FBO will not give me my plane back

Clip4 said:
As I stated, I know zero commercial FBOs that allow you to park your airplane two weeks for free and I don’t believe we have gotten the whole story.
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Ours doesn't, planes get left on the tie downs all the time. Neither does my hometown. I stayed a week back home once, didn't pay for anything except self serve fuel. Quite common outside of the larger airports. The FBO doesn't own the pavement, and didn't pay to put it there, tax dollars did. That is what the AOPA has been going after airports for, airports where an FBO like Signature has sole control over all tax payer funded ramp space and charges exorbitant fees.
 
Clip4 said:
Sounding like something should violate a law does not mean the law was violated. The act must meet all the elements.
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And knowingly writing a check that the payee believes is good, but you KNOW is going to be stopped, is OK with you? Can you cash a check for me for a couple of grand? I've seen this happen, and at least in Ohio, it will get you arrested.
 
kyleb said:
FBO's assume overnight or, maybe, a couple of days unless you tell them otherwise.
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That wasn't the case at the FBO I worked at. Whether they asked or volunteered the information or not, every pilot of an aircraft parking on our ramp that wasn't already paying a monthly tie down was asked how long they were planning to stay before they left the premises. They were usually asked before they even got parked.

I think the cancelled check route is a bad idea. Depending on the state, could be a felony. Even if funds are available when the check was written. The credit card idea is better IMO. Put it on a card, get your plane then dispute the charge with credit card company. If they allow it, take the FBO to small claims. Based on what's been described, I have a hard time believing there is a judge out there who would rule in the FBO's favor.

You check into a hotel for two weeks and the rate is quoted as $50/night. Then when its time to check out, guess what? The hotel got sold yesterday and we've changed the policy, that'll be $500/night for the room you've had for the last two weeks. I don't think there's a judge in the country that would rule in their favor on that one.
 
Here in the Midwest, it's very rare to pay a parking fee. I still ask every time I go somewhere but it's been over 10 years since I paid a parking fee. Granted I rarely stay over night but, the last one I remember was in International Falls, MN. I think it was $7/day which I gladly paid.
 
AndrewX said:
Then you're done and you've learned a valuable lesson.
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Clip4 said:
Depending on the airport location and other circumstances, $150 would neither be a fair offer for a plane stored for two weeks or sufficient to convince the FBO to settle the disagreement.

In defense of the FBO, I know of zero non-government operated FBOs that will allow you to park your airplane for two weeks free.
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At RDU, a reasonably busy class C, I used to pay $75/month to Tac Air for a tiedown (2013?)
 
I kinda think the previous FBO owner was a bit of an ass, too. A sale like this doesn't happen overnight, he knew it was about to happen and didn't (OK, an assumption) tell the OP that he'd have to deal with a new owner real soon now.

It reminds me of a rental plane I wanted to get checked out in. FBO rules were that I needed a checkout with one of their CFIs. That's normal operating procedure to get signed off, nothing I wasn't prepared for, so I got the checkout. The next day I returned to rent for a flight and found out the plane was gone. It had been sold some time earlier (weeks? maybe) and it was flown off to its new owner the morning I was set to fly it.
 
If you truly believe that they are in the wrong, research the laws in your state (ie an attorney) and file a detinue or action of replevin.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
The credit card chargeback is a good idea. The customer is basically always right with a credit card chargeback, especially with American Express. I have never seen the "retailer", in this case the FBO, ever win a chargeback. I don't know why the process isn't actually fair to both parties, but I would give it a greater than 80% chance that you could just dispute the charge and it will be refunded immediately and two months later you will get a letter that the matter is settled and the money is back for good. You can always still start the small claims court stuff in the meantime. Do both and whichever one works first, you can go with that one. Not a problem if both of them work out!
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You are 100% right on this, I am a car dealer and we get charge backs and very seldom win on appeal, no matter the circumstances. One guy charged back $8000.00 on a diesel truck repair that actually fixed his truck and got it running fine. He just decided he didn't want to pay and claimed we made unnecessary repairs. And just like that, he got $8000 in free work, we argued, sent factory repair guides on what it took to fix his problem etc and Visa said tough cookies!! I would pay with a credit card and dispute the charge, but DO NOT overly upset or make it seem like you are going to charge it back or they will require a bank check or cash!!! Tell them, I guess you win and throw down the card after you inspect the airplane.
 
