Fibbed to ATC. Got Caught. Was given number to call

M

Messedupbad

Guest
This evening I was on a XC flight and I was flying VFR with flight following. As I approached my destination (I won’t say where due to privacy concerns) I was given a hand off by ATC to approach control. This is where I messed up. I was juggling things so quick in a new airplane and got a little behind. I didn’t get the ATIS due to workload but when ATC asked if I had information Sierra, I just told them yes. The real mess up was when I requested to land on a closed runway, which I would’ve known had I actually listened to the ATIS. The controller called my bluff and asked a second time if I had information Sierra, at the time I thought maybe he had forgotten that he already asked me and I didn’t pick up on it, so I said again “affirmative”. He then asked “do you actually have Sierra, because it states that 3L is closed due to construction”. I tried to play it off and just said I had overlooked that part. When I landed on 3R (the active) he gave me taxi instructions followed by a number to call. I have yet to call it as I’ve read that I’m not obligated to, but I’m wondering what will happen if I just don’t call at all? I am currently a private pilot with just under 200 hours total flight time trying to build time toward an airline career. I can’t afford to get my license revoked. Advice is appreciated
Thank you
 
Call it. They’re usually very “educational” and actually trying to help. Unless you’re being a jerk in their eyes (like, by not calling) - then they’re less collaborative, I bet.

Also, file a NASA ASRS report. Look that up if you don’t know what it is and/or how it can help in your situation.
 
I would call, especially since you’re trying to fly as a career, you wouldn’t want something as dumb as this to come up later on and adversely affect you.

In the future, if ATC asks whether or not you have the ATIS and you’re juggling other things, just simply tell them no, but you’re working on it - there’s no reason to lie about it.
 
Tantalum said:
I'm not sure why you lied in the first place and said you had it. If you say "negative ATIS" they're usually polite and just give it to you.. at least a synopsis of the altimeter, winds, etc..

Aviation isn't kind to people who try to be a hero
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Hero my eye. He said the dog ate his homework, thrice, and got caught out to not even own a dog. Nothing heroic there.

Then cravenly not calling tower back "because he doesn't have to" -- and giving tower no ability to resolve it quietly instead of kicking it up to FAA? He deserves whatever is coming if you ask me. This error has been covered over several times out of hubris, not heroism.
 
Retitled: LED TO ATC”
You actually got what you deserved.

An old boss of mine was fond of saying: “no place for liars in he air…”. Do BETTER:
Don’t be “that guy”……you’ll get the investigation letter soon enough…without the waiver for good attitude, too.
 
Lot of bad things in your post. You weren’t competent to fly the plane you are flying and I suspect you did not get a proper preflight weather briefing either because the runway closure was probably due in the NOTAMs.
 
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I do not see this as a big deal whatsoever. I’m actually shocked they gave you a number for this.
 
Kritchlow said:
I do not see this as a big deal whatsoever.
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It may not have been but not calling won't make it go away. IMHO lying is a serious flaw in any human, repeating the lie is doubling down on stupid, and refusing to call and come clean about it puts it into the unforgivable and need for punishment category. Don't continue being a moron. File with ASRS, call the number, and take your beating. You earned it.
 
Daleandee said:
It may not have been but not calling won't make it go away. IMHO lying is a serious flaw in any human, repeating the lie is doubling down on stupid, and refusing to call and come clean about it puts it into the unforgivable and need for punishment category. Don't continue being a moron. File with ASRS, call the number, and take your beating. You earned it.
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I missed this very same thing tonight in the Airbus. I requested a closed runway after I reported the atis.
I simply missed it. Really, no big deal. Not even a little deal.
 
You're piling up problems.
Not being truthful on the atis is one thing.
Not calling just adds more to it.
File the NASA report.
Then call them back.

I bet if you would have called right away it would have been a chat with controller and or their supervisor and that was it. I thinking once about 60min goes by without you calling the number they gave you they will opt for pilot deviation. You should get a letter or call from FSDO in about 4...8weeks. For my deviation they wanted all pilot AND aircraft logs, met them at FSDO and they scoured through all of them. Hopefully your airplane was airworthy at the time.
 
