FAA FOIA request pilot enforcement records

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NYCHudson464

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NYCHudson464
Has anyone ever FOIA'd pilot records for an investigation or enforcement action. I'm not sure what all to request or how to phrase my request. I can figure out how to make the FOIA request just not the exact records to request other than generic investigation records re: my CFI and these incidents.

I recently reported my CFI for several outrageous violations of FAR's (subject for a separate post). The FSDO investigator interviewed me then followed up with a form letter that that the situation required further investigation. When he called me he stated that is a form letter but after talking to the CFI everything was resolved. He couldn't tell me what that means citing the CFI's privacy. Basically, I want to know what actions they took or what the CFI admitted. Of course the CFI/owner of the flight school denied everything when I confronted them about the incidents.

Thank you for any belp with the FOIA request.
 
popcorn-watching-tv.gif
 
NYCHudson464 said:
Has anyone ever FOIA'd pilot records for an investigation or enforcement action. I'm not sure what all to request or how to phrase my request. I can figure out how to make the FOIA request just not the exact records to request other than generic investigation records re: my CFI and these incidents.

I recently reported my CFI for several outrageous violations of FAR's (subject for a separate post). The FSDO investigator interviewed me then followed up with a form letter that that the situation required further investigation. When he called me he stated that is a form letter but after talking to the CFI everything was resolved. He couldn't tell me what that means citing the CFI's privacy. Basically, I want to know what actions they took or what the CFI admitted. Of course the CFI/owner of the flight school denied everything when I confronted them about the incidents.

Thank you for any belp with the FOIA request.
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The records you want are not covered under FOIA.
 
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RadialGal said:
Wow talk about chicken s#it..........good luck; looks like the feds found the real problem.
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What do you mean? Three of the leading causes of fatal GA accidents are involved here. Are you calling me Chicken **** without the courage to actually say it?
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
This is all I got for you...


No idea if that would cover it, but looks like the right part to investigate to find out.

Let us know when you post that other thread detailing the outrageous FAR violations...
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Thank you and I will let you know.
Preview: VFR into IMC, Aerobatics in non-aerobatic aircraft and runway incursion for starters :popcorn:
 
My advice: do as the song says, “Let it go, let it go”

What difference does it make what the FAA did?…you reported, they investigated. Going beyond that in my opinion only illustrates your own failings…instead, maybe look up something called the “serenity prayer”.

.
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It can't hurt to make the request and see what happens. Something like "All complaints, allegations, and records related to investigations of individual xyz". It is likely that the FAA would claim an FOIA exemption: "Information that, if disclosed, would invade another individual’s personal privacy."

I am not sure what you expect to have happened in your case. The FAA probably spoke to the CFI involved, told them what was alleged, they likely denied it. There was no proof so the FAA told them if it is true, they better knock it off and closed the case.
 
NYCHudson464 said:
Preview: VFR into IMC, Aerobatics in non-aerobatic aircraft and runway incursion for starters :popcorn:
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If this is indeed true then should one ignore this? Could this reporting possibly prevent an incident like the recent dumpster fire of a CFI that let his student fly the two of them into a thunderstorm and to an awful death? In my profession if I suspect child abuse/neglect in one of my patients I will be held legally responsible to report it or risk jail time, sanctions/loss of board license. Why should a dangerous CFI get a pass?

wait a bit while I don my old Nomex driving suit. ;)
 
robin ardoin said:
If this is indeed true then should one ignore this? Could this reporting possibly prevent an incident like the recent dumpster fire of a CFI that let his student fly the two of them into a thunderstorm and to an awful death? In my profession if I suspect child abuse/neglect in one of my patients I will be held legally responsible to report it or risk jail time, sanctions/loss of board license. Why should a dangerous CFI get a pass?

wait a bit while I don my old Nomex driving suit. ;)
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I think there's a tendency when someone sees a post like this to think there are some sour grapes or some semi-related agenda involved. It would be difficult to imagine an even partially verifiable (like ADS-B tracks) report like this being ignored. I've seen the FAA treat even ridiculous reports with serious investigation, right @SixPapaCharlie?
 
robin ardoin said:
If this is indeed true then should one ignore this? Could this reporting possibly prevent an incident like the recent dumpster fire of a CFI that let his student fly the two of them into a thunderstorm and to an awful death? In my profession if I suspect child abuse/neglect in one of my patients I will be held legally responsible to report it or risk jail time, sanctions/loss of board license. Why should a dangerous CFI get a pass?

wait a bit while I don my old Nomex driving suit. ;)
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I believe he said the FAA has already investigated, the OP just doesn't want to accept the outcome.

The FAA receives lots of "reports" against individuals, both signed and anonymous. They are all investigated. In most instances the alleged misconduct turns out not to be true or has no basis in fact, people just trying to use the agency to get back at someone over something personal.

The OP hasn't told us the whole story. When one starts peeling the onion, there are many layers and the truth starts emerging.
 
NYCHudson464 said:
Has anyone ever FOIA'd pilot records for an investigation or enforcement action. I'm not sure what all to request or how to phrase my request. I can figure out how to make the FOIA request just not the exact records to request other than generic investigation records re: my CFI and these incidents.

