Expired CFI to Sport Pilot CFI

B

birdtrick

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
21
Display Name
Display name:
Troy Hartman
Hi,

I have an expired instructor certificate (ASEL, INST, GLIDER) and am in the process of obtaining a Sport Pilot Instructor rating for powered parachutes. In asking around, I have received two very different pieces of information:

1) Passing the Sport Pilot Instructor checkride (powered parachute) will reinstate my expired instructor ratings.

2) Passing the Sport Pilot Instructor checkride (powered parachute) will require that I surrender my other Instructor ratings, and they will no longer be able to be reinstated. I would need to go through the entire process again to get each of those ratings back.

I can understand the Sport Pilot Instructor checkride not reinstating my other instructor ratings, but the idea that I completely lose those other (expired) certificates by adding a new Instructor rating is crazy to me.

Hopefully somebody can present the true answer on this.

Thanks,

Troy
 
Unfortunatly #2 came from the big boss in the Airmen Certification Branch in Oklahoma. But I still think it's BS.
 
FAA Order 8900.1 vol 5, Ch 2, Section 12 does not seem to substantiate #2.

I would send a message to the Training and Certification Group (AFS-810), the appropriate policy office, for proper clarification. The Airman Certification Branch (AFB-720) processes the applications, but is not responsible for issuing guidance or interpreting policy.

9-afs-800-correspondence@faa.gov
 
Last edited:
Get Basic Med, and get current on the other certificates???
 
Last edited:
WDD said:
Get Basic Med, and get current on the other corticates???
Click to expand...
Or do a reinstatement in an airplane that qualifies as an LSA, or in a glider.

My question is, how did the big boss in Airmen Certification get involved in the discussion?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
I could reinstate one of my instructor ratings but they are 25 years expired now and it would take a good amount of time and money. I’d like to avoid it if possible.

I’ve been speaking with the DPE that will be doing my Sport Pilot Instructor checkride and he was unsure of my scenario, so he initiated the conversation with the head guy at Airman Certification.
 
I sent an email to the Training and Certification Group as mentioned above and will post the reply.
 
birdtrick said:
I could reinstate one of my instructor ratings but they are 25 years expired now and it would take a good amount of time and money. I’d like to avoid it if possible.
Click to expand...

In what way? You need to take A check ride. Either for a Category/Class CFI you already have or a new one. My CFI has been expired for about the same amount of time, and I plan on adding MEI to get them all recurrent.
 
birdtrick said:
I could reinstate one of my instructor ratings but they are 25 years expired now and it would take a good amount of time and money. I’d like to avoid it if possible.
Click to expand...
Are you IFR current? If you are then the easiest and cheapest way is to renew your CFII. That is what I did and all it took was a couple of flights with an instructor to get famailiar again with flying from the right seat under the hood. The checkride with the DPE was less than an hour, doing airwork and 3 approaches well "teaching" the "student" what I was doing.
 
Any issues with getting a medical?
 
I was estimating $1000 to get checked out in a Cessna, then rent that same plane for the reinstatement, plus the examiner fee. I wanted to avoid spending this money and effort, but I'm to just go ahead and do it to be safe. No issues with my medical.
 
I believe the FAA’s issue is a sport CFI is issued without an aircraft rating and powered parachute is not a rating placed on any CFI or sport pilot certificate. They are going to make you do the test in an aircraft they issue a CFI rating for.
 
Last edited:
I want to teach Powered Parachute. The Sport CFI is issued for a specific category/class. Powered Parachutes are a specific rating. I currently have Private Pilot Powered Parachute on my license (but Commercial for single and multi engine). It's not a very uncommon scenario and most everybody at the FAA is confused by it.
 
Last edited:
birdtrick said:
I want to teach Powered Parachute. The Sport CFI is issued for a specific category/class. Powered Parachutes are a specific rating. I currently have Private Pilot Powered Parachute on my license (but Commercial for single and multi engine). It's not a very uncommon scenario and most everybody at the FAA is confused by it.
Click to expand...