Sinistar said:
You're piling up problems.
Not being truthful on the atis is one thing.
Not calling just adds more to it.
File the NASA report.
Then call them back.

I bet if you would have called right away it would have been a chat with controller and or their supervisor and that was it. I thinking once about 60min goes by without you calling the number they gave you they will opt for pilot deviation. You should get a letter or call from FSDO in about 4...8weeks. For my deviation they wanted all pilot AND aircraft logs, met them at FSDO and they scoured through all of them. Hopefully your airplane was airworthy at the time.
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Exactly what was the pilot deviation??? That he missed a notam on the atis ?
 
Not exactly sure what the deviation would fall under. He lied stating that he listened to it when in fact (his admission) he didn't even listen to part of it which probably would have given him and out. So that must be under some catch all unsafe operation of an aircraft. My understanding is that there is a requirement (responsibility) to have the up to date atis when arriving at a controlled airport. They will even help and read it to you if they have the time. Not sure of regulation or if only im AIM.
 
Sinistar said:
Not exactly sure what the deviation would fall under. He lied stating that he listened to it when in fact (his admission) he didn't even listen to part of it which probably would have given him and out. So that must be under some catch all unsafe operation of an aircraft. My understanding is that there is a requirement (responsibility) to have the up to date atis when arriving at a controlled airport. They will even help and read it to you if they have the time. Not sure of regulation or if only im AIM.
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The only possible thing I can think of is lack of pre flight planning. That said, that’s really not an ATC deviation.
Unfortunately, at larger airports at times we get as many as 10-15 pages of NOTAMS. There is no way to go through all of those to the point of memorization.
 
You’re getting flight following and it’s VFR. How much workload can there be? Most likely after the handoff, unless you were flying at 250 KIAS, there would have been plenty of time to get the ATIS. I would have guessed a pilot would say they have ATIS because of a trusty METAR reading on ForeFlite or because they departed when it was ATIS Romeo and surely nothing could have changed in an hour.

ATC probably just wanted to call your bluff over the phone so they can give you some advice that basically would help you be a better pilot. Not because they wanted to violate you.
 
Kritchlow said:
The only possible thing I can think of is lack of pre flight planning. That said, that’s really not an ATC deviation.
Unfortunately, at larger airports at times we get as many as 10-15 pages of NOTAMS. There is no way to go through all of those to the point of memorization.
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According to the post, it wasn't buried in 15 pages of NOTAM but in the 30 or so seconds of ATIS. I suspect the issue from the ATC end is a pilot who either (a) lied twice to them or (b) intentionally planed to land on a closed runway. People are funny; they don't seem to like that.

Can the FAA make out a careless/reckless case over it? Use it as the basis for a 709 challenging competence? Go to revocation due to "Fraudulent or intentionally false statement? Sounds pretty minor but lying, especially when there is no reason to, can strike some folks as something which, quoting the 2150.3, "demonstrate that the certificate holder does not possess the care, judgment, or responsibility to hold a certificate". Would they bother? Beats me.

Yeah, sounds unlikely but, as Martha Lunken might say, "ya never know what might get the FAA all riled up."

I have nothing to say about what our guest should do. But I suspect controllers don't hang around waiting for that call. They are typically made very soon after the request, even if it's just name rank and serial number and listening more than talking. By now, if anything is gonna happen, it's probably off the ATC desk and in its way to the FSDO.
 
What exactly should he put in a NASA report? That he lied three times, ignored best practices, and didn’t do basic due diligence to check notams, or should he lie again and say he “missed” the runway closure? I’m not seeing any benefit to anyone in filling out a NASA on this one.

