Figuring out the wind?

[Trogdor]

Before you ask, yes I have asked my CFI but I want to get some more feedback here as well.

I have hit the dreaded and absolutely infuriating typical learning plateau everyone seems to hint out during flight training (I'm ~20 hours including a dual XC). My main problem is consistency on crosswind landings. Most of them are reasonable but some are poor or at least not passing. It mainly has to do with me pushing the aileron in the wrong direction as I try to "feel" the wind when I transition to the round-out and flare.

After a lot of postmortem analysis, I realize that this mainly has to do with my confusion on where the wind is coming from. Yesterday, for instance, I looked at the wind sock before I took off, applied the correct aileron on takeoff and subsequently didn't apply any on landing (I forgot) or applied it in the wrong direction because the wind was now coming from the opposite side.

Does everyone inspect the wind sock on final to figure this out? What if you can't see/read the wind sock for whatever reason?

 

[dwalt]

While the windsock is helpful, to me it’s far more obvious which way the wind is blowing from by the direction of the crab I’m flying on final.

Nose pointed right? Wind’s off my right. Nose pointed left? Wind’s off my left. The more you’re crabbing, the stronger the wind.

I feel like there is often too much thought, and therefore over controlling, given to crosswind landings. Hold the crab until you’re over the numbers. Then kick the nose straight with rudder and use opposite aileron to stop the plane from drifting off centerline. Rudder points the nose, aileron stops the drift.

If you think about it this way, the upwind wheel will naturally touch down first instead of trying to force it down the “right way.”

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

If it is blowing like snot from one side, then, yea, the wind sock is helpful to plan. Otherwise, pretty much ignore it. The wind at the touchdown point is going to be different than the wind at the wind sock - it curls around trees, buildings, whatever.

Rudder keeps the nose pointed down the runway, aileron keeps you in the center. Just do what ya gotta do to keep the airplane going where it should.

 

[Stewartb]

My home strip is surrounded by lakes. That's what I use to determine wind. Surface winds here swirl so the sock is 50/50. As I fly I always know what the wind direction is. Lakes, smoke, whatever clue I can get. As for landing? Fly the plane. Keep in on runway heading. You'll be taught to slip and to crab. Both are good. Both work. Either way your job is to fly an extension of the center line and maintain it. Forget your rehearsed ideas. Fly the plane.

 

[EdFred]

Before you ask, yes I have asked my CFI but I want to get some more feedback here as well.

I have hit the dreaded and absolutely infuriating typical learning plateau everyone seems to hint out during flight training (I'm ~20 hours including a dual XC). My main problem is consistency on crosswind landings. Most of them are reasonable but some are poor or at least not passing. It mainly has to do with me pushing the aileron in the wrong direction as I try to "feel" the wind when I transition to the round-out and flare.

After a lot of postmortem analysis, I realize that this mainly has to do with my confusion on where the wind is coming from. Yesterday, for instance, I looked at the wind sock before I took off, applied the correct aileron on takeoff and subsequently didn't apply any on landing (I forgot) or applied it in the wrong direction because the wind was now coming from the opposite side.

Does everyone inspect the wind sock on final to figure this out? What if you can't see/read the wind sock for whatever reason?

How did you remain on center line for final and landing? This isn't a knock. This is a legit question you need to think about and answer. When you come up with the answer of how you maintained center-line on approach, hopefully the light bulb goes off.

And no, I don't look at the windsock for crosswind correction. I line up on final, and make corrections required to keep the plane on the extended center-line of the runway.

 

[midwestpa24]

You use the rudder to keep the nose pointed at the far end of the runway, you use whatever aileron is necessary to keep the centerline between the mains. Don't worry the details of the wind, use the control inputs it takes to keep the wheels aligned with the runway and right down the centerline.

 

[sarangan]

Before you ask, yes I have asked my CFI but I want to get some more feedback here as well.