Matthew said:
I kinda think the previous FBO owner was a bit of an ass, too. A sale like this doesn't happen overnight, he knew it was about to happen and didn't (OK, an assumption) tell the OP that he'd have to deal with a new owner real soon now.

It reminds me of a rental plane I wanted to get checked out in. FBO rules were that I needed a checkout with one of their CFIs. That's normal operating procedure to get signed off, nothing I wasn't prepared for, so I got the checkout. The next day I returned to rent for a flight and found out the plane was gone. It had been sold some time earlier (weeks? maybe) and it was flown off to its new owner the morning I was set to fly it.
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This make me think. The old owner may have told him no fee just because he could care less. Might have put both the new owner and the pilot in a crappy situation though. And doesn’t excuse the new owner for stealing an airplane over a bit of hangar space when he wasn’t communicating with the pilot and didn’t contact him.
 
^^^

Yeah, I think there are some legitimate legal questions of if the FBO can hold the airplane hostage. I think there's really something wrong there.
 
Matthew said:
^^^

Yeah, I think there are some legitimate legal questions of if the FBO can hold the airplane hostage. I think there's really something wrong there.
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It’s not like it cost the FbO anything like mechanical work or parts. If they needed the space, they could have called or put it out on the ramp. There’s no justification for stealing a plane. And yes, I consider this theft.

Again, assuming we have heard the full truth.
 
MooneyGuy35 said:
Hello everyone!

I recently took my plane and parked it at an FBO. It has been there for about two weeks. When I left it there, I left my name, number, and email. I also bought fuel. I was told that there were no ramp fees or parking fees. I was told this by their management.

Now I come back as planned, and they put my plane in the back of one of their hangars and will not let me see it nor take it without paying $75 / day. They want me to pay about $1,200 to take my plane back.

Any idea on what I can do about this? Is this even legal? I never signed anything.
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Without a written contract, it would boil down to the question of who is taking advantage of whom. If this was in a busy metropolitan area where every FBO is charging $75/day, then your expectations are unreasonable. If it is a remote airport where tie down is usually free, then they are taking advantage of you. So, without more details of where and when this occurred, we are just speculating here.
 
I knew a girl years ago who kept a T-Craft tied down at the local airport. Due to a mixup, the tiedown didn't get paid for a couple of months. Instead of trying to contact her, the FBO wrapped a chain around the prop and padlocked it. Boy was she ****ed off when she saw all the gouges in her cowling.
 
So this guy joins up yesterday. Starts this thread and put up three posts and then goes silent.

Any chance this is MaxReason returning for more fun?
 
donjohnston said:
So this guy joins up yesterday. Starts this thread and put up three posts and then goes silent.

Any chance this is MaxReason returning for more fun?
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I think he's just gone into stealth mode while he breaks into the hangar and flies out in the dead of night. Happens all the time on that airplane repo show.
 
you just finished dinner with your wife, you walk outside and the valet guy says "you have to write me a check for $1200 to get your car back because I cleaned the windshield"
I never asked him to do that. I would write the check, and cancel the check the minute I drove off. That valet guy will have 0 recourse. I would not be convicted with a felony.

I'm going to do what I need to do to leave the situation with the least amount of damage to myself.

I'm not sure how this is any different. If they want to take you to small claims court for $1200 and cancelling the check, great go for it.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Then you can both write each other checks, cancel them, both go to jail, end up cell mates, and beat the living sh*t out of each other.

He stoled my plane!
images


He took my car!
View attachment 69775
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Uhh... Both those clowns liked touching little kiddies.... Nice try.
 
donjohnston said:
So this guy joins up yesterday. Starts this thread and put up three posts and then goes silent.