Powered parachute means a powered aircraft comprised of a flexible or semi-rigid wing connected to a fuselage so that the wing is not in position for flight until the aircraft is in motion. The fuselage of a powered parachute contains the aircraft engine, a seat for each occupant and is attached to the aircraft's landing gear.

Powered-lift means a heavier-than-air aircraft capable of vertical takeoff, vertical landing, and low speed flight that depends principally on engine-driven lift devices or engine thrust for lift during these flight regimes and on nonrotating airfoil(s) for lift during horizontal flight.

(c) The following ratings are placed on a flight instructor certificate when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the rating sought:

(1) Aircraft category ratings -

(i) Airplane.

(ii) Rotorcraft.

(iii) Glider.

(iv) Powered-lift.

As you can see, powered parachute is not a rating on a CFI certificate.

SPORT PILOT

§ 61.317 Is my sport pilot certificate issued with aircraftcategory and class ratings?
Your sport pilot certificate does not list aircraft category and class ratings. When you successfully pass the practical test for a sport pilot certificate, regardless of the light-sport aircraft privileges you seek, the FAA will issue you a sport pilot certificate without any category and class ratings. The FAA will provide you with a logbook endorsement for the category and class of aircraft in which you are authorized to act as pilot in command.

SPORT CFI

§ 61.417 Will my flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating list aircraft category and class ratings?
Your flight instructor certificate does not list aircraft category and class ratings. When you successfully pass the practical test for a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating, regardless of the light-sport aircraft privileges you seek, the FAA will issue you a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating without any category and class ratings. The FAA will provide you with a logbook endorsement for the category and class of light-sport aircraft you are authorized to provide training in.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. So it’s just a logbook endorsement for Sport Pilot category/class. I didn’t realize that.
 
Also, no check ride. Just fly with and get endorsed by two different CFIs for that category/class Sport Aircraft.

I looked at doing my gyroplane rating, but everyone assumes you just want the Sport Pilot endorsement. I want it at the Commercial level. :D
 
Pinecone said:
Also, no check ride. Just fly with and get endorsed by two different CFIs for that category/class Sport Aircraft. :D
Click to expand...

I know this is how it is for adding an additional category/class to a sport pilot license. Is it the same for sport pilot CFI?
 
lsaway said:
I know this is how it is for adding an additional category/class to a sport pilot license. Is it the same for sport pilot CFI?
Click to expand...
Sport CFI is a rating on a flight instructor certificate. It is not a separate certificate.
The following ratings are placed on a flight instructor certificate when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the rating sought:

(1) Aircraft category ratings -

(i) Airplane.

(ii) Rotorcraft.

(iii) Glider.

(iv) Powered-lift.

(2) Airplane class ratings -

(i) Single-engine.

(ii) Multiengine.

(3) Rotorcraft class ratings -

(i) Helicopter.

(ii) Gyroplane.

(4) Instrument ratings -

(i) Instrument - Airplane.

(ii) Instrument - Helicopter.

(iii) Instrument - Powered-lift.

(5) Sport pilot rating.
Click to expand...
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sport CFI is a rating on a flight instructor certificate. It is not a separate certificate.
Click to expand...
So for a sport pilot CFI to add an additional category to his/her CFI, it only needs a log book endorsement?
 
lsaway said:
So for a sport pilot CFI to add an additional category to his/her CFI, it only needs a log book endorsement?
Click to expand...
That’s the way the regs read.
At one time I was training to add powered parachute privileges at the Sport Pilot level, and then was going to add those privileges to my instructor certificate. My understanding is that I would have gotten an endorsement for the Sport Pilot privileges, a Sport Pilot rating on my Flight Instructor certificate, and an endorsement for Powered Parachute instructor privileges.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sport CFI is a rating on a flight instructor certificate. It is not a separate certificate.
Click to expand...


Then I’m confused, because there are Sport-only CFIs (“CFIS”). They only need to be SPs, not Private or Commercial.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
In other words, a regular CFI needs nothing additional to instruct Light Sport. Good to go as is.
Click to expand...
What if the regular CFI airplane wants to be an instructor for light sport glider?
 