I have hit the dreaded and absolutely infuriating typical learning plateau everyone seems to hint out during flight training (I'm ~20 hours including a dual XC). My main problem is consistency on crosswind landings. Most of them are reasonable but some are poor or at least not passing. It mainly has to do with me pushing the aileron in the wrong direction as I try to "feel" the wind when I transition to the round-out and flare.

After a lot of postmortem analysis, I realize that this mainly has to do with my confusion on where the wind is coming from. Yesterday, for instance, I looked at the wind sock before I took off, applied the correct aileron on takeoff and subsequently didn't apply any on landing (I forgot) or applied it in the wrong direction because the wind was now coming from the opposite side.

Does everyone inspect the wind sock on final to figure this out? What if you can't see/read the wind sock for whatever reason?

Windsock is only useful prior to takeoff when trying to decide which runway to use. After you are airborne, use your flight controls to compensate for drift. This needs to happen instinctively rather than by doing a mental calculation of the crosswind component. If you are using left rudder to maintain alignment, then use right aileron and vice versa.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

If you’re at the same field doing T&Gs, takeoff and landing crosswind config is the exact same.

I like to “bug” the wind direction from ATIS/AWOS, whether takeoff or landing. Helps visualize. (I have an HSI so I dial in the runway heading as well).

Just think of it as what you would do if the wind were to tip you over...which wing would it lift, and what would your reaction be? What do you do in airborne turbulence? Same thing.

Discipline yourself to hold that correction when taxiing at all times. Will become second nature.

 

[MuseChaser]

Our home airport almost always has significant crosswinds, often fairly strong, variable, and gusty. I wish I could say I felt supremely comfortable with them, but the simple truth is that I don't. Safely competent is about it, but getting better.

Some of my past errors that may help clarify things for the OP...

1. Not looking down the runway enough/looking too close to the plane. Once you start to flare, there's no point in looking over the nose much. If you look close, you won't see the changes in the apparent shape of the runway fast enough to make the control input corrections quickly. Look down the runway....look dooowwnnnnn the runway. See the entire runway as one entity/shape and be aware of what it is doing.

2. Unconsciously adding left aileron while pulling back on the yoke. I felt like I was pulling straight back, but I wasn't, and that caused me to frequently drift left.

3. Not being able to recognize the difference in sight picture between needing to steer left or right (rudder) or drift left or right (aileron). Yes, you use the rudder to keep you aligned with the runway, but your lizard brain (or at least mine) has a hard time, especially if you've driven a million miles or more in road vehicles, NOT using the yoke for that. You ned to keep the yoke and rudder inputs focused in their unique and separate jobs, although they obviously affect each other. This issue is compounded by all the efforts we make to keep in coordinated flight in the vast majority of other portions of flight.

4. As others have said, the wind will change as you get closer to the ground, around buildings, surrounding hills, etc. Don't assume that because your approach looks and feels right that the plane will/should fly itself to the ground. It won't. Watch the runway shape, do what you have to do to keep the plane on the centerline, and don't worry about whether or not it's what you EXPECTED to have to do. The wind doesn't care what you expect.

5. As you get slower, you will need MORE control input, not less. One of my biggest mistakes was reducing aileron input once the upwind main touched. That's when you want to dial in more...once that wheel touches, keep dialing in more aileron to really keep that wheel planted and control the descent of the other main, sort of a lateral version of controlling the nosewheel's descent as you hold it off. In crosswind, your aileron should be full in to the wind around the time all wheels are on the ground...maybe before, depending upon the strength.

6. Practice and use slips frequently. Make adjustments during the slip, even if you don't need to, to get an increasing feel for exactly how the plane reacts to separate rudder and aileron inputs in that attitude. That really helped me a lot.

These are ALL things I'm still wrestling with, and I'm always looking for more help, thoughts, and advice myself. Not a CFI... just another relatively low time pilot struggling along beside you.

 

[MacFly]

I base the amount and direction of aileron on the amount and direction the nose is pointing in the crab on approach. Then whatever rudder is necessary to keep the nose pointed down the runway.

