Experimental -v- Certified

Trimup said:
Acknowedgement of both absolute and relative risk level.

The experimentals I have seen run the gamut from well thought out and wonderfully constructed to those that require battery voltage to run, but have unsupported wiring harnesses held together by crimp connectors. When it comes up the builders response is usually something that includes "but look at all the crashes experienced by the XYZ certified fleet".
Click to expand...

No argument there. I've come across some rather... novel wiring work on ultralights and experimentals, along with some decidedly scary powerplant choices and some pretty shoddy airframe work. Even the other ultralight pilots tend to avoid these jokers, who thankfully are in the minority.

Trimup said:
For the record my work in combustion labs makes me uncomfortable flying behind a new Lycoming or Continental certified piston engine . . . .
Click to expand...

May I ask why?

-Rich
 
Geico266 said:
How about iFlyRV-10? :dunno:


Has a nice ring to it. Think of all of the fun you'd have doing overhead breaks! :lol:
Click to expand...

I like iFlyTwins better. Besides, y'all can't figure out how to retract your gear! ;)
 
And even more retracs stay that way during landings, due to pilots with vision problems. It's hard to see with your head up your.



bartmc said:
Some RV's retract the gear automatically when you land :stirpot:
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
And even more retracs stay that way during landings, due to pilots with vision problems. It's hard to see with your head up your.
Click to expand...

"What's that horn?"
 
wabower said:
And even more retracs stay that way during landings, due to pilots with vision problems. It's hard to see with your head up your.
Click to expand...

What's that you say? "You gotta be smarter than the machine you're working with?"
 
bartmc said:
Don't most twins have that breaker popped?
Click to expand...

None that I've flown. The gear warning always works (similar to a stall warning but not continuous), and I would not disable it. When I'm training someone in a retract I make sure they know what it sounds like.
 
This is why we don't do retracts. I KNOW I'm gonna forget to put it down. Lol
 
Last edited:
Experimental vs. Certified?

I know when my heavy handed son broke the window latch on my 180, I laughed and said "that'll probably be $100."

$150.00 :mad::mad2:
 
Without experimental aviation GA for small ac would stay rather stagnant. Its people like Burt Rutan and the average Joe that keep the true spirit of aviation and the freedom it provides alive. I for one, do not want to live anywhere that experimentation and innovation are stifled. What would Orville do?

W/ high respect to all aviators and engineers big, and small.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
bartmc said:
To mess up a wayne quote... you gotta be smarter than the machine you're working with.
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing with you. My smarts go up to, but not including, retractable gear. A wise person recognizes their limitations.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Not disagreeing with you. My smarts go up to, but not including, retractable gear. A wise person recognizes their limitations.
Click to expand...

I'll probably have a gear up for this.....

But putting the gear down, would be like forgetting to put the flaps down. Even tougher to do than that if you throw in the warning horn, the fact that the gear helps you get to flap speed (i.e more than likley you'd have to forget gear and flaps) and religiously follow the check list. You outta notice before you scrub the belly... but I suppose the NTSB reports and insurance statistics show that it can be done. :D
 
I'm assuming many smarter people than I have managed to land gear up, as shown by the reports. Some of the time they were distracted at the wrong point in their check list. I agree it should be automatic, but I do land with flaps up sometimes. A stiff NE wind down the runway makes final approach in a C150 very slow with flaps down, and the same wind makes for a short rollout as well.
 
I want an aerobatic playtoy, and I don't care if it's certified or not.

Preferably not.

I'll wear a chute.
 
bartmc said:
Clean out the shed and build one. :D
Click to expand...


I wish I had that kind of time.

A buddy has a Pitts S-2C ??? I think it is.... two seater, 50TTAF, a little damage history to the left wings, but they fixed the wings and strengthened the top wing with a leading edge STC'd kit that supposedly makes it even better unless he's BS'ing me.

Anyway, $145K is what he wants. New one's go for over $300 according to him. I'm in no hurry, and the Pitts is not going anywhere soon it appears... what I'm really looking hard for is a Giles.

