FAA launches investigation after two planes nearly collide at JFK airport

I notice that "cancel takeoff clearance" was misquoted as "cancel takeoff plans" in the CNBC article. (I confirmed the correct phraseology by listening to the recording.)
 
Kudos to those deserving!
 
man, that would be one awkward 7 hours across the NATs. They also just recouped the entire nut they've spent on union dues thus far, in a single trip. :D
 
I watched a youtube that had the tower call. AA106 was cleared to cross 31L at kilo, they crossed 4L at Juliet. The female voice from AA106 did read back the crossing clearance, but it was kind of hard to understand her. Looks ike crew error to me. Ground could have maybe stopped AA106 earlier, as they missed the turn onto kilo, but the taxiways are pretty tight in that corner.
 
I don't know how you could understand that controller unless you already knew what he was going to say. The tone and speed of transmissions changed dramatically for the better after the incursion. Maybe if they spoke that way all the time....
 
bflynn said:
another source I read said they were given a clearance to cross 31L. They did not read back the clearance and tower did not demand it. Instead, they crossed 4 in front of the takeoff aircraft.
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It sounds like they were told to LUAW at KE for 31L, which is approximately where they were (according to the video above), but he read back LUAW at KT, and they commenced taxiing to the end of 31L, which took them across 4L.

For those who know, is a KE departure common when both runways are in use? Perhaps this crew was unfamiliar with the airport.
 
There's audio of the taxi clearance. They were initially told to taxi on Bravo to 4L hold short of Kilo. Approaching Kilo they were told to cross 31 on Kilo.

To do that requires a right turn on Kilo. They didn't turn, they crossed straight over 4L. This is a pilot error. The controller terminology isn't quite right to my opinion, but still not so bad as it explains what the pilots did.

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2213/00610AD.PDF
 
flyingron said:
There's audio of the taxi clearance. They were initially told to taxi on Bravo to 4L hold short of Kilo. Approaching Kilo they were told to cross 31 on Kilo.

To do that requires a right turn on Kilo. They didn't turn, they crossed straight over 4L. This is a pilot error. The controller terminology isn't quite right to my opinion, but still not so bad as it explains what the pilots did.

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2213/00610AD.PDF
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That's what I heard in the audio as well. I didn't find the controller that hard to understand, but the read back from the pilot was. The controller maybe should have had her read back the taxi clearance again, but in the end I think it's pilot error.
 
My post above has the interaction between ground/tower and the 777. I think the ATC clearance left a lot to be desired. The controller mumbled the word "at", but the pilot read it back correctly. My issue with the instruction is that, correctly or incorrectly, it could be interpreted as hold on bravo at kilo, which is what this crew apparently did. I'm a little rusty on what ATC is required to say, but I think a more appropriate clearance would have been "taxi bravo, kilo, hold short rwy 31L". I thought that was supposed to be standard, my delta does it in crossing situations, but that may just be a regional thing.

I would like to know if the runway had been changed after this crew got their atis. I think what happened is that both of these pilots had it in their heads that rwy 31L was the active. Even after they screwed up and almost caused a huge accident, they continued to taxi to 31L, they had no clue until the male pilot asked if they had been cleared across the runway and the controller explained that 4L was active, they were cleared across 31L. I think that is when it clicked for them, right before they were brashered.

The bottom line is the female pilot read the crossing clearance correctly, then they crossed the wrong runway. Their heads weren't in the game, I can't imagine this will go well for them.
 
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flyingron said:
They didn't turn, they crossed straight over 4L.
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It's not even straight over 4L - they had to follow Bravo around to the left, make the right onto Juliet, and *then* cross 4L. To me that's telling, as it makes it less likely that they simply missed a taxiway and crossed an active runway - as @PaulS said I think they all (there were three of them up there) had 31L on the brain and the expectation bias led to the mistake. That's just my opinion of course, although I'm incidentally in a position to perhaps glean a little more information about what happened as it comes to light. We'll see.
 
Not go well? As in loss of employment? Nah, they'll be fine.
A trip to the sim and a bit of a mea culpa tour on the next CRM/CaptAAin upgrade class in Dallas? Sure, but that's where WB pilots work anyways, when they're not going non-current on you know, actually flying airplanes. :D

This went as well as it could have gone imo. Pulling a Tenerife body count in 2023 with that many bells and whistles today, would not be a good look, and certainly a bad day. Not just for them, but for US 121 in general. Forget insurance for all of us down the line too, that one would make Kobe, the Max and the Florida Hurricane Season combined look like charity work. We all got lucky here, the abort speed/timing made the incursion a nothingburger. As they say, better lucky than good.

ETA: Buddies at work showed me a compare and contrast of LHR vs JFK surface lighting. We're such a basket case of domestic disinvestment. Digressing.
 
Lindberg said:
For those who know, is a KE departure common when both runways are in use? Perhaps this crew was unfamiliar with the airport.
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31L/KE is used based off of routing. If you’re filed over a certain fix, you can expect 31L/KE for departure per the ATIS.
 
