Fighter Pilot looking for advice on the GA world

Afterburner Blowout

Afterburner Blowout

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Afterburner Blowout
Hi Everyone!

I'm currently flying fighters in the Air Force and hoping to buy an airplane to do a little fun flying on the weekends with my family. I'm excited about the idea, but I've been out of the GA flying game for a while and I was never in the game as far as airplane ownership is concerned. I've never dealt with any of my own maintenance costs or inspections. I'm looking for any advice you'd give a novice looking to buy in the 75-125k price range. I know that I'll need to have a thorough pre-buy inspection and deal with insurance/tie-down/annual inspection costs, but are there any surprise costs you wish you knew about before buying..?

I earned my PPL in a rental Archer before joining the Air Force, but that's the only GA I've done. I loved the Piper, so I'd like to get a Warrior/Cherokee/Archer but I'm open to suggestions since you all have significantly more experience than me.

Thank you!

**If this is posted in the wrong area, I'd love a point out to the correct area**
 
Being an owner is a lot different than renting or flying for the military. There are many aspects to consider. How many in your family? How many are you going to fly with? How far are you planning to go and how fast or how slow is acceptable?
Do you need 2, 4, or 6 seats? How often will you actually fill them? Will a 2+2 work or do you want some real room with a 4 or 6 seater?

The best value in aviation is a well maintained used airplane with 600-900 hours since major overhaul. If you keep it for 5-10 years you can sell it with good value to the next buyer and that means good resale value for you. Keep it maintained and make intelligent upgrades to make it a better airplane for you, and the next buyer. Fixed gear and fixed prop is less extensive to maintain than CS prop and retractable landing gear, but not as fast or and may burn more fuel.

The next thing to consider is where you will fly it. Grass strips? short fields? Or only long paved runways? While tail draggers are better on grass and short fields, they are significantly less forgiving in cross winds and pilot proficiency. There are also some tri gear aircraft that are good on short fields too. The Navion is one that is good at everything except how much fuel it burns.

This is just a start. It is a whole big world out there.
 
Coming from fighters, you may find a Cherokee a bit more, ah, sedate than you remember.

My BIL flew F-106's, now flies an RV-8. Of course that only works if "family" means just you and your wife.
 
Goto Oshkosh and/or Sun-n-fun, start trying them on so to speak.

Goto the airport of your choice and start networking. That’ll help ya with hangar, maintenance and local flying bud stuff. Check to see if there’s a local EAA chapter or similar to aid in that.

Get all the military competency ratings you can.

Charge your phone and google barnstormers….

I kinda went your route, soloed in high school… didn’t fly again until Navy flight school. Didn’t fly GA again until 10 years into the airlines. This is more dangerous than the boat at night! I recommend finding a mentor.

Welcome aboard!

Tools
 
Kind of luck of the draw too, do a good prebuy and hope for the best. Spend what you want to on your airplane, plan 10k per year for your first and second year maintenance, plus parking and insurance. You’ll either get a little better (less $$) or have to buy a new engine (50-60k).
 
Define your mission first. That will narrow the choices a bit. Then see what you can do to fly a few of them - rentals, fly with buddies, etc. Research your options, and don’t forget to look into ADs. Some planes have an expensive AD or two, some recurring, which you should factor in.

Frankly, though, if you only intend occasional weekend flights, renting could be a much better option than owning.

Come back and tell us more about how you intend to use the plane and we can offer better advice.
 
I bought my first airplane when I was a major and had been flying nothing but fighters for the previous 17 years. Good advice above, define the mission first then figure out the airplane.

PM me if you want to talk differences or shoot the proverbial watch.
 
All good advice above. As an added bonus, you may consider getting some dual in a variety of single engine land aircraft before you make a decision.
Also the idea of dual is to remember what your feet are for. Your insurance company will appreciate that. Depending on what you purchase, you may need a civilian High Performance endorsement and a Tail Wheel endorsement. Good things to knock out while getting used to GA Flying.

Holding a current Form 8 will suffice for your "Flight Review" and holding a current military aviation medical certification will suffice for your civil medical certification requirements. I would spend some time studying the airspace rules. Always flying under positive control in the military, you might need a refresher on Class B, C, D, E, G airspace.
 
Former A-10 guy here. Did my Private in Grumman Tiger before UPT. Much more fun plane to fly than a Cherokee. Faster, more responsive, and sliding canopy. :D

As others have said, define your mission. You don't send an F-22 to do CAS. :) Short trips? Longer trips? How many people? How much luggage?

I ended up buying a Mooney. I wanted something that was fast, efficient and good for longer trips. I find it is not a plane I will just pull out and go fly for an hour. It wants to be working. Either cruising cross country in the teens or pounding out some approaches

It is fine for the $100 hamburger runs, but tend to do them to slight farther locations.

