FIKI Cessna 206 Replacement

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Luna Hunt

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EnbyLuna
I am in the market for a new aircraft as our Cessna U206G isn't quite cutting it anymore, especially when it comes to winter flying. We're looking for an aircraft equipped with FIKI because we live in an area with a lot of unflyable days due to known icing. The mission profile typically includes carrying 5 passengers plus their luggage on a 600nm cross country, so we need a plane with a hefty useful load to accommodate everyone comfortably.

We're aiming for a model that's a bit more modern, something from the late 1990s to early 2000s. We had our eyes on the A36 Bonanzas, but unfortunately, they don't have the useful load capacity we need. A turbocharged or turbo-normalized engine is on our wish list because of the performance benefits, but we're cautious about getting into something with the higher maintenance demands and operational costs of twin or turbine engines.

We're at a bit of a crossroads and could really use some insight. Any recommendations or advice on aircraft that meet these criteria? Your experience and guidance would be incredibly valuable.
 
Depending on how big the passengers are, you might find an earlier PA46 (Piper Malibu) that will do that or a Piper Seneca. The Seneca would need the long range tanks though.
 
A FIKI single-engine piston that can fit 5 passengers plus luggage? If those passengers are over the age of about 10, I don't think such a thing exists.

My first thought for someone who likes their 206 but wants more and FIKI is a 208 (Caravan). I know a guy who did exactly that about a year ago. That's turbine, but his transition was pretty easy. Although the 208 has a pretty specific type of use case, given its size and performance.

(I'm not clear on how many people you mean - 5? or 5 passengers (i.e. + pilot = 6)? Also if this is your family (i.e. some of those are kids), or coworkers/employees (i.e. they're all adults.))
 
Call up CAV, might be cheaper in the long run, your model is listed and I believe it's fiki. It's about $70k for a Mooney.

www.cav-systems.com

Cessna 206 - CAV Systems

Looking for an ice protection system that can be retrofitted for your Cessna 206. TKS fluid based systems lead the market. Read more.
www.cav-systems.com www.cav-systems.com
 
You would be looking for a King Air C-90......minimum!!
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Single-engine piston FIKI doesn't get you through icing conditions. It gets you through PIREPs of icing conditions. The PA-46 could get you what you asked for, but if icing is causing you to cancel flights in your 206 I am not sure that making those flights in a PA-46 would be wise. The comfort level and useful load may also not work out for your passengers and luggage. At least climb into one before putting serious money into buying one.

Other than that, you're probably looking at a Navajo (unpressurized), Cessna 340, 414, or 421 (pressurized), or turbine. Each of those options has pros and cons to consider.
 
I know a guy that went from a 206 to a Kodiak 100.
 
MauleSkinner said:
And if icing is a regular issue, I’d probably avoid the twin Cessna airfoil.
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You get a pressurized twin to get above the icing, not to stay in it. And any icing you can’t get above in a 421, you probably can’t get above in anything short of turbine power.
 
iamtheari said:
Single-engine piston FIKI doesn't get you through icing conditions. It gets you through PIREPs of icing conditions. The PA-46 could get you what you asked for, but if icing is causing you to cancel flights in your 206 I am not sure that making those flights in a PA-46 would be wise. The comfort level and useful load may also not work out for your passengers and luggage. At least climb into one before putting serious money into buying one.

Other than that, you're probably looking at a Navajo (unpressurized), Cessna 340, 414, or 421 (pressurized), or turbine. Each of those options has pros and cons to consider.
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Even a piston single FIKi aircraft can get you through light or moderate icing if turbocharged especially if TKS equipped vs boots.

Granted one should use the equipment to flee ice of course but any FIKI bird has already been tested extensively in the real world before being certified
 
beestforwardspeed said:
Even a piston single FIKi aircraft can get you through light or moderate icing if turbocharged especially if TKS equipped vs boots.

Granted one should use the equipment to flee ice of course but any FIKI bird has already been tested extensively in the real world before being certified
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I would rephrase that to say that any FIKI bird has been tested in a very specific set of icing conditions that are very possibly not what you’re flying through.
 
I have time in the C-340, 414 and 421, mostly the 414. They are not great ice planes, but better than nothing. Here in the southwest icing was usually sporadic and not wide spread. So usually 15-20 minutes in icing conditions, and it was just worrisome, not a big problem. I would not go into light icing if it was wide spread and I could not get above it.

