FAA DUI statement tips?

S

Scoma

Guest
I've read a few threads here and found some good info, I've obviously already sent in the notification that my driving privileges were suspended(not sure I really had to as it was out of state and my in state license hasn't been suspended but that's neither here nor there.) I renewed my class 2 medical in March answering yes to the question about DUi arrest but just got a letter asking for some more info (personal statement, etc.) just want to run my personal statement by someone before sending it to see if I should add or remove anything. Any help is appreciated! The case is still pending, court date has been pushed back to October now.

Minus dates, names etc here is what I have so far.

To whom it may concern,

I was driving my rock crawler (off highway vehicle) through some sand dunes in the sand hollow state park and was arrested for DUI with Alcohol over .05 and an open container (beer) in the vehicle. I was in Washington county Utah on Sand Mountain Comp hill, outside city limits and about 45 minutes from the nearest paved road. A friend and I were driving through the sand dunes looking for a rock crawling trail nearby when his buggy started to overheat, so we pulled over for a bit and made the unfortunate decision to crack a beer while his buggy cooled down. We were being watched from binoculars from a dune over and when we stopped again next the officers came up to us in their unmarked Polaris RZR and questioned then arrested us. They took us to the entrance station, gave us a blood test (the result of mine was a .13), then took us back to our camp and released us. I would never drink and fly, and will never drink and drive on or off road again. This has been, and will be the only alcohol incident I’ve had. As a result of this arrest my driving privileges in the state of Utah were suspended for 120 days starting on 11/19/2019. They are now reinstated.

I started drinking in my early 20’s (I am now 37) but I have never been an everyday drinker (I often go weeks or even months without a drink) and rarely more than a couple drinks when I do drink. At the time of the incident I had a few beers at camp and the one we were arrested with. After the arrest I quit drinking altogether for about 3 months, and now and in the future I have been and will only drink in moderation, and never drive any vehicle after drinking for at least 8 hours. This has been (and will be) the only issue I’ve ever had with alcohol or drugs.

I have never been to a treatment or recovery program.

Regards,
 
Just my opinion but it comes off like you don’t think you deserve it at all and it’s all the arresting officers fault. I understand that it is an extreme case for a DUI and believe me when I say the FAA DOES NOT CARE. A DUI is a DUI. I personally am going through the HIMS process and I take full responsibility for my wrong doings and am 100% accountable for what I did which is what the FAA wants to see IMO. Most likely you will get a substance abuse verdict for which is better than dependence and a 2 year HIMS type program to get your medical back. It’s a long expensive and tiring process but if you love flying like I do you will do anything to get back in the air and it will all be worth it when you line up on that runway and go full throttle again. I’ll let the expert chime in but that is my opinion from someone going through it. Good luck and don’t give up!
 
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I agree the tone of the letter to me was “ I was entrapped” cracked a beer and .13 is the take of two citys. but that’s the story I guess. I venture to say that you should probably get an aviation attorney and HIMS AME on staff to weather this. The details in the letter are the hanging moments and not really necessary IMO.

But my advise costs what you paid-nothing and is worth about the same.
 
Good input guys, I definitely don't want to hang myself out to dry, and admit I was in the wrong and take responsibility for my actions. I haven't lost my medical yet, they just want this additional info within 60 days. I fly for a living so I really cant afford to lose my ability to do so. If it means I need to give up drinking entirely I can, and will no problem at all. I was just trying to lay out the situation, not your "normal" dui by any means. I have emailed Dr. Bruce Chien about this as well, and did join AOPA (after the fact unfortunately) but haven't contacted them about legal advice yet. Anyone else you guys would recommend or should I go through them? I have a normal lawyer fighting the conviction, but he's not an aviation attorney so not sure he'd be much help here.
 