In a twisted kind of way it almost makes sense. To be a "full" CFI, you need a commercial and instrument, and you can can get paid to fly airplanes, so you have an airplane rating on your CFI certificate. But without a commercial, a SP-CFI can't get paid to fly airplanes (so no airplane rating), but you can get paid to instruct Sport Pilots, so you have a SP rating on the CFI cert.

Greg Bockelman said:
a regular CFI needs nothing additional to instruct Light Sport. Good to go as is.
Click to expand...

I think that's not quite correct. Say you're a CFI with an airplane rating. Then you learn to fly, say, a powered parachute and get an endorsement for sport pilot privileges in a LSA powered parachute. But you you need an additional endorsement to instruct in a LSA PPC... and maybe a SP rating on the CFI ticket?
 
Can a regular CFI also have a CFIS? This circles back to the original question. If a CFI is not current and does not want to renew the CFI, but wants to instruct CFI sport gliders- does he have to give up his CFI license to get a CFIS? I understand that a current CFI doesn't need a CFIS and can just get logbook endorsements to train sport pilot in an additional category-class, but what about an expired CFI?
 
lsaway said:
Can a regular CFI also have a CFIS? This circles back to the original question. If a CFI is not current and does not want to renew the CFI, but wants to instruct CFI sport gliders- does he have to give up his CFI license to get a CFIS? I understand that a current CFI doesn't need a CFIS and can just get logbook endorsements to train sport pilot in an additional category-class, but what about an expired CFI?
Click to expand...
Adding a flight instructor rating reinstates all flight instructor ratings. Sport Pilot is a flight instructor rating.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Adding a flight instructor rating reinstates all flight instructor ratings. Sport Pilot is a flight instructor rating.
Click to expand...

Very Good. Sport Pilot is a rating, but how does one go backwards if he already has a higher rating? With a higher rating, a private pilot or above just adds logbook endorsements, not ratings for sport pilot adds and privaledges. I have never been a CFI, so I don't know anything about how the CFI ratings work.
 
lsaway said:
Very Good. Sport Pilot is a rating, but how does one go backwards if he already has a higher rating? With a higher rating, a private pilot or above just adds logbook endorsements, not ratings for sport pilot adds and privaledges. I have never been a CFI, so I don't know anything about how the CFI ratings work.
Click to expand...
One isn’t “going backwards”. Adding a Sport Pilot rating to an existing instructor certificate doesn’t take anything away from that certificate.

say you’ve got a Commercial Pilot certificate with Airplane-Single Engine Land and Instrument-Airplane privileges, and Private Pilot Privileges-Glider. You also have an endorsement for Powered Parachute privileges at the Sport Pilot level.

your Flight Instructor certificate has Airplane-Single Engine privileges.

you decide to add Flight Instructor privileges for Glider, but since you don’t have Commercial-Glider privileges, that will be at the Sport Pilot level. You take a proficiency check to add those privileges, and Sport Pilot will be added to your Flight Instructor certificate, with an endorsement for Glider.

You then decide to add Powered Parachute to your instructor privileges. Since you already hold a Sport Pilot rating on your instructor certificate, that proficiency check will only result in an additional endorsement.
 
Last edited:
I found this:
Private Pilot certified flight instructor or higher is considered a Sport Pilot Instructor (CFIS) for the category/class listed on their CFI certificate. For example, a Private Pilot CFI instructing in Single Engine Land can provide Sport Pilot instruction, endorsements and recommendations in a Single Engine Land aircraft.
Click to expand...

It looks like the SP rating on a CFI cert is just a placeholder since there are no aircraft category ratings. To add an additional category or class, you just need a "proficiency check" from a CFI (not a "checkride" with a DPE) and endorsement to instruct in that category, after a recommendation from another CFI.
 
A regular CFI can instruct in light sport anything his certificate allows for non light sport. Anything else, he needs additional training/endorsements.

That is as deep a hole as I am going to dig myself into.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
A regular CFI can instruct in light sport anything his certificate allows for non light sport.
Click to expand...


That worries me a bit. Do regular CFIs get any training on SP regulations? I've encountered several CFIs who didn't seem to know anything about them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top