One night in a 414 I had to hold 25 minutes in light icing waiting for a freight dog to go missed after missed after missed (7 times) before he went away. The wings had more ice than I wanted and at holding speed the boots were not totally effective. FINALLY I got my turn for the approach. I used 130 instead of 120, and when I leveled off over the runway, I pulled the power to idle and the yoke slammed into my belly. The plane fell the last couple feet to the runway. Classic tail stall and a real eyeopener for me.



(The gps approach had lower minimums than the VOR approach. The freight dog did not have a gps.)
 
Zeldman said:
I have time in the C-340, 414 and 421, mostly the 414. They are not great ice planes, but better than nothing. Here in the southwest icing was usually sporadic and not wide spread. So usually 15-20 minutes in icing conditions, and it was just worrisome, not a big problem. I would not go into light icing if it was wide spread and I could not get above it.

One night in a 414 I had to hold 25 minutes in light icing waiting for a freight dog to go missed after missed after missed (7 times) before he went away. The wings had more ice than I wanted and at holding speed the boots were not totally effective. FINALLY I got my turn for the approach. I used 130 instead of 120, and when I leveled off over the runway, I pulled the power to idle and the yoke slammed into my belly. The plane fell the last couple feet to the runway. Classic tail stall and a real eyeopener for me.



(The gps approach had lower minimums than the VOR approach. The freight dog did not have a gps.)
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My experience is with the Cirrus sr fiki system, it will handle they conditions you described easily. I was very impressed with how the system worked. But you really have to be careful not to get complacent. Better not to hang around in ice.
 
PaulS said:
My experience is with the Cirrus sr fiki system, it will handle they conditions you described easily. I was very impressed with how the system worked. But you really have to be careful not to get complacent. Better not to hang around in ice.
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And not run out of fluid.!! :yesnod:

I flew C-210s that had the TKS system. I never had a chance to use it, but was really impressed when watching the training film.
 
RussR said:
A FIKI single-engine piston that can fit 5 passengers plus luggage? If those passengers are over the age of about 10, I don't think such a thing exists.

My first thought for someone who likes their 206 but wants more and FIKI is a 208 (Caravan). I know a guy who did exactly that about a year ago. That's turbine, but his transition was pretty easy. Although the 208 has a pretty specific type of use case, given its size and performance.

(I'm not clear on how many people you mean - 5? or 5 passengers (i.e. + pilot = 6)? Also if this is your family (i.e. some of those are kids), or coworkers/employees (i.e. they're all adults.))
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Sorry I should have clarified, 5 people total, 1 pilot and 4 adult passengers (average weight of 180 lbs.). So, something like a Cirrus wouldn't be large enough.

PaulS said:
Call up CAV, might be cheaper in the long run, your model is listed and I believe it's fiki. It's about $70k for a Mooney.
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We already have the TKS system on our 206 from CAV, it is an emergency use only system, not FIKI.

iamtheari said:
Single-engine piston FIKI doesn't get you through icing conditions. It gets you through PIREPs of icing conditions. The PA-46 could get you what you asked for, but if icing is causing you to cancel flights in your 206 I am not sure that making those flights in a PA-46 would be wise. The comfort level and useful load may also not work out for your passengers and luggage. At least climb into one before putting serious money into buying one.

Other than that, you're probably looking at a Navajo (unpressurized), Cessna 340, 414, or 421 (pressurized), or turbine. Each of those options has pros and cons to consider.
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We looked at the PA-46, looked like a great plane, but didn't have the useful load required, could only really carry about 3-4 people.
 
Luna Hunt said:
Sorry I should have clarified, 5 people total, 1 pilot and 4 adult passengers (average weight of 180 lbs.). So, something like a Cirrus wouldn't be large enough.


We already have the TKS system on our 206 from CAV, it is an emergency use only system, not FIKI.


We looked at the PA-46, looked like a great plane, but didn't have the useful load required, could only really carry about 3-4 people.
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Might be worth an upgrade to FIKI, although I believe the price is the same even if you already have the inadvertent.
 
PaulS said:
Might be worth an upgrade to FIKI, although I believe the price is the same even if you already have the inadvertent.
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There is no FIKI system for the 206, we called CAV systems a while back and there is no configuration of a 206 that could be equipped with FIKI. The only STC is for the inadvertent system.
If we could have upgraded our 206 to FIKI, we would have done it immediately, that would our perfect airplane.
 
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In your situation, I would either afford a turbine or fly commercially. Good luck.
 