Scoma said:
Good input guys, I definitely don't want to hang myself out to dry, and admit I was in the wrong and take responsibility for my actions. I haven't lost my medical yet, they just want this additional info within 60 days. I fly for a living so I really cant afford to lose my ability to do so. If it means I need to give up drinking entirely I can, and will no problem at all. I was just trying to lay out the situation, not your "normal" dui by any means. I have emailed Dr. Bruce Chien about this as well, and did join AOPA (after the fact unfortunately) but haven't contacted them about legal advice yet. Anyone else you guys would recommend or should I go through them? I have a normal lawyer fighting the conviction, but he's not an aviation attorney so not sure he'd be much help here.
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Personally I tried going the aviation lawyer route and in the end it was just a waste of money. A good HIMS AME is what you need and don’t send the FAA anything until you get one. Regardless of what happens in the case for your DUI you were arrested which under 18V doesn’t take into account if you were guilty or not so the toothpaste is out of the tube type of thing. I would start getting your ducks in a row, stop drinking, look up AA meetings attend if able, take attendance, start building your sober resume now would be my advice. DM if you have any additional questions or need any advice that you wouldn’t want on a public forum. B Chien usually responds on here and he is the expert but that is just my personal advice as I have been in your shoes. Good luck and just know there is a light at the end of tunnel.
 
Scoma said:
Good input guys, I definitely don't want to hang myself out to dry, and admit I was in the wrong and take responsibility for my actions. I haven't lost my medical yet, they just want this additional info within 60 days. I fly for a living so I really cant afford to lose my ability to do so. If it means I need to give up drinking entirely I can, and will no problem at all. I was just trying to lay out the situation, not your "normal" dui by any means. I have emailed Dr. Bruce Chien about this as well, and did join AOPA (after the fact unfortunately) but haven't contacted them about legal advice yet. Anyone else you guys would recommend or should I go through them? I have a normal lawyer fighting the conviction, but he's not an aviation attorney so not sure he'd be much help here.
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I will say that It sounds like a crazy story. I didn’t know you could operate a ATV with a beer or five on board and get in trouble. I think if told as truth it’s crazy that they were watching you and “pulled” you over.
 
Throw the letter away. Get into a reputable alcohol treatment program and finish the program. The FAA will want a report from the program. Either that or give up flying.
 
benyflyguy said:
I will say that It sounds like a crazy story. I didn’t know you could operate a ATV with a beer or five on board and get in trouble. I think if told as truth it’s crazy that they were watching you and “pulled” you over.
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It probably has a great deal to do with where he was riding, who's land it was on. Probably like getting a DUI on a boat. No roads, but it still requires safe operating decisions.
 
Sporadic binges are as concerning to the FAA as someone who has a drink everyday. Once you're on the FAA radar for alcohol abuse, they'll expect complete abstinence.
 
Clearofclouds12344 said:
Personally I tried going the aviation lawyer route and in the end it was just a waste of money. A good HIMS AME is what you need and don’t send the FAA anything until you get one.
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This. This. THIS.

I get a significant number of calls to advise on how to handle that old DUI. In 16 years I have come across exactly one in which I didn't give my standard advice (that was before there was a HIMS program and there was something which needed legal attention).

"You want a consult with a HIMS AME. You have a medical issue. You do not want to turn a medical issue into a legal issue."

I'm sorry you had that experience with a lawyer. I don't (want to) know what other issues may have existed, but it sounds like the initial advice could have been a bit better.
 
Listen, throw yourself on the sword and take "FULL RESPONSIBILTY". Say this to FAA. I'm seeking couseling and getting a full evaluation from a Substance Abuse Professional and will follow thier advice and my drinking days are over. Period! Don't contend I was on private property on the moon driving a go cart. The other responder was right the FAA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT LED TO THE DUI!!! Just say you were wrong and will never happen again and MAYBE just MAYBE the FAA will give you a pass on the first one. But to be on safe side contact Dr. Chien.
 
The letter sounds unprofessional. I would start over.
 
Scoma said:
I've read a few threads here and found some good info, I've obviously already sent in the notification that my driving privileges were suspended(not sure I really had to as it was out of state and my in state license hasn't been suspended but that's neither here nor there.) I renewed my class 2 medical in March answering yes to the question about DUi arrest but just got a letter asking for some more info (personal statement, etc.) just want to run my personal statement by someone before sending it to see if I should add or remove anything. Any help is appreciated! The case is still pending, court date has been pushed back to October now.

Minus dates, names etc here is what I have so far.