 

[Skip Miller]

.... You'll be taught to slap and to crab. Both are good.

Depends on the execution. The last time my girlfriend slapped me I got very, very crabby. Not a good scene!

-Skip

 

[flyingron]

You use the rudder to keep the nose pointed at the far end of the runway, you use whatever aileron is necessary to keep the centerline between the mains. Don't worry the details of the wind, use the control inputs it takes to keep the wheels aligned with the runway and right down the centerline.

Yep, one good exercise is to fly an approach to a fairly long runway. Round out at about ten feet or so and hold it there. Now use the ailerons to keep you over the centerline and the rudder to hold the nose parallel to the runway as you fly the length of the runway. Do this in a few different wind conditions and you'll get the feel for it pretty well.

 

[MuseChaser]

Yep, one good exercise is to fly an approach to a fairly long runway. Round out at about ten feet or so and hold it there. Now use the ailerons to keep you over the centerline and the rudder to hold the nose parallel to the runway as you fly the length of the runway. Do this in a few different wind conditions and you'll get the feel for it pretty well.

To continue that tip, given a runway of sufficient size, practice drifting from one side of the centerline to the other while remaining aligned with the runway. Have a CFI on board unless the runway is really wide, maybe.That's another drill that helped me a lot.

 

[Lindberg]

You can't look at the windsock and know exactly how much correction you need. Well, maybe someone can, but not mere mortals. So just do what you have to do:

Rudder keeps the nose pointed down the runway, aileron keeps you in the center. Just do what ya gotta do to keep the airplane going where it should.

I find this to be so much easier when NOT using the crab & kick method. That forces this dumb "transition in the round-out and flare." Just don't do that. If you slip for crosswind correction and keep the plane lined up all the way down final, you just do what you need to do to stay aligned and on centerline.

 

[MuseChaser]

You can't look at the windsock and know exactly how much correction you need. Well, maybe someone can, but not mere mortals. So just do what you have to do:



I find this to be so much easier when NOT using the crab & kick method. That forces this dumb "transition in the round-out and flare." Just don't do that. If you slip for crosswind correction and keep the plane lined up all the way down final, you just do what you need to do to stay aligned and on centerline.

There's validity to both approaches (pun intended). At our airport, where there are two distinct locations on one runway where you can absolutely count on the wind to shift during the round-out and flare, I find it more unnerving if I've been slipping in aligned on final, since that alignment's going to get messed up anyway by the shift. It's easier for me to crab in, then align and correct once I'm down in the winds just above the runway. Both techniques should be practiced and available in your bag-o-tricks.

 

[chemgeek]

You can gain general knowledge about wind direction from local or area ATIS/AWOS. When you are lined up on final, the wind direction should be obvious. (You won't need the wind sock.) The ground track will tell you all you need to know: if you are aligned and pointed at the runway you will drift downwind in a crosswind.

From there the basic technique is to crab to maintain alignment with the runway, then transition to a slip (wing down into the wind to control drift, opposite rudder to maintain nose alignment with the runway) then flare and land. The upwind main should touch down first naturally.

Learning how to react to changes in drift and yaw with aileron and rudder takes practice, and your instructor may be able to provide some slipping exercises to help you ingrain the right responses.

 

[edo2000]

You can't look at the windsock and know exactly how much correction you need. Well, maybe someone can, but not mere mortals. So just do what you have to do:



I find this to be so much easier when NOT using the crab & kick method. That forces this dumb "transition in the round-out and flare." Just don't do that. If you slip for crosswind correction and keep the plane lined up all the way down final, you just do what you need to do to stay aligned and on centerline.

I agree with @Lindberg , as a beginner, there is too much to do at the last minute if you crab down final and switch to a slip in the flare. Until you are more comfortable, just keep the aircraft parallel with the runway using rudder, and keep it over the runway by lowering the upwind wing. Fly a nice long finals this way and keep the same correction through the flare and touchdown.