PaulS said:
The bottom line is the female pilot read the crossing clearance correctly, then they crossed the wrong runway. Their heads weren't in the game, I can't imagine this will go well for them.
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Meh. They’ll be fine. Mistakes happen and thankfully this didn’t end up worse than it could have. Always a good reminder to stay vigilant and alert.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Not go well? As in loss of employment? Nah, they'll be fine.
A trip to the sim and a bit of a mea culpa tour on the next CRM/CaptAAin upgrade class in Dallas? Sure, but that's where WB pilots work anyways, when they're not going non-current on you know, actually flying airplanes. :D

This went as well as it could have gone imo. Pulling a Tenerife body count in 2023 with that many bells and whistles today, would not be a good look, and certainly a bad day. Not just for them, but for US 121 in general. Forget insurance for all of us down the line too, that one would make Kobe, the Max and the Florida Hurricane Season combined look like charity work. We all got lucky here, the abort speed/timing made the incursion a nothingburger. As they say, better lucky than good.

ETA: Buddies at work showed me a compare and contrast of LHR vs JFK surface lighting. We're such a basket case of domestic disinvestment. Digressing.
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Well I hope you are correct. I was surprised at how long it took from the time the controller knew things were going bad to calling the abort. I am assuming that the guy swearing was the controller, could have been the pilots.
 
Very clear explanation here with radio transcripts, although no actual audio and no timing of messages.

"Kennedy Ground; American 106 Heavy, cross Runway 31 Left at Kilo."

"I have a number for you."

There are also *rumours* on web that it was some kind of line/upgrade check?

https://fallows.substack.com/p/that-runway-incursion-at-jfk-what
 
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Spring Ford said:
Very clear explanation here with radio transcripts, although no actual audio and no timing of messages.

"Kennedy Ground; American 106 Heavy, cross Runway 31 Left at Kilo."

And the pilot turned left at Kilo. - OOPS! I know it's 'Runway 31 Left'.

"I have a number for you."

There are also *rumours* on web that it was some kind of line/upgrade check?

https://fallows.substack.com/p/that-runway-incursion-at-jfk-what

https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc8bcaaf5-8b79-4c20-a8c3-9454ce9708d8_1812x616.png
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I don’t think that graphic is correct. AAL was taxiing southeastbound on Bravo, then instead of turning right on Kilo and crossing 31L as cleared, they stayed on Bravo as it turns left (northeastbound), then a quick right onto Juliet (southeastbound again), crossed 4L and continued as if they’d been cleared to 31L.

Juliet is almost like an extension of Alpha or a slight left jog of Bravo (A and B are parallel).
 
There may be a bit of confusion imparted by the taxiway layout at legacy airports like JFK, SFO, ORD, and some others where there are continuously-named inner and outer parallel taxiways surrounding a multi-axis or round-ish ramp. I suppose it’s easier for a controller to say “follow Alpha all the way around” than give three or four turns. But in this case, a right turn from Bravo can lead either to the SW or the SE, within the space of a few hundred feet. Still on the pilots to recognize where they are, but “corners” like this may play a part.
 
Lindberg said:
It sounds like they were told to LUAW at KE for 31L, which is approximately where they were (according to the video above), but he read back LUAW at KT, and they commenced taxiing to the end of 31L, which took them across 4L.

For those who know, is a KE departure common when both runways are in use? Perhaps this crew was unfamiliar with the airport.
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I think that LUAW on 31L at KE was a different plane. AAL185? This from my memory of the video in post #10.
 
Flying Keys said:
There may be a bit of confusion imparted by the taxiway layout at legacy airports like JFK, SFO, ORD, and some others where there are continuously-named inner and outer parallel taxiways surrounding a multi-axis or round-ish ramp. I suppose it’s easier for a controller to say “follow Alpha all the way around” than give three or four turns. But in this case, a right turn from Bravo can lead either to the SW or the SE, within the space of a few hundred feet. Still on the pilots to recognize where they are, but “corners” like this may play a part.
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Just looked at the Airport Diagram. JFK doesn't have Hot Spots. Maybe this will become their first one.
 
Sure seems like a pilot error, and ground controller is pretty busy. That said, it might have been possible to spot AA106 out of position prior to issuing the clearance to cross 31L. That sure is a lot of if's, and I'm not sure what the official duties of ground controller are...so perhaps that's an unreasonable expectation. Dunno.
 
I would be interesting to hear the entire ground calls from the time AAL called for taxi. Perhaps they were initially cleared for 31L but the cross 31L at Kilo instruction is pretty clear.
 
farmrjohn said:
I would be interesting to hear the entire ground calls from the time AAL called for taxi. Perhaps they were initially cleared for 31L but the cross 31L at Kilo instruction is pretty clear.
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Their initial taxi instructions where runway 4L, taxi via B, hold short of K. The only mistake I heard was that the F/O did not readback the departure runway and the controller didn't make sure that she did.

Later, they were instructed to cross runway 31L on K and that instruction was readback correctly, it wasn't followed.
 
I saw no comment on what was visible out the rh cockpit window, was the vis low? Hill? Night time? (Does anyone even bother to look anymore?)
 
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