but the effects are largely the same.
APPLICATIONS are DENIED.
CERTIFICATES are REVOKED.
A denied application means you can still (subject to the general restrictions on operating under disabilities) exercise the existing certificate. A revocation says STOP using the certificate now.
Either way, you're barred from basic med or sport pilot medical-less flight.
Might be talking a bit of semantics.
As a matter of policy, once the FAA decides you are not qualified to to hold the medical certificate, they will not accept a surrender and will pursue revocation (pretty much what you said, I think). It's still possible in certain circumstances to negotiate a "surrender" to avoid the formality and some (perceived or real) consequences of revocation, but the negotiated settlement will include agreement by the airman to treat it as a denial (what Bruce said).
Lindberg
Final Approach
Seems we're in violent agreement. And what the OP needs is legal counsel to walk him through whatever options he might actually have.
Rcmutz
Cleared for Takeoff
If you still have a valid medical certificate and it hasn’t been revoked yet, why not just go get a Basic Med done like Right Now!
Brad Z
Final Approach
Under those circumstances they won't accept it. From the FAA enforcement order:
b. Voluntary Surrender of Medical Certificates.
(1) If the FAA determines that an airman medical certificate holder does not meet the qualification requirements of 14 C.F.R. part 67 after the vesting of the certificate, i.e., beyond the period within which the FAA can deny issuance of the certificate, and the certificate holder attempts to surrender his or her airman medical certificate, FAA personnel refuse the voluntary surrender of the certificate.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
in this case the person was demanded by certified mail to return the "should not have been issued" certificate. The AME will be getting his penance (and if he has a bunch of these will be dismissed), and the failure to return the certificate will ultimately be met with the US marshall service if she does not copy. The poster has only a few days to get her certificate to the agency certified. The moment the general counsel action begins, there is no turning back/ no returning certificates. The investigation will proceed and the outcome will be a disaster.
Last edited: