FAA - total ignorance of logic

[murphey]

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/ne...your-aviation-medical-examiner-needs-to-know/

The failure of logic - there are only 5 categories identified. In truth, there are 7. It is perfectly reasonable that 1) someone is not symptomatic or 2) never had any variation of COVID-19. Of course both of these are difficult to prove/demonstrate.

 

[Everskyward]

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/ne...your-aviation-medical-examiner-needs-to-know/

The failure of logic - there are only 5 categories identified. In truth, there are 7. It is perfectly reasonable that 1) someone is not symptomatic or 2) never had any variation of COVID-19. Of course both of these are difficult to prove/demonstrate.

But is seems from what is written, that the only time it becomes a factor is if you were (4) Hospitalized with ICU or (5) Have ongoing symptoms.

 

[TCABM]

Here’s the FAA guidance letter. Inwould assume if 2) above were the case then no entry related to COVID-19 would be made.

The latter also clearly states ‘lab-confirmed’ COVID, so I wonder how that telehealth appointment with no lab confirmed diagnosis would be handled.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...ication/media/COVID-19AMEEvaluationPolicy.pdf

 

[Brad Z]

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/ne...your-aviation-medical-examiner-needs-to-know/

The failure of logic - there are only 5 categories identified. In truth, there are 7. It is perfectly reasonable that 1) someone is not symptomatic or 2) never had any variation of COVID-19. Of course both of these are difficult to prove/demonstrate.

Asymptomatic falls under category #1.

If you've never been diagnosed with COVID-19, none of this applies to you.

What is the flaw of logic?

 

[murphey]

Asymptomatic falls under category #1.

If you've never been diagnosed with COVID-19, none of this applies to you.

What is the flaw of logic?

In the world of software, absence of a test is a huge hole! If you've never been tested, there's no way of knowing if you're symptomatic or never had the virus.

 

[Van Johnston]

I am not a doctor, not a lawyer, and only stayed at the Hampton Inn next door to the Holiday Inn Sunday night, but this wording in the preamble seems to me to cover the case of never tested (emphasis added): ...airmen and Air Traffic Control Specialists (ATCS) who have disclosed a history of COVID-19 infection...

So if you have never had symptoms, or any other reason to be tested, then you should have no reason to disclose.

 

[rk911]

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/ne...your-aviation-medical-examiner-needs-to-know/

The failure of logic - there are only 5 categories identified. In truth, there are 7. It is perfectly reasonable that 1) someone is not symptomatic or 2) never had any variation of COVID-19. Of course both of these are difficult to prove/demonstrate.

wouldn't #1..."Asymptomatic or Mild. Those who had an asymptomatic case or a mild case with full recovery be the same as not symptomatic? as for variations...seems to me that a variation of CV19 is still CV19. a rose by any other name...

 

[DaleB]

wouldn't #1..."Asymptomatic or Mild. Those who had an asymptomatic case or a mild case with full recovery be the same as not symptomatic? as for variations...seems to me that a variation of CV19 is still CV19. a rose by any other name...

What about we wo have never had it at all? I've been tested. Never had it. I'd be a 0, and not for the first time either.

Not that I really care. No AME for me, thanks.

 

[Brad Z]

In the world of software, absence of a test is a huge hole! If you've never been tested, there's no way of knowing if you're symptomatic or never had the virus.

So you want FAA to require a Covid test in order to get a medical?

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. This is guidance for AMEs who were uncertain as to whether to defer an applicant that had a history of Covid. Not a computer program.

 

[samiamPA]

Brad brought some good logic here.

I don't understand why the OP feels that this is a problem.

 

[Half Fast]

Hmmmm......

The instructions for the medical history on form 8500-8 say, "Do not report occasional common illnesses such as colds or sore throats." Given that COVID is "common" enough to constitute a pandemic, and given that an applicant has likely had it only once (even less than "occasional"), is the airman even required to disclose COVID in the first place?

