FAA Seeks 23 More Hours of CVR Time

Daleandee said:
How long before video recorders are required?
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Cockpit video cameras have been on the wish list for years. ICAO has had several working papers on them. However, unions and politics keep them out. Regardless, as more pilots film their flights for their youtube channels it will be sooner than later cmeras will be a fixture on the flight deck. Know of several small ops that use them now in a limited capacity.
 
Bell206 said:
Cockpit video cameras have been on the wish list for years. ICAO has had several working papers on them. However, unions and politics keep them out. Regardless, as more pilots film their flights for their youtube channels it will be sooner than later cmeras will be a fixture on the flight deck. Know of several small ops that use them now in a limited capacity.
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To get the pilots (the young(er) ones) to buy in, all you'd have to say is they'd have access to the footage after the flight.

I'd imagine there'd be a "We'll provide the footage, but no audio" clause, but still. I really believe that would be enough.
 
I’ve read a lot of accident reports in which the cvr has not been preserved, and would have been instrumental in the investigation - so in the interest of helping other aviators stay safe, I’d be in favor.
Plus, the technology to preserve more than an hour of audio has been available for decades.
They probably need a system in which crew cannot manipulate (record over or otherwise erase) data.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
They probably need a system in which crew cannot manipulate (record over or otherwise erase) data.
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But the ability to erase is the whole sticking point with the airline pilots, as I understand it. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not that they necessarily want to erase the data after an accident, but because, well, they're human and talk about things like what idiots the managers are, how the CEO is incompetent, etc. Contract negotiations. Working conditions. Pay. Add to that typical banter between two pilots (you know what I mean), and I can definitely see the reluctance to have all of their conversations recorded when the flight is routine.

Airline piloting is one of the original "remote work" environments. Among more traditional remote work, there are companies out there that monitor each keystroke on your computer, even when working from home. There are companies out there that require the laptop camera to be on any time you're at work, so they can check on you. And managers that watch your "dot" to see if it goes yellow or white during the day as opposed to staying green. It's not a stretch to imagine that if managers had access to everything said during the last several flights, some would use it for purposes that were not in the individual pilots' best interests.
 
RussR said:
But the ability to erase is the whole sticking point with the airline pilots, as I understand it. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not that they necessarily want to erase the data after an accident, but because, well, they're human and talk about things like what idiots the managers are, how the CEO is incompetent, etc. Contract negotiations. Working conditions. Pay. Add to that typical banter between two pilots (you know what I mean), and I can definitely see the reluctance to have all of their conversations recorded when the flight is routine.
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It would be sad to lose the ability to talk smack about the boss, the crew, & the working conditions. But I'm certain they would guarantee that only those needing to hear these recordings would do so ...
 
guest user said:
I really believe that would be enough.
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The cockpit video systems I've seen installed had no audio capability. They were more a "visual FDR" and basically showed only the instrument panel and the view out the windshield. Most dont want to deal with the audio side given the ongoing CVR BS.
 
Daleandee said:
It would be sad to lose the ability to talk smack about the boss, the crew, & the working conditions. But I'm certain they would guarantee that only those needing to hear these recordings would do so ...
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HAHAHA…. The FAA doing something to the pilot’s benefit on purpose?

That was supposed to be green right?
 
In 32 years of flying airplanes with a CVR, it never crossed my mind that it was even installed with the exception of the preflight testing of it. 1 hour or 24 makes no difference to me.
 
Daleandee said:
It would be sad to lose the ability to talk smack about the boss, the crew, & the working conditions. But I'm certain they would guarantee that only those needing to hear these recordings would do so ...
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Where have you been? Even the Supreme Court can't stop leaks of its decisions before official release.

Wait. Unless that was sarcasm.
 
CVR and FDR equipment is totally out dated obsolete technologies.

Why carry 'indestructible' recorders in an aircraft only to be lost or destroyed in an accident?

All aircraft could be transferring live data continuously. Turbine engine manufactures are receiving continuous engine data already.

Every Cellphone call, text, photo, location and more is instantly recorded in cloud servers. That data is stored indefinitely.
 
Klaus M said:
CVR and FDR equipment is totally out dated obsolete technologies.

Why carry 'indestructible' recorders in an aircraft only to be lost or destroyed in an accident?

All aircraft could be transferring live data continuously. Turbine engine manufactures are receiving continuous engine data already.

Every Cellphone call, text, photo, location and more is instantly recorded in cloud servers. That data is stored indefinitely.
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exercise for the student:

1) how much data is stored in the CVR and FDR?

2) How much would it cost to transfer that data to "the cloud"? (don't just think about flights over land, think about the datalink costs when oceanic)

3) How would you ensure that critical data is downlinked once aircraft systems start failing?

4) How would you ensure the integrity of the data?
 
Bob Noel said:
exercise for the student:

1) how much data is stored in the CVR and FDR?

2) How much would it cost to transfer that data to "the cloud"? (don't just think about flights over land, think about the datalink costs when oceanic)

3) How would you ensure that critical data is downlinked once aircraft systems start failing?

4) How would you ensure the integrity of the data?
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You make several good points. Remember when MH370 went missing? They still where collecting engine data for hours after loss of the transponders. Just didn't know where it was coming from at the time. Now they have many more satellites giving much better triangulation.

How is it that all the cellphone providers can do it?

Not only can our Cellphones download and store everything you can make unlimited video calls around the world for free. I do it all the time and many times through satellites. They have had internet services that are used to connect the airline passengers with the internet for quite a while now.

ADS-b IN and OUT comes with the tools already. Our air-taxi was involved with testing the texting and data transfer capabilities of ADS-b in 2006. Worked fine 18 years ago. The FAA ran out of money to continue the project is what we where told.
 
There's nothing about the Internet, or cloud, that's free. I don't know first made the observation, but it goes like this - if you don't know who's paying for it, you're the livestock.

Besides, there's no problem with retrieving flight data info that I'm aware of. The 23 more hours thing? The reference above was directly related to the I believe AA crew that crossed in front of a Delta flight on takeoff roll, and then more or less continued on with their day. I don't think the push to change it after that is a surprise to anyone. What I don't get is why nothing happened to the AA crew. Or maybe something did? And I don't mean punishment, more of a 'sort out wtf happened' thing so, you know, it's less likely to happen again.
 
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