I did look seriously at Tigers, but at the time, they were almost as much as the Mooney (although insurance would be cheaper due to fixed gear) and all for sale had pretty much the original panel and avionics. Not even a Garmin 430.

As others said, owning a different venue. Unless you are flying at least 100 hours a year, you are probably better off renting. The only downside to renting is if you want to take longer trips as most want a minimum number of hours per day.
 
Velocity173 said:
@hindsight2020 has a nice Arrow he could sell ya. Only needs some minor engine work. ;)
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LOL too late. That thing is sold and out of my hands alhamdulilláh. ;)

--brk brk--

OP, looks like the boilerplates have already been offered. You have a solid clip of people with decades-plus ownership experiences offering ya salient advice; you're in good hands. I'm no longer engaging publicly on the topic, I wish ya good luck and welcome to POA!
 
Setting aside the family flying for just a moment ... a fighter pilot may want something that goes upside down:

 
legally you mean....*whistles past the graveyard* :fingerwag:
 
Pinecone said:
Former A-10 guy here. Did my Private in Grumman Tiger before UPT. Much more fun plane to fly than a Cherokee. Faster, more responsive, and sliding canopy. :D

As others have said, define your mission. You don't send an F-22 to do CAS. :) Short trips? Longer trips? How many people? How much luggage?

I ended up buying a Mooney. I wanted something that was fast, efficient and good for longer trips. I find it is not a plane I will just pull out and go fly for an hour. It wants to be working. Either cruising cross country in the teens or pounding out some approaches

It is fine for the $100 hamburger runs, but tend to do them to slight farther locations.

I did look seriously at Tigers, but at the time, they were almost as much as the Mooney (although insurance would be cheaper due to fixed gear) and all for sale had pretty much the original panel and avionics. Not even a Garmin 430.

As others said, owning a different venue. Unless you are flying at least 100 hours a year, you are probably better off renting. The only downside to renting is if you want to take longer trips as most want a minimum number of hours per day.
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Just a quick note: I disagree that for under 100 hrs per year you are better off renting. While from a cost only standpoint that is technically true, renting requires scheduled access to an airplane that earns its living renting to anyone everyday. Owning your own plane means unlimited access anytime without pre-scheduling your flying time. It also means you are the only one using it, so it will never be unavailable without your knowledge. Need to take the bird out-of town for a week or two? No problem!
Unlimited access and limited abusive use are two things in favor of owning that rental airplanes can't match.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
Just a quick note: I disagree that for under 100 hrs per year you are better off renting. While from a cost only standpoint that is technically true, renting requires scheduled access to an airplane that earns its living renting to anyone everyday. Owning your own plane means unlimited access anytime without pre-scheduling your flying time. It also means you are the only one using it, so it will never be unavailable without your knowledge. Need to take the bird out-of town for a week or two? No problem!
Unlimited access and limited abusive use are two things in favor of owning that rental airplanes can't match.
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Yes, and those things are why I own a plane. Fly whenever I like, wife and I can take a trip whenever the mood strikes us, decide to fly somewhere for lunch just because it's a pretty day, etc. I'm retired and want to take advantage of the freedom that affords.

BUT,.... It all goes back to mission. If you need (or want) to accomodate spontaneity, by all means own. If you're only flying occasionally and you can plan in advance, renting might be a better option.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution.
 
Pinecone said:
As others said, owning a different venue. Unless you are flying at least 100 hours a year, you are probably better off renting. The only downside to renting is if you want to take longer trips as most want a minimum number of hours per day.
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Or find a good club. It will give you insights into costs and missions and airplanes. The cost will likely be much less than renting and none of the ones I've been a member of have had a minimum hours to be flown to keep it overnight or for a few days on the road. Do that for a couple years while you search and you will come away much more educated.
 
Dana said:
Coming from fighters, you may find a Cherokee a bit more, ah, sedate than you remember.

My BIL flew F-106's, now flies an RV-8. Of course that only works if "family" means just you and your wife.
Click to expand...
This right here. Coming from fighters, you’ll be bored out of your mind in a 172 or Cherokee. If your usual mission is for just 1-2 seats, find an RV-8. I’m a civilian airline guy, never got to fly any cool fighter stuff, but my RV-8 still makes me giggle after 17 years and almost 2200 hours…
 
Tools said: Go to the airport of your choice and start networking. That’ll help ya with hangar, maintenance and local flying bud stuff. Check to see if there’s a local EAA chapter or similar to aid in that.
With this in mind.