To whom it may concern,

I was driving my rock crawler (off highway vehicle) through some sand dunes in the sand hollow state park and was arrested for DUI with Alcohol over .05 and an open container (beer) in the vehicle. I was in Washington county Utah on Sand Mountain Comp hill, outside city limits and about 45 minutes from the nearest paved road. A friend and I were driving through the sand dunes looking for a rock crawling trail nearby when his buggy started to overheat, so we pulled over for a bit and made the unfortunate decision to crack a beer while his buggy cooled down. We were being watched from binoculars from a dune over and when we stopped again next the officers came up to us in their unmarked Polaris RZR and questioned then arrested us. They took us to the entrance station, gave us a blood test (the result of mine was a .13), then took us back to our camp and released us. I would never drink and fly, and will never drink and drive on or off road again. This has been, and will be the only alcohol incident I’ve had. As a result of this arrest my driving privileges in the state of Utah were suspended for 120 days starting on 11/19/2019. They are now reinstated.

I started drinking in my early 20’s (I am now 37) but I have never been an everyday drinker (I often go weeks or even months without a drink) and rarely more than a couple drinks when I do drink. At the time of the incident I had a few beers at camp and the one we were arrested with. After the arrest I quit drinking altogether for about 3 months, and now and in the future I have been and will only drink in moderation, and never drive any vehicle after drinking for at least 8 hours. This has been (and will be) the only issue I’ve ever had with alcohol or drugs.

I have never been to a treatment or recovery program.

Regards,
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You are now officially a 'non-drinker'. It's easy, I've not had a drink in thirty-three years. You may discover that your friends are a bunch of drunken fools; I did, I now have better friends.
 
I agree with everyone else, go seek the counsel of an AME that has worked with a pilot in a similar predicament and the FAA before. I may be wrong, but you are at least lucky you were < 0.15% because I believe >= 0.15% the real nightmare begins.

If you insist on running with this yourself I would throw that letter in the trash and start over. Make sure you take ownership, admit your fault and lack of judgement and grovel as much as you can.

Unfortunately it's too late for you but if in the future someone else finds themselves in a similar situation and reads this thread, DO NOT schedule a medical until you thoroughly understand the process, what options you have and have a plan in place.
 
Lots of good advice in this thread.

But to your original question, the letter reads in every other sentence a reason this is no big deal or not my fault. That may or may not be how you feel and intend it to be conveyed, but yeah try again. The take-away from the letter needs to be "I showed poor judgment", "I am responsible", etc. Oh, and get rid of the term "a few beers." They'll think you're a morning drinker for sure.
 
KeepWatch said:
Oh, and get rid of the term "a few beers."
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Mostly because no one believes it.

A million years ago, I represented a guy in a trial. He was originally charged with a DUI-Alcohol. Wound up "passing" the breathalyzer - not zero, but below the minimum to be charged. The trial was on a different charge. Part of the cross went like this:

Q: When you stopped him, he told you he only had two beers, correct?
A: Yes.
Q. How many times have you heard that?
A: (Chuckling). All the time.
Q: Was this the first time it was true?
A: (Thinking for a moment and then laughing) It was!
 
I don't know what state you are in Mark, but there's no "minimum to be charged." The "legal limit" is only the amount where you are presumed intoxicated. You can be charged and convicted with other evidence of intoxication with lower readings.
 
flyingron said:
I don't know what state you are in Mark, but there's no "minimum to be charged." The "legal limit" is only the amount where you are presumed intoxicated. You can be charged and convicted with other evidence of intoxication with lower readings.
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I mispoke about "charged."

but I said "a million years ago." It's at least 28. At least at that time, the statute specifically said that if the breath test was below a certain level, the suspect was to be released.

Now, "released" referred to the arrest. It doesn't mean can't charge. So, the case could theoretically go forward anyway. But not too likely.
 
idahoflier said:
I agree with everyone else, go seek the counsel of an AME that has worked with a pilot in a similar predicament and the FAA before. I may be wrong, but you are at least lucky you were < 0.15% because I believe >= 0.15% the real nightmare begins.
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I doubt the FAA will ignore the fact the OP's BAC was over two and a half times the Utah legal limit. A pilot whose job is flying committed this egregious violation, and it will raise legitimate questions about his decision making ability in the cockpit.

The OP's draft explanation is just a litany of excuses, and his statement that the incident occurred "outside city limits and about 45 minutes from the nearest paved road" and insignificant three month abstinence speaks volumes about his casual attitude towards what is a very serious incident in the eyes of the FAA. It won't play well in OKC.
 