As you become more experienced, you will tend to crab until closer to touchdown to keep your wings level and make your passengers (and yourself) more comfortable, not sliding off your seats...

 

[chemgeek]

You can't look at the windsock and know exactly how much correction you need. Well, maybe someone can, but not mere mortals. So just do what you have to do:



I find this to be so much easier when NOT using the crab & kick method. That forces this dumb "transition in the round-out and flare." Just don't do that. If you slip for crosswind correction and keep the plane lined up all the way down final, you just do what you need to do to stay aligned and on centerline.

Ultimately, EVERYONE uses the slip method to land in a crosswind. (OK, maybe not in an Ercoupe.) The only distinction between approaches is when you make the transition from crab to slip. There is no "right" way.

Personally, I don't transition to a slip until round out, but I just don't like holding a bodacious amount of rudder early in final approach, especially at my home airport where strong westerly crosswinds are a seemingly permanent feature. But any way you can get down safely in a stiff crosswind is a win.

 

[dmspilot]

Before you ask, yes I have asked my CFI but I want to get some more feedback here as well.

I have hit the dreaded and absolutely infuriating typical learning plateau everyone seems to hint out during flight training (I'm ~20 hours including a dual XC). My main problem is consistency on crosswind landings. Most of them are reasonable but some are poor or at least not passing. It mainly has to do with me pushing the aileron in the wrong direction as I try to "feel" the wind when I transition to the round-out and flare.

After a lot of postmortem analysis, I realize that this mainly has to do with my confusion on where the wind is coming from. Yesterday, for instance, I looked at the wind sock before I took off, applied the correct aileron on takeoff and subsequently didn't apply any on landing (I forgot) or applied it in the wrong direction because the wind was now coming from the opposite side.

Does everyone inspect the wind sock on final to figure this out? What if you can't see/read the wind sock for whatever reason?

I have seen this mistake many times. Crosswind correction isn't a "set it and forget it" type of thing. The wind could increase, decrease, or change direction at any time. Thus crosswind correction needs to be constantly adjusted as needed all the way through the flare and touchdown. Use the rudder to keep the airplane's longitudinal axis parallel to the centerline and bank to stop any drift. The windsock gives you a baseline to watch out for but that's it.

 

[Lindberg]

The wind [will] increase, decrease, or change direction at any time. Thus crosswind correction needs to be constantly adjusted as needed all the way through the flare and touchdown.

FTFY. And another knock on the crab method.

 

[brcase]

If it is blowing like snot from one side, then, yea, the wind sock is helpful to plan. Otherwise, pretty much ignore it. The wind at the touchdown point is going to be different than the wind at the wind sock - it curls around trees, buildings, whatever.

Rudder keeps the nose pointed down the runway, aileron keeps you in the center. Just do what ya gotta do to keep the airplane going where it should.

Exactly this, once you start the round out the only thing you should be looking at is the end of the runway and the nose of the airplane. In video recently posted here the instructor says use the Rudder to keep your Nose. The Airplanes Nose and the far end of the run way in a straight line. Use the ailerons to drift he airplane left or right to keep the center line between the wheels of the airplane (under your butt). If you are at all left of the center line when you touch the right wheel should touch first because you have the right wing down to drift (slip) the airplane back to the center line. and visa versa if you re right of the center line. Notice I haven't mentioned the wind it all, as all the wind does is explain why you need to put the control input in, not tell you when to.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...tailwheels-and-crosswind.128545/#post-2984796
Good video, the cross wind technique is the same for Tri-cycle gear airplanes.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Why wouldn't a pilot use all the resources at his disposal? Many times I would approach an airport and see that the windsock was indicating something entirely different from what I had at 1000 feet. That told me to expect wind shear somewhere on the descent. If I had what I knew to be a 20kt wind aloft and the sock said it was 5kt, I could expect turbulence and a loss of airspeed at some point. If the sock indicated an opposite direction from the wind aloft, my approach path would need early modification or I might end up too high and fast. These conditions are common early in the day when the nocturnal inversion is still being felt.