Fractional ownership in a RV-10?
Probably 3 owners for your budget.
Saving a ton on maintenance and parts. Panel likely newer too.
 
Daleandee said:
Setting aside the family flying for just a moment ... a fighter pilot may want something that goes upside down:

Click to expand...
Nah. We get plenty of that at work. I haven’t flown fighters in over three years and the novelty of going upside down is ALMOST back to interesting. It’s just apples and oranges.
 
I'll second (third?) The suggestion to join a club, preferably one that is well organized and has meetings, and a budget. I learned a LOT in a couple years of club membership. I got familiar with the costs involved, met the mechanics at my field, and made several friends. I also learned a lot about what to look for when I did finally buy a plane. What I needed and didn't, and what I wanted. I say it every time; jumping into ownership is very much like adding another rating. Being in a good club is the ground school.

Welcome to POA!
 
Save at least $10k for unexpected repairs in the first year, or maybe a must have avionics upgrade.

I would keep the plane at an airport with a mechanic on the field, so you don’t have to try tracking down one if you have a problem.

Rough guess is insurance will run 2% of the hull.

Buy something that is actively flying and hangared, less likely to have any surprises.

Corrosion is the primary cause of death of a small airplane, when you request a mechanic, focus on checking for it.

Ask to take you up for a test flight, check all avionics and lights work, is the plane stable when you take your hands off the controls? Then make an offer. If the plane can’t be flown for whatever reason, look for another plane.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Piper?.....nah, you'll need a Boo-nan-za. ;)View attachment 122683
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Yeah, you need a Bonanza!

I get a little sad when I hear people say "I trained in a Archer/Cessna/... and so that is what I think I want.
You probably learned to ride a bicycle with training wheels too. As an adult do you now want a bike with training wheels?
 
EvilEagle said:
Nah. We get plenty of that at work. I haven’t flown fighters in over three years and the novelty of going upside down is ALMOST back to interesting. It’s just apples and oranges.
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It's not just about going upside down, though it's nice to know you can when you want to. It's about the overall handling... if you were paid to drive a high end sports car, would you choose to buy a minivan for fun?

But the suggestion to join a flying club, or just rent, for awhile is a good one if you've been out of GA for some time. Fly a few different types, if possible make friends with some experimental owners, get a better sense of what the options and tradeoffs are.
 
JOhnH said:
I get a little sad when I hear people say "I trained in a Archer/Cessna/... and so that is what I think I want.
You probably learned to ride a bicycle with training wheels too. As an adult do you now want a bike with training wheels?
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I get a little sad when people run down "trainers". A Cherokee is a fine airplane and a great place to start your ownership journey if it fits the mission. Look at all the places @Chrisgoesflying went in his Warrior. Look what Josh Flowers has done with a 172. Like Chris, you might find later you want to go faster and carry more, so you upgrade.

Cost and ease of ownership will be better for a 172 or pa28 than anything else this side of experimental. I maintain a club membership in a 172 because it does things my "real airplane" isn't good at, like low & slow sightseeing and short grass strips.
 
Jim K said:
I get a little sad when people run down "trainers". A Cherokee is a fine airplane and a great place to start your ownership journey if it fits the mission. Look at all the places @Chrisgoesflying went in his Warrior. Look what Josh Flowers has done with a 172. Like Chris, you might find later you want to go faster and carry more, so you upgrade.

Cost and ease of ownership will be better for a 172 or pa28 than anything else this side of experimental. I maintain a club membership in a 172 because it does things my "real airplane" isn't good at, like low & slow sightseeing and short grass strips.
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I didn't mean to run down trainers (too much). I just don't think that the fact that you trained in a certain plane and that is all you know is a good reason to buy that plane. There are so many other options out there, why limit yourself?

Personally, I loved my old Cessna 172 with the 180 upgrade and the >1,000# UL. It was just too slow for the trips we wanted to take at a time when we had limited vacation time. I think it is more important to base their choice on what they want/need rather than what they are familiar with.
 
Acquisition cost is the cheapest part of ownership. Many of the entry-level Pipers have a wing spar AD; you’ll want to know if the individual aircraft you’re interested in is subject to it.

www.pilotsofamerica.com

PIPER Wing Spar AD - Final Ruling

its out... see attached. PDF available here to download https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/e7c6578b69cdce7d8625865e005b20fe/$FILE/2020-26-16.pdf
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com

Define your mission to understand an appropriate platform. Gentlemanly BFM is the RV space, cross-country with family of four is 182/Comanche/Cherokee Six territory.