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3393RP said:
The OP's draft explanation is just a litany of excuses, and his statement the incident occurred "outside city limits and about 45 minutes from the nearest paved road" and insignificant three month abstinence speaks volumes about his casual attitude towards what is a very serious incident in the eyes of the FAA. It won't play well in OKC.
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THIS...:(
Doesn’t “get it”.
 
bbchien said:
THIS...:(
Doesn’t “get it”.
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In my experience dealing with people in various types of trouble, most are (1) not great wordsmiths and (2) have difficulty "owning" (to use the modern term) their mistakes.

That's not a value judgment. It's a practical reality of the human condition even for people who do "get it" and have the best of intentions.
 
3393RP said:
A pilot whose job is flying committed this egregious violation, and it will raise legitimate questions about his decision making ability in the cockpit./QUOTE]

How do you know he is employed as a professional pilot?
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midlifeflyer said:
In my experience dealing with people in various types of trouble, most are (1) not great wordsmiths and (2) have difficulty "owning" (to use the modern term) their mistakes.

That's not a value judgment. It's a practical reality of the human condition even for people who do "get it" and have the best of intentions.
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And you are to the agency how you appear on paper.
"I don't drink to excess" is a value judgement that one states when one's judgement is being impuned. How useful is that?

As opposed to "insight"....which appears to elude the OP, so I am of the mind that benyflyguy and Eldorado are on to something. I've got to say that I have read hundreds of such essays and 40+ % of the time the airman writing the essay triggers his own demise. Even if he escapes that, when he gets in front of the evaluator, he manages to ring the bell.

Then there is the guy who occasionally posts here ("volitation" iirc), who simply wrote" I knew at that point I could not drink....and I quit". When I read that I knew he would be allright. Now THAT was a personal statement. Even his avatar reflects that he "saw the light".
 
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Years ago while getting a security clearance polygraph they asked one of my coworkers if he abused alcohol. He asked if they meant like pouring it on the sidewalk, he just drank it like everybody else.
He got his clearance anyhow.

I had a time explaining to them the places I stayed in Russia... well it looks like THREE then an A, a P, and a backward R....
 
bbchien said:
And you are to the agency how you appear on paper.
"I don't drink to excess" is a value judgement that one states when one's judgement is being impuned. How useful is that?

As opposed to "insight"....which appears to elude the OP, so I am of the mind that benyflyguy and Eldorado are on to something. I've got to say that I have read hundreds of such essays and 40+ % of the time the airman writing the essay triggers his own demise. Even if he escapes that, when he gets in front of the evaluator, he manages to ring the bell.

Then there is the guy who occasionally posts here ("volitation" iirc), who simply wrote" I knew at that point I could not drink....and I quit". When I read that I knew he would be allright. Now THAT was a personal statement. Even his avatar reflects that he "saw the light".
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I see we don't disagree.
 
Occasionally we get folks like the OP who tell a similar story with themes of "its not my fault" or "I was framed", "the cop was a jerk", etc.

I'm inclined to say: tell the FAA your story. Don't leave anything out. If you think you were framed, tell them. If you think you don't have a problem, tell them. If you think drinking while operating of a main road, far from town is okay, tell them that too.

We have a responsibility to make sure other aviators get the help they need, not a pathway to keep flying with questionable judgement. I agree with Bruce, Eldorado's advice is spot on.
 
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Brad Z said:
There must be some correlation between the jerkiness of cops and BAC. Somehow the more the cop is a jerk, the higher your BAC gets. #drunklogic
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"The cops are driving me to drink"! ;)
 
flyingron said:
Years ago while getting a security clearance polygraph they asked one of my coworkers if he abused alcohol. He asked if they meant like pouring it on the sidewalk, he just drank it like everybody else.
He got his clearance anyhow.

I had a time explaining to them the places I stayed in Russia... well it looks like THREE then an A, a P, and a backward R....
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The retired FBI agent doing an interview for one of my many clearances did not appreciate my comment "I'm not on that side of the business....give me lots of paper and pencils and I'll write down everything I know!" Nor did he appreciate my comment that for 55% or better chocolate, I'll tell you everything!

No sense of humor. But I got the clearance anyway.
 
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