Fastest Twin Piston Under 400K?

Lance F said:
Mooney turbo flight yesterday. Wow. At 17,000’. So sucking O2 for 8 hours. View attachment 114124
Click to expand...

Interesting flight if you look at it. Averaged around 220 KTS east bound on Tuesday, which is pretty good for any piston much less a single, but flew back yesterday at 130 KTS? He overnighted in Kalamazoo but still couldn't do much better than 150 KTS today. Obviously some significant easterly flow in the flight levels this week, but even still it seems like this '240 knot' Mooney Acclaim is more like a 180 knot airplane even at altitude.

C.
 
camorton said:
Interesting flight if you look at it. Averaged around 220 KTS east bound on Tuesday, which is pretty good for any piston much less a single, but flew back yesterday at 130 KTS? He overnighted in Kalamazoo but still couldn't do much better than 150 KTS today. Obviously some significant easterly flow in the flight levels this week, but even still it seems like this '240 knot' Mooney Acclaim is more like a 180 knot airplane even at altitude.

C.
Click to expand...
I think we can safely conclude that the Mooney Acclaim is not the "fastest twin piston under 400k." Finally.
 
schmookeeg said:
If I had access to a baron for 165 dry I'd just fly the wings off of it and keep plying the owner with alcoholic refreshment and throw his calculators in the trash when I encountered them.
Click to expand...

Is the alcohol to keep the owner from flying, so you can fly more often, or to keep him from checking his math? ;)
 
camorton said:
Obviously some significant easterly flow in the flight levels this week, but even still it seems like this '240 knot' Mooney Acclaim is more like a 180 knot airplane even at altitude.
C.
Click to expand...
For sure an Acclaim doesn’t carry enough fuel to go 8 hours at max power settings. 180 kts is probably realistic for this mission. Still pretty impressive cross country machine. I wish my plane had a puny 5 hour range.
 
Ted said:
Bring back the Clipper!

51SjV5OAB9L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
Click to expand...


That would be an amazing experience. A separate dining room. :D
 
Lance F said:
For sure an Acclaim doesn’t carry enough fuel to go 8 hours at max power settings. 180 kts is probably realistic for this mission. Still pretty impressive cross country machine. I wish my plane had a puny 5 hour range.
Click to expand...

My Mooney 252 is 175 KTAS at about 10 GPH. With the extended range tanks, I have almost 9 hours with reserve.
 
I know of one Twin-Bee that was refurbished for this mission. Flying boat for over water and twin for over water. Trouble was it’s a 90knot airplane at 18-20 gph.
 
schmookeeg said:
If I had access to a baron for 165 dry I'd just fly the wings off of it and keep plying the owner with alcoholic refreshment and throw his calculators in the trash when I encountered them.
Click to expand...
To be fair this was about 4-5 years ago! I'd imagine he'd charge more these days. But his annual was about $10k (fixed a bunch of squawks), and he paid about $250 a month for a hangar. Not a ton of unscheduled maintenance that I was aware of. I have no idea what he paid for insurance, but I had more ME time than he did by a wide margin.
 
I’ve flown 414s and 421s. Nice flying planes but you’ll need a lot of time in type and yearly recurrent to get insured. The geared engines are also some of the most complicated out there to operate and maintain. All kinds of stuff can go wrong if you don’t fly them how they are supposed to be flown.

For your mission, I’d go smaller. Seneca, 310, or a Baron. That’s probably all you can get insurance for anyway, and even then, expect to do 50+ hours of dual. I know a guy who sold his Bonanza and got a Baron. Insurance wanted 100 hours dual and that was after other companies told him they weren’t interested.
 
Oh, how I wanted an Aerostar….

And then I saw the maintenance bills. Yikes!

You won’t like my answer.

With an Aerostar you’re lugging a whole lot of extra unoccupied iron with nooooo benefit. If you’re bringing your bowling team everywhere sure. Otherwise? Why?

I don’t understand the twin requirement. With $400k for 2 seats, I’d scream with a turbine lancair. What EVER :)That said…

Onevote is for a Baron. Club seating. Parts availability and support. Price is definitely in the range. I know someone who scored a few years back with one for $100k and I hate him for it to this day :) turbos, radar, ADSB-in, active traffic…

A quick search of trade-a-plane for airplanes between 375 and 425 yielded mostly barons, some 421’s and 401’s, etc. Boooring.

310’s? Pshaw. Not new, not sexy, and you’re overpaying for the model at that price.

I own a seneca. A seneca is nice but not what you want.

Mooneys are great singles. I have a K model (165/175), 104 gallons of juice, 28k ceiling, and on board entertainment :) not the roomiest, but again - you want a twin. I have an M20E too. Economical, fast-ish, but you want a fast twin.

Twin Comanches are ancient, parts availability sucks, difficult to insure.

The median and reliable answer for you is a Baron. And insurance will eat you alive for quite a while until you have the time. And that will be a while.

My out of the box answer?

Experimental. Velocity twin. Two four bangers in a sexy package with super reliable engines without the difficulties of quirky certified planes. 185 knots and sipping fuel …

Ha!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Llk said:
Oh, how I wanted an Aerostar….