 

[chemgeek]

FTFY. And another knock on the crab method.

Or , you can conclude that you aren't learning much while uncomfortably slipping down final, because the inputs change constantly, and the only time you really need to get it nailed is when you are flaring to land.

With less experience, it is probably better to set up the slip a little earlier down final, and with more experience it is possible to delay the transition until just before landing. Over the numbers, pretty much everybody does the same thing: watch and correct to maintain track and neutralize drift. For newbies this all breaks down when you then try to add pitch management to the equation...

 

[bflynn]

Why wouldn't a pilot use all the resources at his disposal?

Using the windsock to get an idea is fine, but once your on final, if you look at it, it will mean your eyes are not on the runway. From short final to rollout, you need to be focused on maintaining position and alignment using roll and yaw.

 

[PaulS]

You use the rudder to keep the nose pointed at the far end of the runway, you use whatever aileron is necessary to keep the centerline between the mains. Don't worry the details of the wind, use the control inputs it takes to keep the wheels aligned with the runway and right down the centerline.

Yep, one good exercise is to fly an approach to a fairly long runway. Round out at about ten feet or so and hold it there. Now use the ailerons to keep you over the centerline and the rudder to hold the nose parallel to the runway as you fly the length of the runway. Do this in a few different wind conditions and you'll get the feel for it pretty well.

To continue that tip, given a runway of sufficient size, practice drifting from one side of the centerline to the other while remaining aligned with the runway. Have a CFI on board unless the runway is really wide, maybe.That's another drill that helped me a lot.

Pretty much all the posts in this thread are spot on IMHO. Crosswind correction on landing really becomes automatic if you don't think about it too much. The problem with trying to plan it out to the detail level is the wind is always changing, at least around here.

What I do is listen to the weather, I do a rough crosswind calc in my head. Wind 30 degrees off the nose means that the crosswind is half of the wind. 45 degrees means the crosswind is 0.7 of the total wind, at 60 degrees the crosswind is 0.9 (0.866 for the pedantic people )of the total wind. If this number exceeds my personal mins, I find another runway to land.

If I know there is a strong crosswind, I will fly a final that gives me a little longer to get the feel for the correction needed. I shoot for a stabilized approach, this doesn't mean the airplane isn't bouncing around trying to do its own thing, I just make sure I am on a proper glide path, aligned with the runway, at the proper speed. I don't carry any extra speed except for a gust factor, if gusts are above 10 knot delta. I find that if I carry extra speed, I sit forever in the flare, not a big deal, but much more work as the wind ( which is never consistent) tries to move me off the centerline.

So I set up a crab on final, that keeps me on center line. This crab usually decreases as I get lower because the wind speed decreases, usually. Depending on my mood I might transition to a slip at 100 feet agl, or I might do it in the flair. When I was learning, I would be in the slip by about 50 feet agl just so I could make sure my brain was in slip mode, not crab mode.

Now transitioning to the slip makes it sound more calculated than it actually is, so don't think about it just do it because it is simple. To go to the slip, just align the airplane to the runway centerline using the rudder, and keep it there so that the airplane nose to tail is parallel to the centerline. Hopefully you are aligned to the centerline on your approach. Align the airplane, then watch what happens, if the plane moves left due to the wind, counter with right aileron. When you add aileron the nose will start moving right, don't let it, you'll need more left rudder, keep the plane, nose to tail, parallel to the runway. Gently "slip" the plane so it is back over the centerline.

Now here is the rub, wind isn't consistent, in fact somedays, it's direction is variable. What works one second, doesn't work the next. Maybe a gust hits, and weather vanes the airplane, you need to counter that with rudder keep the plane parallel to the centerline, meanwhile the same gust is moving you off the centerline, you need more aileron which in turn requires a rudder adjustment. The next gust hits from the other side so you adjust again.

