FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Return

[RotorAndWing]

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS214448+02-Sep-2009+PRN20090902

 

[EdFred]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

I think anytime any government agency fails to win a case they should be ordered to pay the defendant's legal fees. And in this case, were I the judge, I would order them to pay 15 months of lost income as well.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Take note of the Lawyer that defended and won this for his client. Apparently he's been successful in previous cases. So much for the "FAA will always win" mentality of some.

 

[TMetzinger]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

I think that's the firm based at FDK - they've got LOTS of judgments against the FAA on their walls.

 

[Greebo]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Although I'm sure the defense attorney deserves MUCH credit, from reading the news article, it sounds like the FAA served said Defender an extremely low and slow pitch.

 

[mikea]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Take note of the Lawyer that defended and won this for his client. Apparently he's been successful in previous cases. So much for the "FAA will always win" mentality of some.

Not too hard. That OP is a press release from the lawyer.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Not too hard. That OP is a press release from the lawyer.

Still, Keeping that name in my Rolodex. Nice to see someone take on something like this and beat them.

 

[SkyHog]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

This is wrong. They lost millions of dollars in revenue because the FAA acted improperly.

The FAA should be paying millions of dollars in restitution, not $120,000.

 

[Dr. O]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Man, can you imagine the finger pointing and scapegoating going on within the FAA legal office... hooo weee baby!
The FAA normally will withdraw an action the instant the judge even looks cross, much less rules against them on a motion...
They have traditionally been gun shy about losing cases to the point of paranoia, even partial losses, because their attorneys know that the actions the FAA takes on a daily basis is unconstitutional in any other area of the law, truck, auto, bus, marine, you name it...
Some of the FAA senior attorneys will be sprucing up resumes even as we discuss this... Someone has to be the goat for the FAA being caught in lies (again)...

denny-o

 

[Pi1otguy]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

This is wrong. They lost millions of dollars in revenue because the FAA acted improperly.

The FAA should be paying millions of dollars in restitution, not $120,000.

Plus lost clients & outstanding debts they may have absorbed over 15 months. I dare say they're starting over.

 

[Jack Spectre]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Folks, this is why the government needs to be kept on a tight leash. They have the power to ruin people and businesses and be home in time for corn flakes.

Federal bureaucracies have WAY too much power, and this has been the case for a long time. The FAA should be prohibited from pulling a certificate until they prove their case and run out all the appeals.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

I think anytime any government agency fails to win a case they should be ordered to pay the defendant's legal fees. And in this case, were I the judge, I would order them to pay 15 months of lost income as well.

I've thought that in the past, as well, and think the idea has a lot of merit to it. And, in many cases, it's already true - for instance, in a civil rights lawsuit, the government often has attorney fees awarded against it when the plaintiff wins.

At the same time, it has some drawbacks, as well.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

This is wrong. They lost millions of dollars in revenue because the FAA acted improperly.

The FAA should be paying millions of dollars in restitution, not $120,000.

It's really a question of legal procedure. In this case, what was being litigated was this outfit's supposed violations. As a rule, a judge is limited to addressing, and remedying, what is in front of him. The issue of the FAA's wrongful action and its impact on the outfit's business - beyond attorney fees incurred in defending what seems to be an illegitimate prosecution - wasn't before the judge.

The issue you're raising - and I agree that it's a legitimate issue - is for a civil lawsuit by this company against the FAA or the US government.

 

[EdFred]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

The issue you're raising - and I agree that it's a legitimate issue - is for a civil lawsuit by this company against the FAA or the US government.

Which then incurs more attorney fees...
Of course you being an attorney, I can see why you would be for this.

 

[Bob Bement]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Did you notice the good lawyer, at one time, was an FAA Lawyer?

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Which then incurs more attorney fees...
Of course you being an attorney, I can see why you would be for this.

Yup.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

What were they accused of?

 

[steingar]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Take note of the Lawyer that defended and won this for his client. Apparently he's been successful in previous cases. So much for the "FAA will always win" mentality of some.

The FAA loosing in front of the NTSB is very, very rare. John Yodice just had a column in the AOPA magazine to this effect.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

The FAA loosing in front of the NTSB is very, very rare. John Yodice just had a column in the AOPA magazine to this effect.

Just so everyone knows, that's not because the deck is stacked in favor of the FAA.

Instead, it's because the government has the sole discretion over what cases it decides to charge. Basically, if I'm a prosecutor (be it in state court for crimes, federal court for crimes, or for an adminstrative agency enforcing regulations) I have carte blanche in deciding what I want to charge, who I want to charge, when I want to charge, and if I want to charge.

What that means is that I get to pick and choose my cases, and if I think I'm going to lose, why in the bleep would I ever charge something? In other words, my record ought to be practically 100%, being as I get to decide what goes to court.

Overall, the U.S. government has very competent attorneys working for it. Every now and then, they'll NTAC something pretty well, but for the most part, they win.

 

[Kelvin]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Tap Tap Tap Tap...David...isn't this the legal equivalent of stacking the deck?

Just so everyone knows, that's not because the deck is stacked in favor of the FAA.

Instead, it's because the government has the sole discretion over what cases it decides to charge. Basically, if I'm a prosecutor (be it in state court for crimes, federal court for crimes, or for an adminstrative agency enforcing regulations) I have carte blanche in deciding what I want to charge, who I want to charge, when I want to charge, and if I want to charge.

What that means is that I get to pick and choose my cases, and if I think I'm going to lose, why in the bleep would I ever charge something? In other words, my record ought to be practically 100%, being as I get to decide what goes to court.

Overall, the U.S. government has very competent attorneys working for it. Every now and then, they'll NTAC something pretty well, but for the most part, they win.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Tap Tap Tap Tap...David...isn't this the legal equivalent of stacking the deck?

No. Stacking the deck would be having a decision-maker that was biased to find things in my favor, or presenting false evidence, or doing something to sway the outcome in such a manner that the outcome isn't based on the evidence/law.

What I'm getting at is that I only take the cases I'm guaranteed to win to trial.

To make a sports analogy, I'm not paying the referees - I'm just scheduling the really crappy teams.

 

[Palmpilot]

Re: FAA Ordered to Pay More Than $120,000 for Attorney Fees and Expenses Following Re

Tap Tap Tap Tap...David...isn't this the legal equivalent of stacking the deck?

Seems to me it's actually beneficial to pilots, because it means they don't have to pay legal fees defending weak cases.