Fatal ICON A5 crash

I believe that happened near their HQ and where they do their test flying. It would be a major blow if it was one of the company's top pilots or officials.
 
The victims have been identified as 55-year-old Jon Murray Karkow, the pilot in command of the aircraft, and 41-year-old Cagri Sever, who was a passenger.

Both are employees of ICON Aircraft.
 
It's not wildly positive for Icon that two of eight planes have been destroyed and the chief designer / test pilot was killed in a certified airframe.


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Cap'n Jack said:
How so? I didn't see where a cause was identified.
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Maybe the CEO will put out a press release that it was "pilot error" before NTSB even says a word, like the last one, and then go carefully radio-silent?

Meanwhile... back in reality... interesting damage pattern. To snap the tail boom, usually there'd have to be a rotational or massive downward force... rotational makes the most sense here, with the right wingtip busted off, and nose caved in... right wingtip dug in, nose hits water, tail snaps off.
 
gsengle said:
It's not wildly positive for Icon that two of eight planes have been destroyed and the chief designer / test pilot was killed in a certified airframe.
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I thought these were light sport? Assuming that's the case, it's not type certified.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I believe that happened near their HQ and where they do their test flying. It would be a major blow if it was one of the company's top pilots or officials.
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It's a tragedy for ANYONE to be killed in one. Not just company officials.
 
He said it was a major blow. That's different.


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citizen5000 said:
It's a tragedy for ANYONE to be killed in one. Not just company officials.
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True but if the average person died in the accident it would not be a major blow to the company. Whereas the individuals killed in this accident would constitute a major blow. Disagree if you must. Won't bother me.
 
gsengle said:
He said it was a major blow. That's different.
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It's a major tragedy and major blow for ANYONE to be killed in one of their planes.
 
UngaWunga said:
People on this site just enjoy being negative.
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And jumping to conclusions.

Yes, it's true Lake Berryessa isn't too far from Icon's HQ at Nut Tree.

But NOTHING is known about the circumstances of the crash just yet. Nada. Please withhold judgment until there are some actual facts. If for no other reason than out of respect for the dead.
 
MAKG1 said:
But NOTHING is known about the circumstances of the crash just yet. Nada. Please withhold judgment until there are some actual facts. If for no other reason than out of respect for the dead.
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Actually, they're requesting witnesses come forward in the very first press release from the public safety PAO, so that usually means nobody or very few saw it happen. Just something you recognize if you've been around enough PAOs... if they had a bunch of witnesses that wouldn't have been in the presser.
 
I think @gsengle is right, regardless of the cause the overall perception is going to be stigmatized from this...
 
And the deceased has already been made public. I posted the linked in profile of one, and it will clearly be a blow to the company beyond just the tragedy of another crash and the deaths given his role.


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denverpilot said:
Actually, they're requesting witnesses come forward in the very first press release from the public safety PAO, so that usually means nobody or very few saw it happen. Just something you recognize if you've been around enough PAOs... if they had a bunch of witnesses that wouldn't have been in the presser.
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Most flight tests are accompanied by piles of telemetry data. Hold your horses, and don't speculate without it.
 
MAKG1 said:
Most flight tests are accompanied by piles of telemetry data. Hold your horses, and don't speculate without it.
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We don't know it was a test flight either...


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gsengle said:
We don't know it was a test flight either...


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True, even though it was in their test flight area and two employees were flying it.

But a couple of random schmoes on the Internet are NOT going to know more than people with physical access to the aircraft. Which is difficult due to the terrain. It's pretty rough out there. Give it time.
 
gsengle said:
And the deceased has already been made public. I posted the linked in profile of one, and it will clearly be a blow to the company beyond just the tragedy of another crash and the deaths given his role.


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I'm glad you understand. Some folks just love to be... well how do I say this... moronically judgmental.
 
mondtster said:
I know this, it is still not type certified. There's a difference, and it typically shows in the airplane product. This may or may not be a factor in the accident (likely not though) and should be considered.
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My point was simply that if this had been an early test airplane the judgement of the public would be more forgiving than it happening at this stage with aircraft in production...


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MAKG1 said:
Most flight tests are accompanied by piles of telemetry data. Hold your horses, and don't speculate without it.
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No speculation here. Government agencies NEVER ask for help if they think they've got what they need. Too many freaking phone calls and not enough people to handle them. BTDT.
 
gsengle said:
My point was simply that if this had been an early test airplane the judgement of the public would be more forgiving than it happening at this stage with aircraft in production...
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I figured as much. Given enough time and the right marketing scheme people won't remember the accident. What will probably be a bigger blow to further development of the airplane will be the fact that it appears that one of the main guys was in the accident airplane.

It will be interesting to see what can be determined from the accident investigation. I'm curious what they were out doing/testing. I have some suspicions but will withhold them.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
How so? I didn't see where a cause was identified.
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Because it is just another item on the list of issues they have had. I wanted this to be successful as much as anyone but the last year for them has been absolutely brutal.
 
mondtster said:
I'm curious what they were out doing/testing. I have some suspicions but will withhold them.
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I suspect I have the same idea about the test, if it was a test.

Flight Test is dangerous, much less so than the earlier days. But still dangerous.

Cheers
 
I'm wondering who the customers are. PPL, BasicMed, LSA pilots, or just maybe wealthy non-pilots who see the neat video and learn from the company "all about" the plane and that with few weeks training they can own and fly one. If they are not readers of this site and not hooked into general aviation news, then I doubt this crash, regardless of the cause, will have much effect on that particular segment of buyers.
 
Tragic in every aspect to me.
Lives were lost
ICON not only takes a blow in their reputation, but loses probably 2 of their most brilliant minded.
Tarnishes GA in general
Is unsettling to any pilot, whether consciously or subconsciously
The list goes on...
 
FlyingElvii said:
From the photos, it looks like it snagged a wire.
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Interesting speculation. There is indeed high power wires across the bottom of the lake. It's charted on the sectional and visible on google earth if you look closely. That said this pilot should have been very familiar....

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The large AOA instrument in the middle of a proprietary panel along with the proprietary "spin proof" design (which they needed and got a weight exception for) was being hyped by them as a near fool-proof plane no other design could claim. These accidents are destroying that notion.

The target customer appeared to be yacht owners looking for a way to park the plane on their boats and use them to get to shore and back. Small/light, boat hull, folding wings, two seat commuting configuation and VERY expensive compared to other LSA.
 
citizen5000 said:
The large AOA instrument in the middle of a proprietary panel along with the proprietary "spin proof" design (which they needed and got a weight exception for) was being hyped by them as a near fool-proof plane no other design could claim. These accidents are destroying that notion.

The target customer appeared to be yacht owners looking for a way to park the plane on their boats and use them to get to shore and back. Small/light, boat hull, folding wings, two seat commuting configuation and VERY expensive compared to other LSA.
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Not that expensive actually, price a carbon cub or the like.


What I just was thinking about, was the one that sunk after a hull breach from a hard water landing, I've plopped a few down before and to breach the hull in most seaplanes would take some major force, now this one where the whole tail came off, not saying it contributed to this unfortunate accident, but it kinda looks like maybe some straight was traded for LSA weight.
 
Cykoguy said:
Because it is just another item on the list of issues they have had. I wanted this to be successful as much as anyone but the last year for them has been absolutely brutal.
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Some of it self-inflicted.
 
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