But it's not an issue if you just stick to keeping the airplane aligned to the runway and over the centerline. Sometimes your feet will be dancing on the rudder and the yoke moving to keep over the centerline. That's just the way it is. Once you accept that, your crosswind landings will be good.

Keep correcting through the flare, and keep the correction in after you land, I go full aileron into the wind after touchdown. Don't forget to steer with your feet on the ground.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

While the windsock is helpful, to me it’s far more obvious which way the wind is blowing from by the direction of the crab I’m flying on final.

Nose pointed right? Wind’s off my right. Nose pointed left? Wind’s off my left. The more you’re crabbing, the stronger the wind.

I feel like there is often too much thought, and therefore over controlling, given to crosswind landings. Hold the crab until you’re over the numbers. Then kick the nose straight with rudder and use opposite aileron to stop the plane from drifting off centerline. Rudder points the nose, aileron stops the drift.

If you think about it this way, the upwind wheel will naturally touch down first instead of trying to force it down the “right way.”

I always like to slip it, so that I don't have any timing issues with "kicking it straight".

 

[Trogdor]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think the bottom line here is I am way overthinking it instead of just doing it!

If I'm veering to the right of center, left rudder, right aileron to balance.

If I'm veering to the left of center right rudder, left aileron to balance.

Keep on centerline, flare slightly, and let gravity do the rest.

Right?

 

[PaulS]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think the bottom line here is I am way overthinking it instead of just doing it!

If I'm veering to the right of center, left rudder, right aileron to balance.

If I'm veering to the left of center right rudder, left aileron to balance.

Keep on centerline, flare slightly, and let gravity do the rest.

Right?

Nope I think you have that backward.

(Edit: I'm not sure what "veer" means, for the below I took it as "veering to the right" airplane is moving the right of the centerline. )

While in the air, just keep the nose and tail aligned parallel to the runway centerline with the rudder (obviously you can't see the tail, but you should be able to tell when the airplane is angled to the runway, keep it aligned), then use the aileron to slide the airplane so it's over the centerline. If the nose goes out of alignment with the runway, use the rudder to fix it. That way you don't worry about thinking left with right or right with left, just move the appropriate control, rudder to keep the airplane pointed straight down the runway, while the aileron to keep the airplane OVER the centerline, you need to understand this on the ground or it won't come in the air.

When you have landed, use the rudder to keep the airplane on the centerline, turn the ailerons fully into the wind. (Wind from the left, aileron to the left. Wind from the right, aileron to the right).

So for your example in the post above, you don't "veer", you are looking down the runway and the runway starts moving left in the windscreen (airplane moving right), so you turn the yoke to the left, while using the rudder to keep the longitudinal axis (line going from nose to tail) parallel with the runway. Add enough aileron so that the airplane moves back in line with the centerline of the runway. It's usually a constant adjustment, nice and smooth, enough to fix the issue.


If the runway is moving right, (airplane is moving left), then you turn the yoke to the right, again keeping the airplane parallel to the runway, and slide back over the centerline. Nice easy movements, keeping the airplane parallel, on centerline, on glide path, at proper speed.

It's a lot, but you'll get it. Just make sure you understand each step.

I think this is why you are having trouble with crosswinds, it would be worth discussing this with your instructor on the ground, using a model airplane so he can show you the relative motions, once you get it it will be easy, but it's a little unnatural until you learn it.

PS, I'm not an instructor, but I did have trouble with cross wind landings when I was at your stage.

Edit: Remember, generally, while in the air, steer with the ailerons, on the ground steer with the rudder.

 

[midwestpa24]

Yep, one good exercise is to fly an approach to a fairly long runway. Round out at about ten feet or so and hold it there. Now use the ailerons to keep you over the centerline and the rudder to hold the nose parallel to the runway as you fly the length of the runway. Do this in a few different wind conditions and you'll get the feel for it pretty well.