Heck, I wouldn't report a case of the flu or strep throat, why would I report COVID?

 

[Brad Z]

Hmmmm......

The instructions for the medical history on form 8500-8 say, "Do not report occasional common illnesses such as colds or sore throats." Given that COVID is "common" enough to constitute a pandemic, and given that an applicant has likely had it only once (even less than "occasional"), is the airman even required to disclose COVID in the first place?

Heck, I wouldn't report a case of the flu or strep throat, why would I report COVID?

You might not report it, but your AME very well might ask if you've had it, particularly in the process of screening you for admittance into the office.

 

[Half Fast]

You might not report it, but your AME very well might ask if you've had it, particularly in the process of screening you for admittance into the office.

Maybe.

So far none of my doctors have asked me if I have had it. Before admittance, their office folks take my temperature and ask if I'm experiencing any symptoms or if I've been exposed to someone with COVID during the last 10 days. No one has asked whether I had it months ago.

The big illogic here is that the FAA is giving directions to AMEs regarding an illness that the airman isn't even required to report.

But Brad, please don't make waves and mention that to anyone at the FAA.

 

[dmspilot]

Too many reading comprehension failures.

 

[murphey]

So you want FAA to require a Covid test in order to get a medical?

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. This is guidance for AMEs who were uncertain as to whether to defer an applicant that had a history of Covid. Not a computer program.

No....my argument is that the whole situation of the FAA requiring details about covid is absurd, and the hole in the logic.

 

[TCABM]

In the world of software, absence of a test is a huge hole! If you've never been tested, there's no way of knowing if you're symptomatic or never had the virus.

In the world of human health, absence of a test doesn’t mean diddly squat.

 

[cowman]

The FAA require information they don't need on a medical application that might create a huge headache for someone? I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!

That said, I am once again glad I never took the test and now have a solid reason for not ever taking the test.

 

[Brad Z]

No....my argument is that the whole situation of the FAA requiring details about covid is absurd, and the hole in the logic.

Maybe.

So far none of my doctors have asked me if I have had it. Before admittance, their office folks take my temperature and ask if I'm experiencing any symptoms or if I've been exposed to someone with COVID during the last 10 days. No one has asked whether I had it months ago.

The big illogic here is that the FAA is giving directions to AMEs regarding an illness that the airman isn't even required to report.

But Brad, please don't make waves and mention that to anyone at the FAA.

You're required to report visits to health care providers. So when you spend a month on a vent and ECMO, the AME would like a little guidance from the aeromedical mothership on how to handle the situation, versus if you reported a telemedicine consult with your PCP due to fly like symptoms and loss of taste.

 

[Brad Z]

No....my argument is that the whole situation of the FAA requiring details about covid is absurd, and the hole in the logic.

I missed the part in the policy memo where the FAA is requesting anything more than what they have always asked in questions 18 and 19 in medXpress.

 

[bbchien]

The directions were issued to the AMEs. We understand it easily. “Don’t panic, lads!”

 

[p1l0t]

If you want to keep your medical just take the 14 days off. It's as simple as that.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[BrianR]

Brad Z is correct. As an ICU clinician who has cared for multitudes of covid patients, I can tell you with certainty that any pilot or air traffic controller admitted to an ICU with covid 19 is not likely fit to fly. These are NOT the folks with a week or two of fever, cough, body aches and other "flu" type symptoms. If you were sick enough to make it to the ICU, you certainly had significant impairment of at least one body system, and likely multi organ involvement. In fact, I cannot, off the top of my head, recall even one patient from our covid ICU in the past year who survived to hospital discharge and did not suffer significant and ongoing pulmonary and/or neurologic effects. These are patients who end up needing months of rehab, and are unlikely to ever resume their previous level of functioning. Of course, I'm sure there are a few such people out there, but the FAA has this one correct.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

The failure of logic - there are only 5 categories identified. In truth, there are 7.

This is the FAA and aeromedicals - what else would you expect ?