I recently reported my CFI for several outrageous violations of FAR's (subject for a separate post). The FSDO investigator interviewed me then followed up with a form letter that that the situation required further investigation. When he called me he stated that is a form letter but after talking to the CFI everything was resolved. He couldn't tell me what that means citing the CFI's privacy. Basically, I want to know what actions they took or what the CFI admitted. Of course the CFI/owner of the flight school denied everything when I confronted them about the incidents.

Thank you for any belp with the FOIA request.
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You reported your concern, which is the right thing to do. The FAA investigated and did something. So the matter is closed as far as you are concerned. I don't see why you need to know the outcome, unless you are going to be directly impacted by this outcome, or you were a victim of a crime and you are afraid he is going to come after you. If so, call law enforcement. Otherwise just go about your business.
 
NYCHudson464 said:
Has anyone ever FOIA'd pilot records for an investigation or enforcement action. I'm not sure what all to request or how to phrase my request. I can figure out how to make the FOIA request just not the exact records to request other than generic investigation records re: my CFI and these incidents.

I recently reported my CFI for several outrageous violations of FAR's (subject for a separate post). The FSDO investigator interviewed me then followed up with a form letter that that the situation required further investigation. When he called me he stated that is a form letter but after talking to the CFI everything was resolved. He couldn't tell me what that means citing the CFI's privacy. Basically, I want to know what actions they took or what the CFI admitted. Of course the CFI/owner of the flight school denied everything when I confronted them about the incidents.

Thank you for any belp with the FOIA request.
Click to expand...
You live in a country where you can murder someone and not be arrested for months and then not go to trial for a year and you expect the govt to take action on an unsubstantiated complaint for a violation of a civil (non-criminal) rule in how long?
 
nothing wrong with morbid curiosity. FOIA is a legal thing, go for it. come back here and tell us the deets though. This thread is useless otherwise. :thumbsup:
 
NYCHudson464 said:
What do you mean? Three of the leading causes of fatal GA accidents are involved here. Are you calling me Chicken **** without the courage to actually say it?
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I am not calling you chicken, but you are misinformed.

Runway incursions are not in the top 10 causes of fatal aircraft accidents.

Continued VFR into IMC accidents involve non instrument rated pilots. Unless your previous CFI is light sport, he is instrument rated and by your account he intended to enter IMC.

Here is the top ten list:

1. Loss of Control Inflight
2. Controlled Flight Into Terrain
3. System Component Failure – Powerplant
4. Fuel Related
5. Unknown or Undetermined
6. System Component Failure – Non-Powerplant
7. Unintended Flight In IMC
8. Midair Collisions
9. Low-Altitude Operations
10. Other
 
Clip4 said:
Continued VFR into IMC accidents involve non instrument rated pilots.
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I've seen reports (I think including Nall) that as many as a third of VFR into IMC accidents involve instrument rated pilots.

and, assuming all this actually happened, I'd be surprised if there weren't enough clues to let the student know they were operating under a flight plan, even if the instructor never briefed the student on the lesson plan for that day.
 
I love it when the student knows more than the instructor and then tries to tell all of these people with all of these hours to include professional pilots that he knows best about aviation safety. Let’s just say I feel bad for your CFI and I’m glad you were never my student.

Enforcement action on a CFI by a student? Unbelievable.
 
I can tell you from personal experience, some people have no problem using law enforcement to try and settle the most petty gripes. From embellishment of perceived wrongs to flat out lying. The desire for revenge is a strong motivator. I may be wrong, but the OP strikes me as the type. I’d bet the CFI and school are glad to be rid of him/her. My opinion. Your mileage may vary.
 
hindsight2020 said:
nothing wrong with morbid curiosity. FOIA is a legal thing, go for it. come back here and tell us the deets though. This thread is useless otherwise. :thumbsup:
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Yes, but that won't prevent peopel from discussing the topic, then wandering onto the next topic.
 
Is they said, them said, more appropriate now? I can't keep up.
 
Doc Holliday said:
You can start by reviewing Order 2150.3C
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Actually, after having reviewed that document, I believe that all documents are sealed to the public WHILE the investigation is ongoing, but are subject to FOIA request after that. I could be misreading something, but that’s what it seems to say.
 
flyingpreacher said:
Actually, after having reviewed that document, I believe that all documents are sealed to the public WHILE the investigation is ongoing, but are subject to FOIA request after that. I could be misreading something, but that’s what it seems to say.
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There are documents that don’t fall under FOIA, especially what the OP is looking for.
 
So many questions....
Details on the alleged offenses would be nice otherwise we're left to think this is a witch hunt
OP is in his 50s...one would think OP is no stranger to uncomfortable conversations/questions by now
CFI likely significantly younger? OP doesn't like being told his assumptions are wrong by a younger person?
Is this occurring at a flight school? Did OP talk to Chief Instructor? Another CFI even?
Does OP currently hold a certificate? As one indicated above, being accused of spins when actually doing turning stalls is lack of knowledge/experience.
If not certificated, how many hours? Has he reviewed ACS to check CFI actions against standards for sought certificate?
Could OP be more specific about "IMC?" Are we talking full soup or did they go through a couple light cumulus that could barely be considered clouds?
Barring all that, OP could have just told CFI "I don't feel we work well together. Could you connect me with another CFI?" But instead, the regulatory authority was called and potentially put the CFI's career and livelihood at risk.
 
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