To continue that tip, given a runway of sufficient size, practice drifting from one side of the centerline to the other while remaining aligned with the runway. Have a CFI on board unless the runway is really wide, maybe.That's another drill that helped me a lot.

I use those drills often when instructing. The first key is just flying down the runway with no correction, just crabbing or turning into the wind so the airplane is tracking down the runway.

I explain that obviously we don't want to land this way, the wheels will touch down sideways. So we use the rudder to make the nose and the wheels point straight down the runway.

Great fixed that problem! But wait! Now the airplane wants to drift towards the edge of the runway! Now what?! We gently use the ailerons to bank the airplane into the wind, while using the rudder to keep the nose and wheels aligned with the runway. Using that bank, the airplane can now maneuver left and right of the centerline while the nose stays glued to the end of the runway.

I'll first demonstrate it, then have my student make several practice runs without touching down. Its important to understand what the rudder is doing, and what the ailerons are doing. Not just rote learning, left wind, left aileron. Once they get the hang of it, then I'll let them touch down. I've had pre solo students successfully and easily land in a 20kt-90 degree crosswind in the Warrior.

I find it even more educational in a taildragger, especially a tandem seat one. Then you are on the aircraft's centerline, and you can more easily keep the upwind wheel on the ground with the others in the air, while running up and down the runway. Honestly, that's when I really learned crosswinds.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Using the windsock to get an idea is fine, but once your on final, if you look at it, it will mean your eyes are not on the runway. From short final to rollout, you need to be focused on maintaining position and alignment using roll and yaw.

Ah. The fatal one-second glance at the sock on short final. Got it.

I was an instructor for six years.

 

[midwestpa24]

Actually Martin and Doug's video covers crosswind well! Granted I may or may not have had some time with Doug over the years.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...tailwheels-and-crosswind.128545/#post-2985348

 

[Daleandee]

As has been noted by others; with a bit of practice you will learn to give the airplane what it takes to make it go straight. My instructor insisted that I learn to make the airplane do what I wanted it to do. Not in a ham-fisted way but at times you do have to be rather quick & firm with the controls.

One of the things with my particular plane is an engine that turns opposite from most all general aviation airplanes. I've often been asked if it's confusing to figure out which rudder to use. Of course not ... just give the plane what it needs to keep straight.

 

[Sinistar]

For the OP: Pick a light wind day first and go practice upwind wheel landings. Make every landing on the upwind wheel first. I found myself visualizing on this perfect landing and all these techniques and it just seemed like the long way to making it all click. So I started purposely practicing upwind wheel landings. I think having the focus on that single event instead of the entire process helped me more than anything. If nothing else it gives confidence having done many before in varying wind conditions. I am still 3x better at pilot side vs co-pilot side. Another thing I found a bit easier was when focusing on a upwind wheel landing I am a bit more accurate at left to right placement. In a really strong crosswind I prefer to land more to the upwind side as well. Not at the edge but a bit off center in case a nasty gust hits. You could also be coming in too slow, too much flaps, etc.

Wind sucks

 

[chemgeek]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think the bottom line here is I am way overthinking it instead of just doing it!

If I'm veering to the right of center, left rudder, right aileron to balance.

If I'm veering to the left of center right rudder, left aileron to balance.

Keep on centerline, flare slightly, and let gravity do the rest.

Right?

Backwards. Bank in the direction you need to go to correct drift. Left wing down goes left. Right wing down goes right. Rudder to keep your nose aligned parallel to the runway. You are basically slipping left or right as needed.

Roll to move the plane left or right. Rudder to point the nose straight.

Your instructor can probably have you do this or demonstrate for you a few feet above the runway so you can clearly see what the control inputs do to correct drift and nose alignment. It will become quite natural after a while, and it is quite fun.

 

[midwestpa24]

I've often been asked if it's confusing to figure out which rudder to use. Of course not ... just give the plane what it needs to keep straight.

Exactly! I don't try to think of control inputs as being pre-planned. Use what is needed to make the airplane do what you want it to.