Luna Hunt said:
Sorry I should have clarified, 5 people total, 1 pilot and 4 adult passengers (average weight of 180 lbs.).
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Yeah, 5 adults plus bags, that's a hard task for any single engine piston, let alone finding one that will fly far enough for you. Add in the FIKI requirement, and I don't think such a beast exists. Got to go twin or turbine for that.
 
I have never flown a plane that I didn't want to get out of the ice NOW!!!!! Anything that doesn't have the performance to do that is pretty much a no go for me FIKI or not. I have had a few FIKI turbo props that would not stay in the air if you stayed in the ice.
 
Aren't there some FIKI 600/700 Aerostars out there? Payload and range may be able to do the job of a 600nm trip in one go. It'd sure as heck beat the C206 there even with a fuel stop and your passengers would be a lot happier at the end. Doesn't help the single-engine ask, but I'd be eyeballing the 601P before a Cessna 3XX/4XX.
 
Concur with the Aztec. Cheapest way, especially if you allow a leisurely fuel stop. Otherwise go compete with Cape Air and see if you can snatch a well worn 402C, that oughta do the trick.

As to the icing angle, I think FIKI and what it actually amounts to, is being wildly misunderstood here. It's a much more limited capability in pistons than some people understand it to be.
 
Since you want FIKI and being able to carry about 1200 pounds (passengers and bags) before fuel you need a piston twin (Navajo or C-402). If you stay SEL that would be a turbine (PC-12 or Caravan).
 
hindsight2020 said:
Concur with the Aztec. Cheapest way, especially if you allow a leisurely fuel stop. Otherwise go compete with Cape Air and see if you can snatch a well worn 402C, that oughta do the trick.

As to the icing angle, I think FIKI and what it actually amounts to, is being wildly misunderstood here. It's a much more limited capability in pistons than some people understand it to be.
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My experience with FIKI tks in the Cirrus has been fantastic. If you compare it to a 757, then yes, it's wildly limited. If you decide to fly in SLD or freezing rain, then it's very limited and you are going to get a hard lesson. But if you use your head, use it as intended, which is as a get through an icing area quickly, an area no more than moderate, it's a great tool that greatly expands the days you can fly.

I would have recommended it to the OP, but they need much more useful load, at least that's what we have to guess since important details are left out. If they truly want what they ask, they will need to open the wallet wider. Otherwise they already have a very capable airplane, with icing capabilities, that should work for all but the worst days.
 
Zeldman said:
FINALLY I got my turn for the approach. I used 130 instead of 120, and when I leveled off over the runway, I pulled the power to idle and the yoke slammed into my belly. The plane fell the last couple feet to the runway. Classic tail stall and a real eyeopener for me.
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Tail stall? Is that because there the boots on the tail were less effective than on the wings?
 
NoHeat said:
Tail stall? Is that because there the boots on the tail were less effective than on the wings?
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Probably.

The boots on the specific C-414s I flew were not that great to start with. It usually took 2, 3 and sometimes 4 activation's of the boots to get most of the ice off the wings. Good thing ice encounters in the southwest was usually a short amount of time.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I don't think the Aztruck is FIKI, but they have a great reputation for lugging tons of ice!
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They are not FIKI, but so what? It is not as if they couldn't pass the test, Piper just elected not to spend the money to certify them. An Aztec will carry ice better than most light FIKI aircraft.
 
Kristin said:
They are not FIKI, but so what? It is not as if they couldn't pass the test, Piper just elected not to spend the money to certify them. An Aztec will carry ice better than most light FIKI aircraft.
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I agree, but the OP specifically asked about suggestions for FIKI-aircraft. Aztec reputation aside, it's not FIKI so I was disqualifying it for that reason, nothing to do with actual capability.
 
I don't know much about them, but over the weekend I was watching, just for curiosity's sake, some videos about Comp Air. They've got three models that might fit the need here.... if experimental is in the running.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I agree, but the OP specifically asked about suggestions for FIKI-aircraft. Aztec reputation aside, it's not FIKI so I was disqualifying it for that reason, nothing to do with actual capability.
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I don't think anybody actually understands what FIKI means.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I agree, but the OP specifically asked about suggestions for FIKI-aircraft. Aztec reputation aside, it's not FIKI so I was disqualifying it for that reason, nothing to do with actual capability.
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Lots of folks use "deiced" and "FIKI" interchangeable as many pilots are not terribly clear on the difference.
 
For tks, fiki essentially adds redundancy, plus for the cirrus a heated aoa indicator/ stall vane. The inadvertent systems are pretty capable until you lose the pump. Then you better be able to get out quickly.
 
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