And then I saw the maintenance bills. Yikes!

You won’t like my answer.

With an Aerostar you’re lugging a whole lot of extra unoccupied iron with nooooo benefit. If you’re bringing your bowling team everywhere sure. Otherwise? Why?

I don’t understand the twin requirement. With $400k for 2 seats, I’d scream with a turbine lancair. What EVER :)That said…

Onevote is for a Baron. Club seating. Parts availability and support. Price is definitely in the range. I know someone who scored a few years back with one for $100k and I hate him for it to this day :) turbos, radar, ADSB-in, active traffic…

A quick search of trade-a-plane for airplanes between 375 and 425 yielded mostly barons, some 421’s and 401’s, etc. Boooring.

310’s? Pshaw. Not new, not sexy, and you’re overpaying for the model at that price.

I own a seneca. A seneca is nice but not what you want.

Mooneys are great singles. I have a K model (165/175), 104 gallons of juice, 28k ceiling, and on board entertainment :) not the roomiest, but again - you want a twin. I have an M20E too. Economical, fast-ish, but you want a fast twin.

Twin Comanches are ancient, parts availability sucks, difficult to insure.

The median and reliable answer for you is a Baron. And insurance will eat you alive for quite a while until you have the time. And that will be a while.

My out of the box answer?

Experimental. Velocity twin. Two four bangers in a sexy package with super reliable engines without the difficulties of quirky certified planes. 185 knots and sipping fuel …

Ha!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

All that makes sense. I'll be buying a Baron in the near future. I like the roominess of the Seneca but they are a little slower and I'm just sold on the build quality of Beech airplanes. Twin Commanches, Twin Bonanzas, Aztecs...all are older airframes and they are getting harder to maintain. For sure there's some old Barons out there, but the airplane is still in production and there's a ton of parts to be had, even for the discontinued models. The Aerostars are fast...sexy looking airplanes. But being a rare type, they are expensive machines. Cessna cabin-class twins are nice airframes but require quite a bit of maintenance to keep operational, particularly the 421. The company my dad used to fly for had two of them and they swore the King Air was more bang for the buck given the maintenance expense that went into the 421. 310s require gear rigging and there's a bunch of fuel pumps and tanks to deal with. The Baron is a pretty simple airplane, it's fast, it's built solid. For $400k someone could find a really nice Baron.

If I could ever afford the entry price, I'd spring for a used Piper Meridian. Lots of speed, a fairly bulletproof PT6 mated to a GA airframe (Malibu). Unfortunately even the oldest Meridians are going for north of $1 million these days. Pre-COVID I saw a few older examples on the market for $600-700k.
 
Llk said:
I own a seneca. A seneca is nice but not what you want.
Click to expand...
What about the Seneca rules it out for the OP’s mission?
 
eman1200 said:
"Requirements is fast......"
Click to expand...
That’s the OP’s originally stated requirement, which of course we know never has anything to do with the actual mission. A later post clarified that the OP’s mission is south Florida to Eleuthera, which looks to me like a 230-mile flight. A Seneca (165 KTAS) will do that in 1+24. You can save 15 minutes if you can go 200 knots. Heck, save another 15 minutes at 250 knots. Or just get a jet and do it in a half hour.

TL;DR: Fast is relative. A Seneca is probably “fast” enough for the OP.
 
iamtheari said:
What about the Seneca rules it out for the OP’s mission?
Click to expand...

Since the question was for my thought process…

OP said fastest. I took that as a relative term.

Fastest, money is no limit? Aerostar. Lots of empty seats. Hmm hmmm you’re a baller burning gas and keeping a mechanic on retainer. Uuuuhhhvweeeee. Kaching $$

Fastest, common sense median practical? Baron. 4 empty seats. Best Buy some carbon credits if the joneses keep up with you.

Seneca? Not the fastest. Not the cheapest. Not the roomiest. It’s Still burning 12 cylinders of gas. Nice compromise with 4 empty seats keeping one another club company.

B55 Baron? Cheaper to fly. Love the idea. Not as fast as other options. Heck, travel air fills this bucket too. Love this idea for certified.

Diamond twin? Blows the budget.

I literally just flew a Cessna 150 from Louisiana to Southern California, and the poor girl was burning entirely too much gas - giving me 2 hour range. Believe me, I appreciate speed and range …at 230 miles? Anything has range.

4 seat, 4 banger twin, not a gas hog, not a ton to acquire, no hard to find parts like a Twinkie? I do like that velocity :) 185 knots, and sipping gas. I’d prefer a twin J mooney, but it isn’t made, just like the twin Comanche isn’t made anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I will get blasted for this but the SR22 is the aircraft for this mission. Consider the chute as engine 2.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The OP was looking for the FASTEST piston twin.

The Catalina may very well be the SLOWEST piston twin.
Click to expand...
A Catalina for under 400k would certainly tie for the slowest piston twin.
 
Jeff767 said:
I will get blasted for this but the SR22 is the aircraft for this mission. Consider the chute as engine 2.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.
Image appears to be 10s after touchdown. If the wind had happened to turn the aircraft the other way with the water rushing in the open door this guy could have been in BIG trouble.

upload_2023-1-23_6-9-28.png


 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top