 

[Lindberg]

Or , you can conclude that you aren't learning much while uncomfortably slipping down final, because the inputs change constantly, and the only time you really need to get it nailed is when you are flaring to land.

With less experience, it is probably better to set up the slip a little earlier down final, and with more experience it is possible to delay the transition until just before landing. Over the numbers, pretty much everybody does the same thing: watch and correct to maintain track and neutralize drift. For newbies this all breaks down when you then try to add pitch management to the equation...

The crab method is supposedly performed in coordinated flight. So changes to crab angle would require coordinated turns to a new heading. Gusty or changing crosswinds or obstructions would require lots of changes. And then there's the "transition," which is supposed to be performed smoothly, while doing three other things already, and with little time to get it wrong and adjust. Which maybe is why students don't do them well. I say bollocks to all that. Slipping down final is elegant and fluid. You have the same inputs from final through the flare and touchdown, just a little more and a little less to keep you lined up. JMHO, YMMV, consult a CFI.

 

[Salty]

When a gust of wind hits your car, you don't look for a windsock to decide what to do, you turn into the wind instinctively. Plane is no different. When you're drifting left, turn right with ailerons. When nose is pointing too much to the left, point it to the right with the rudder. It's that simple.

 

[midwestpa24]

The crab method is supposedly performed in coordinated flight. So changes to crab angle would require coordinated turns to a new heading. Gusty or changing crosswinds or obstructions would require lots of changes. And then there's the "transition," which is supposed to be performed smoothly, while doing three other things already, and with little time to get it wrong and adjust. Which maybe is why students don't do them well. I say bollocks to all that. Slipping down final is elegant and fluid. You have the same inputs from final through the flare and touchdown, just a little more and a little less to keep you lined up. JMHO, YMMV, consult a CFI.

Here is my opinion on the crab/kick method of crosswind landing, so take it for what its worth. It hides poor understanding and use of controls in a crosswind. I'm not saying it can't be done and done well, but I've seen a lot of people use it as a crutch. Many will use the rudder to align with the runway at the last second before they touch down, but not use aileron or continue "flying" the airplane once the wheels touch. They will get blown off centerline every time, but accept the landing as long they don't end up in the grass. It works in a nose gear airplane on a wide enough runway in less than severe cross-winds. It's ugly, but it works. Where it will bite a pilot is in higher crosswinds, on a narrower runway, or really comes out when doing transition into a taildragger. That's where I teach my students its not just touching down on the centerline, but staying on the centerline as you roll out.

I prefer the slip on final method because you have to use the proper crosswind controls the whole way down. Plus in a strong crosswind, you find out early whether or not you have enough control before you get to the flare.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Here is my opinion on the crab/kick method of crosswind landing, so take it for what its worth. It hides poor understanding and use of controls in a crosswind. I'm not saying it can't be done and done well, but I've seen a lot of people use it as a crutch. Many will use the rudder to align with the runway at the last second before they touch down, but not use aileron or continue "flying" the airplane once the wheels touch. They will get blown off centerline every time, but accept the landing as long they don't end up in the grass. It works in a nose gear airplane on a wide enough runway in less than severe cross-winds. It's ugly, but it works. Where it will bite a pilot is in higher crosswinds, on a narrower runway, or really comes out when doing transition into a taildragger. That's where I teach my students its not just touching down on the centerline, but staying on the centerline as you roll out.

I prefer the slip on final method because you have to use the proper crosswind controls the whole way down. Plus in a strong crosswind, you find out early whether or not you have enough control before you get to the flare.

Landing in a crosswind with no aileron is insane. What happens to bank when you push rudder? The outside wing lifts due to the crosswind against the wings in the skid. On the landing, no aileron and just kicking the nose straight presents the risk of the upwind wing rising and driving the downwind wing into the runway. That never ends well, whether it's a trike or a taildragger.

People should learn to fly the airplane using ALL the controls.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Here's what happens in a rather mild crosswind when there is no aileron input whatever: