luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
360 on a half mile final??? I'm going to assume maybe you misjudged that distance. If not, that Controller needed to have his thinking realigned. Looking back on it do you think you were really farther out than that?
dtuuri
Final Approach
Not gonna read four pages on this, but if I were you I'd call. Then I'd lie one more time, "I'm sorry, I musta been thinkin' 'bout the previous airport." Done.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
M
Messedup
Guest
OP here, i certainly wish that was the case, this thread blew up much more than I anticipated. Just so everyone knows, I called the number and had a good discussion with the tower manager. It ended up being a discussion of procedures more than anything. Everything is resolved and we can all move on the lesson has been learned. Thanks for the lively chatter that followed my story.When the OP posts once and the thread goes three pages, it's a reasonable assumption someone is laughing in their parents basement
schmookeeg
En-Route
Hang 4 needs a PoA Lazarus Trophy. Bravo.
...ready for the next!
...ready for the next!
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Cool. Thanks for checking back in with lesson learned. I just may feel fine munchin' pretzels and sippin' beer in the back someday with you callin' the shots up front.
What was the lesson learned?
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Mahneuvers
After I posted, I thought the same as I didn't have any flaps in yet. Was likely further out. I remember being shocked by the request. It was 25 years ago so I'll use that defense
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ask him.
schmookeeg
En-Route
"I should call tower if it is in my best interest"
Daleandee
Final Approach
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Dale Andee
"Only if the POA brain trust insist that it is the best thing to do ... I'll check with them first!"
schmookeeg
En-Route
"and if it is not in my interest, F that tower guy, I don't need to talk to him, nobody can make me"
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
Tell ‘em you don’t have a phone. Haha
Daleandee
Final Approach
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Dale Andee
I remember a guy that busted the Bravo. The controller told him of possible pilot deviation and said, "I have a number for you to call, let me know when you're ready to copy."
His response ... "I'm not ready to copy. I'm flying!"
Johnvan
Pre-Flight
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John
So easy to call immediately. I accidentally went off frequency for several minutes and when I realized my error and called ATC back I was given the dreaded “I have a number for you to call, possible pilot deviation “
The moment I landed I immediately called and apologized and explained my error. (Sun glare made it difficult to see the light indicating which radio was selected “
We had a friendly conversation and that was the end of it. If I didn’t call him back I’m not sure the outcome would have been so favorable.
The moment I landed I immediately called and apologized and explained my error. (Sun glare made it difficult to see the light indicating which radio was selected “
We had a friendly conversation and that was the end of it. If I didn’t call him back I’m not sure the outcome would have been so favorable.
Pinecone
En-Route
File report THEN call.
What difference does it make?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
"A CFI once told me..."
I think the reason this post blew up is that a large part of being a pilot requires integrity and honesty. We as a community take that responsibility very seriously. When people, post here that they lied to ATC, or cheated on a test, it goes to undermine us all just a bit.
I do appreciate that you came clean and owned up to the potential consequences, hopefully you learned something from it. We all get overloaded from time to time but ATC is not here to bust you, they can and will help you. Enough said, as far as I am concerned the problem was resolved and things worked out well.
According to Section 12.3 of FAA Advisory Circular 00-46F, the waiver of imposition of sanction requires the report to be submitted within ten days after the violation. There is no requirement to submit it before calling them.So you can tell them you already filed the NASA report.
texasclouds
En-Route
Wow, op actually called. Someone buy that man a free membership!
I’m still trying to figure out what he’d say in the report. That he willfully ignored an atc request to check the atis and then lied to them about it? Do you really get a waiver from willful negligence?
Pinecone
En-Route
Do it whatever way you want.
But being able to call and discuss having already filed is how I would do it. YMMV
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
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Tarheelpilot
I don’t think it would but I haven’t read the criteria for nasa safety reports in a long time. I know all of the asap programs at air carriers I have worked for specifically excluded willful violations.
If you call first, you'll be able to cover the salient points that AT might be reporting to FSDO. Immunity from certificate action (if applicable) comes from a timely NASA report. I've advised many pilots what issue had to be reported to FSDO and followed up with with the suggestion to file a NASA report including where to find the website.
When ATC asks me to call them on the phone, I do so as soon as I get the airplane parked. No negative consequences so far.
Lachlan
En-Route
Yeah, but those things land themselves, so it doesn’t really matter if you know what’s going on or not. Right?
benyflyguy
En-Route
I didn’t know you could refuse to call. Seems like it would take more time to find that out than just make the call.