Any chance this is MaxReason returning for more fun?
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Naw... Captain
 
Pay what they're asking, put it on a credit card, dispute the charge, pay nothing, **** them.
 
donjohnston said:
So this guy joins up yesterday. Starts this thread and put up three posts and then goes silent.

Any chance this is MaxReason returning for more fun?
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Couldn't be @max_reason -- The posts were too short! Heehee

But even if this was a troll, it is interesting and brought up some ideas about the differences between leaving your $40k plane on the ramp or your $40k car at the airport parking lot.

[Note: my plane is worth more than 40 and my car is worth less. And I rarely drink forties]
 
Let’s just say, for arguments sake, that we’ve gotten the whole story and the OP is legit. If it were me I’d be camped at that FBO and let them know I’m not leaving until I have my airplane. I’d also be taking pictures, video, getting names and gathering information. I’d probably be striking up conversations with every customer that walked in. They would eventually have to call the cops to get rid of me at which point the LEO’s would be forced to arbitrate and settle the dispute. I’m pretty sure that unless the Sheriff is the FBO owners brother or something they are not going to be allowed to keep my airplane without a lien filed with the county clerk. They can certainly bill me, good luck with that. Furthermore I’d make it clear to the FBO owner that I will be telling my tale to the local Chamber of Commerce, BBB, AOPA, EAA and posting on every aviation forum I can find with every detail I have on him.

The squeakiest wheel gets the oil.
 
Charge the FBO an hourly dry rate for the use of your plane, not to fly but for them to look at and admire and take pictures of for advertising. Expect and charge royalty fees, If they use your plane in any advertisements.
You will also charge them a daily and weekly rate to make their transient numbers look higher for government grants and special FAA waviers.

Then charge them a ramp fee and security fee for you to keep your plane safe. (Note they are still responsible for any damage)
Then I would charge them a $1200 removal/ disposal fee for you to take your plane and remove it off the ramp and fly away.
 
Palmpilot said:
I think it's weird to call as many newcomers trolls as we do.
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I somewhat agree.....but I think what many of the newcomers post is weird. (like I'm one to talk ha ha)

Sometimes I think there is one or two people who have no real other life, and just sit around and make up identities so they can post odd questions and watch the reactions. (basic trolling)

It would stand more to reason for that sort of thing to happen on websites (not this one) that generate revenue based on traffic, and is done by the beneficiaries. A clickbait based style so to speak. But for the lonely or mischievous it works here as well.
 
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midwestpa24 said:
Ours doesn't, planes get left on the tie downs all the time. Neither does my hometown. I stayed a week back home once, didn't pay for anything except self serve fuel. Quite common outside of the larger airports. The FBO doesn't own the pavement, and didn't pay to put it there, tax dollars did. That is what the AOPA has been going after airports for, airports where an FBO like Signature has sole control over all tax payer funded ramp space and charges exorbitant fees.
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Oh god, here we go. Another guy that things an FBO who rents an airport ramp can’t charge.
 
Silvaire said:
Let’s just say, for arguments sake, that we’ve gotten the whole story and the OP is legit. If it were me I’d be camped at that FBO and let them know I’m not leaving until I have my airplane. I’d also be taking pictures, video, getting names and gathering information. I’d probably be striking up conversations with every customer that walked in. They would eventually have to call the cops to get rid of me at which point the LEO’s would be forced to arbitrate and settle the dispute. I’m pretty sure that unless the Sheriff is the FBO owners brother or something they are not going to be allowed to keep my airplane without a lien filed with the county clerk. They can certainly bill me, good luck with that. Furthermore I’d make it clear to the FBO owner that I will be telling my tale to the local Chamber of Commerce, BBB, AOPA, EAA and posting on every aviation forum I can find with every detail I have on him.

The squeakiest wheel gets the oil.
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Actually LEOs do not arbitrate civil disputes, the courts do. Someone going to jail for trespass and disorderly conduct would be the likely result.
 
Palmpilot said:
If you think someone is insincere, no one is forcing you to participate in the discussion.
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That is the whole point of a discussion. Opposing views and opinions. Apparently you want everyone to just be on the same page and agree.
 
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