Find your IA first; this may be the hardest part. Also, being an involved owner by doing your own oil changes and allowable maintenance helps with the operating costs.
 
jbDC9 said:
This right here. Coming from fighters, you’ll be bored out of your mind in a 172 or Cherokee.
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Not necessarily. I got a kick sharing little airplanes with little family members after I left the pointy-nosed world. I found getting meagerly paid to fly traffic planes interesting for several hundred hours, and it got me out of the house. We then bought into a 5 member partnership in an Arrow, and used it for some great family trips.

But, yeah, we eventually bought an RV-6A, and now we own an RV-S8, because, you know. :yesnod:

Half Fast said:
The OP seems to have vanished......
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Tough crowd! It's Thanksgiving weekend, give the OP time to process away the tryptophan.
 
Jim K said:
Look at all the places @Chrisgoesflying went in his Warrior.
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I didn’t have a Warrior, just a regular Cherokee 140 with the engine upgraded to 160 HP. And you are right, it’s a capable cross country machine as long as you set your expectations regarding speed and how much you can carry. We (my wife, our fairly large dog and I) flew that plane all over Canada and the US. We were based out of Saskatchewan in Canada and flew trips to Montana, Arkansas, Florida, Chicago and countless places between Winnipeg and Edmonton. Never did I think the plane was uncomfortable or incapable of the mission. The only reason we upgraded to a Comanche is to give us more room, especially if the family is growing in the future.
 
TCABM said:
Acquisition cost is the cheapest part of ownership. Many of the entry-level Pipers have a wing spar AD; you’ll want to know if the individual aircraft you’re interested in is subject to it.

www.pilotsofamerica.com

PIPER Wing Spar AD - Final Ruling

its out... see attached. PDF available here to download https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/e7c6578b69cdce7d8625865e005b20fe/$FILE/2020-26-16.pdf
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com

Define your mission to understand an appropriate platform. Gentlemanly BFM is the RV space, cross-country with family of four is 182/Comanche/Cherokee Six territory.

Find your IA first; this may be the hardest part. Also, being an involved owner by doing your own oil changes and allowable maintenance helps with the operating costs.
Click to expand...
Your mission can still be aerobatics with a PA28. :oops:

 
Dana said:
It's not just about going upside down, though it's nice to know you can when you want to. It's about the overall handling... if you were paid to drive a high end sports car, would you choose to buy a minivan for fun?

But the suggestion to join a flying club, or just rent, for awhile is a good one if you've been out of GA for some time. Fly a few different types, if possible make friends with some experimental owners, get a better sense of what the options and tradeoffs are.
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To each his own. I flew the Eagle for two decades and every aerobatic airplane I’ve flown in has been ho-hum apart from the Gamebird. I haven’t flown them all of course.

IMO, nothing in the GA world will touch what I used to fly so for me it was time to change gears. I love flying Super Cubs in the backcountry, taking a whole family somewhere in the Bonanza and yes I do enjoy flying warbirds too. There are lots of nice handling airplanes that aren’t aerobatic.
 
Half Fast said:
If you had a family to haul around, would you get a Miata?
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No, I got a Fiat Spider (which had a small back seat), I couldn't afford a Miata at the time.

But yeah, my wife had her practical car, too.
 
Thanks for all the inputs! It's definitely a step down performance-wise from the Eagle, but having something that I can just fly VFR from point A to B will be an awesome change of pace. I've definitely looked at Bonanza's and RV's, but it seems like a docile entry level plane is more in my wheelhouse.

I really like the idea of defining my mission to get a better idea of what I want. I want a safe airplane that I can fly once or twice a week for an hour at a time and occasionally take my wife. I think the furthest I'd want to go from my home field is about 200 miles away, so I don't think I'll need anything too fast or with retractable gear.

Again, thank you all for the advice. It's really helpful!
 
Afterburner Blowout said:
Thanks for all the inputs! It's definitely a step down performance-wise from the Eagle, but having something that I can just fly VFR from point A to B will be an awesome change of pace. I've definitely looked at Bonanza's and RV's, but it seems like a docile entry level plane is more in my wheelhouse.

I really like the idea of defining my mission to get a better idea of what I want. I want a safe airplane that I can fly once or twice a week for an hour at a time and occasionally take my wife. I think the furthest I'd want to go from my home field is about 200 miles away, so I don't think I'll need anything too fast or with retractable gear.

Again, thank you all for the advice. It's really helpful!
Click to expand...

Cessna 150? :rofl:
 
Afterburner Blowout said:
....so I don't think I'll need anything too fast or with retractable gear.
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Take a look at the Beech Musketeers and Sundowners. I have a B23 Musketeer that I'm quite happy with. Very well made planes, fly great, no onerous ADs, excellent type club for support. Good fit for your described mission, plus they're very roomy and will work fine for occasional longer trips if you're not in a hurry.
 
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