Kritchlow
Final Approach
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Kritchlow
Right. The Bus even weaves the cones on the runway. It’s amazing.Yeah, but those things land themselves, so it doesn’t really matter if you know what’s going on or not. Right?
1000RR
Pre-takeoff checklist
I had a NORDO flying IFR over to the Bahamas. Short story is - I never received a handoff. Fortunately, during flight planning, I had a couple frequencies for the general area where it happened. They gave me a phone number to call once I landed. I called Miami and told them the sequence of frequencies I received, when I believe I lost radio comm, and how I got back in touch with them. I then asked them, what they suggested I do different. They didn't have any suggestions and just indicated they'd listen to the tapes and figure out if there were any separation issues etc. and likely it was a controller that didn't hand me off in time or just an area where this happens occasionally. I also filed a NASA report after the phone call, just reiterating what happened, etc. On the way back from the Bahamas, in the same area, I contacted Center to just make sure I still had them (same area) and explained I had lost them on the way over. He said sometimes that happens and gave me another frequency right then and to stay with him on that. I called the number, filed the NASA report... not sure anything will come of it. But I figure honesty is best policy and I had nothing to hide.
Same is true for ASRS reports, willful violations are not covered for immunity from certificate action. That being said, the act of filing the report would likely be looked at favorably, in proper context, of an airman realizing they screwed up. There was a case in the SF Bay area a while back where an intentional violation happened and the pilot was not protected from certificate action even though they filed an ASRS report. That pilot did not seem to have the same retrospective "come to Jesus" moment that OP had.
It sounds like you have been thru this many times having to call ATC. It may benefit us under “lessons learned” for you to start a new thread on what prompted you to have to call ATC so we can all learn and not repeat the same mistakes.
I just meant that it's my policy to call when asked, not that it's a frequent occurrence. At the moment I only recall a couple of occasions (over the past thirty years), but I'll be happy to describe them.
1. One time I was on an IFR night flight to Camarillo, CA (CMA). I was coming in on V485, which due to terrain had me 5000 feet above the airport when I got it in sight. I was subsequently cleared for a visual approach. Since I couldn't see the surrounding terrain, I opted to spiral down overhead the airport and join the pattern for landing. This apparently took the approach controller by surprise, which resulted in a phone call, in which I explained my concern about the terrain, and that as a result, I felt that spiraling down was necessary for safety. I don't remember what he said next, but I think it was along the lines that he would have liked to be informed of what I was planning. (I wish it had occurred to me to ask him what flight path he was expecting to see!)
In thinking about it later, I realized that it would have been more efficient to file a route to an IAF, which would have provided me with guaranteed terrain clearance and probably wouldn't have taken any longer.
2. Another time I was flying to a CAF meeting at Oakland (OAK), and made a night VFR landing on RWY 28R with an inop landing light. The runway edge lights provided ample guidance for the landing. For taxiing without a light, I had been taught to rely on the taxiway lights. This time, that didn't work, because the exit taxiways were wide enough so that I confused the space between the taxiways with one of the taxiways, resulting in my getting stuck in the rough grass. An airport guy was summoned, who helped me push the plane back onto the runway. Since by that time, I knew where the actual exit was, I was able to taxi off without incident. In the process, I also noticed that it was possible to see the yellow lines leading to the taxiway, illuminated by my nav lights.
In the subsequent phone call, the tower guy urged me to wait for daylight to take off. I felt I could do it safely, being then aware of the problem and a workaround, and I pointed out that landing lights are not required in non-commercial operations. He pointed out that in light of what had happened, it would be better to wait. I said I would consider it, and the call ended. At some point during the evening, I came to the conclusion that I would rather not poke the bear, so I got a ride home from a fellow CAF member who is also based at Palo Alto. The next morning I used public transportation to get to OAK, which was actually kind of fun.
I think there was a third call, but I've forgotten what it was about.
Thanks! Lots of great info to know. It hasn’t happened to me yet but hopefully I won’t repeat those and invent some of my own to post here. Much appreciated you sharing your experiences. Biggest take away MAKE THE CALL when asked to.
I'm not sure I understand. "Learning the rules takes too much time" just doesn't compute for me.
So, if you commit a crime and the police question you, might as well answer all the questions because "finding out" you don't have to would take too much time? (Miranda warnings only apply if you are in custody)
This actually happened with me. Picked up a number of bee packages (3lbs of bees per package) apparently one of the packages had a tear in the wire. There's always a few riders. But a few turned into more than a few dozen in a 1 hour flight.