Hiding from your mistakes is not heroic. This scenario shows a frightening pattern of such behavior. Do you want your loved ones to be flown by somebody who deals with what is essentially a nothing burger by going to such lengths to hide the actual mistake (the actual mistake is laziness, which was also never accepted and learned from)

the proper response is to think to yourself, “that was stupid, I should have gotten the atis or at least explained that I had not had time yet” and thought about out what to do differently to get it done next time.
 
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schmookeeg said:
Hero my eye. He said the dog ate his homework, thrice, and got caught out to not even own a dog. Nothing heroic there.

Then cravenly not calling tower back "because he doesn't have to" -- and giving tower no ability to resolve it quietly instead of kicking it up to FAA? He deserves whatever is coming if you ask me. This error has been covered over several times out of hubris, not heroism.
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Hero?? I didn't see anything about that here. But yeah, there's stuff here that just boils down to 'content of character.' The they called my bluff thang. I read somewhere they can't make me call. "...I tried to play it off and just said I had overlooked that part..." It's that he seems to think it's some kind of game thing. Saving face is more important than the truth. I'm pretty sure I don't want to ever be back in the cabin munchin' pretzels and sippin' a beer with this guy up there callin' the shots. Maybe he'll learn some things and realign his core thinking. I hope so.
 
Kritchlow said:
Exactly what was the pilot deviation??? That he missed a notam on the atis ?
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He never said he got 'brashered.' Just that they wanted him to call. A quote"pilot deviation"unquote, is about a loss of approved Separation. It's going to be someones fault. Pilot via 'pilot deviation' or controller via 'operational error.'
 
Salty said:
What exactly should he put in a NASA report? That he lied three times, ignored best practices, and didn’t do basic due diligence to check notams, or should he lie again and say he “missed” the runway closure? I’m not seeing any benefit to anyone in filling out a NASA on this one.

Hiding from your mistakes is not heroic. This scenario shows a frightening pattern of such behavior. Do you want your loved ones to be flown by somebody who deals with what is essentially a nothing burger by going to such lengths to hide the actual mistake (the actual mistake is laziness, which was also never accepted and learned from)

the proper response is to think to yourself, “that was stupid, I should have gotten the atis or at least explained that I had not had time yet” and thought about out what to do differently to get it done next time.
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Yup.
 
luvflyin said:
He never said he got 'brashered.' Just that they wanted him to call. A quote"pilot deviation"unquote, is about a loss of approved Separation. It's going to be someones fault. Pilot via 'pilot deviation' or controller via 'operational error.'
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Even assuming there was a deviation, a Brasher warning is not necessary as a precursor to certificate action. And it's not required in all cases.
 
Salty said:
What exactly should he put in a NASA report? That he lied three times, ignored best practices, and didn’t do basic due diligence to check notams, or should he lie again and say he “missed” the runway closure? I’m not seeing any benefit to anyone in filling out a NASA on this one.
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How not listening to ATIS can be the beginning of a chain of errors.
 
This one seemed a little less like a troll, so I bit. But its not out of the question. Which brings the question, why even allow guests to post?
 
iu
 
OP one simple question...Are your pants on fire? If so stop drop and roll.
 
TrueCourse said:
This one seemed a little less like a troll, so I bit. But its not out of the question. Which brings the question, why even allow guests to post?
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Hard to be anonymous when you've met around 300 people in person from the message board.
 
Can’t a registered member post anonymously?Why allow guests that aren’t members to post? Maybe no guest posts would limit the trolling.
 
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ATC shouldn’t have been playing ATIS gotcha. That’s not their job. You requested to land on a closed runway, they should’ve informed you it was closed. You request 3R instead. End of story. Not even an occurrence report unless you actually landed on 3L.

Call them if you want or don’t call them. It’s up to you.
 
sounds like you didn't get notams preflight either, as I highly doubt they started construction during your flight. also, troll.
 
TommyG said:
It was almost believable until he said he heard he didn’t have to actually call tower. I call BS on the post.
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You don't actually have to brief your flight. You don't actually have to check the ATIS. You don't actually have to be honest to ATC. You don't actually have to land on a runway that's not closed. You don't actually have to call the tower.
 
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