Extra's are just too damned high. The rent's too high! :D

images
 
Last edited:
Exactly what planet are you on to even suggest that a/c prices are in freefall? A new Cessna 172 (barely different from 2 decades ago) for a quarter of a million dollars?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
Who gives a s**t what someone flies...We are all pilots. We fly some sort of aircraft. So what... Maybe I fly a King Air, or a 747, you fly a RV 9, he flies a 152. BFD...We all fly, we all take the same risk, and we all have the same goals,,, to keep flying. Those that badmouth someone for flying the kind of aircraft they fly aren't into aviation and the promotion of aviation. They are on an ego trip that no one can derail. Easy to spot and easier to ignore. F*** 'em.

Noah Werka
 
Sorry... my previous reply was to:

steingar said:
Used to be you had to have your head screwed on wrong to not purchase an experimental. The price was less than a certified, and the aircraft did more, way more. These days that just isn't the case, since certified aircraft prices have gone into free fall you can get a lot of airplane for the money. It is just another of many options, and there are good reasons not to fly them. Among those are the uncertainties about what the FAA will do when the fatal accident rate doesn't go down, which it doesn't appear to be doing any time soon.
Click to expand...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


Just want to clear up any confusion. Both are great! Certified and non. But just think about Oshkosh turning into a new car show and only having 5 new a/c available to see and the only people to talk to about them are salesmen who may not care about anything but money and not aviation. I for one wanna participate in something that helps fulfill my personal quest for freedom and be a part of the community that desires the same. Both tracks are actually symbiotic in nature and most certainly not mutually exclusive. GROUP HUG?
 
Noah Werka said:
Who gives a s**t what someone flies...We are all pilots. We fly some sort of aircraft. So what... Maybe I fly a King Air, or a 747, you fly a RV 9, he flies a 152. BFD...We all fly, we all take the same risk, and we all have the same goals,,, to keep flying. Those that badmouth someone for flying the kind of aircraft they fly aren't into aviation and the promotion of aviation. They are on an ego trip that no one can derail. Easy to spot and easier to ignore. F*** 'em.

Noah Werka
Click to expand...

Thank you. :yes:
 
bartmc said:
I'll probably have a gear up for this.....

But putting the gear down, would be like forgetting to put the flaps down. Even tougher to do than that if you throw in the warning horn, the fact that the gear helps you get to flap speed (i.e more than likley you'd have to forget gear and flaps) and religiously follow the check list. You outta notice before you scrub the belly... but I suppose the NTSB reports and insurance statistics show that it can be done. :D
Click to expand...

Considering I have already had 4 happen in front of me...

A partial due to not giving the gear time to extend
A just forgot
A partial due to mechanical failure and lack of knowledge of the existence of the emergency extension system
And another plain forgot

This in less than a decade of hanging out at an airport 5+ days a week.

I haven't done it yet, but have had to shake the nose down on an arrow when a pinhole leak in a line left the gear partially extended, not allowing the free fall to pull the lock over center.
 
Duncan,
I think there is a youtube video of something similar. Guy is coming in with the nose gear partially extended but both mains down and locked. As the nose is lowered the gear bounces into the wheel well and rebounds back down a couple times then locks into position.
 
I just g loaded the plane a couple times, the light never stayed on but would flicker when hitting turbulence, so I was confident the gear was now over center but the micro switch not fully made.

As soon as the nose wheel hit the light popped on and stayed on, but I still shut down and visually verified it once clear of the runway. (Well actually I pulled the mixture before I even let the nose down)
 
Last edited:
bem411s said:
Exactly what planet are you on to even suggest that a/c prices are in freefall? A new Cessna 172 (barely different from 2 decades ago) for a quarter of a million dollars?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Used prices, not new.
 
bem411s said:
Exactly what planet are you on to even suggest that a/c prices are in freefall? A new Cessna 172 (barely different from 2 decades ago) for a quarter of a million dollars?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...


Oh yeah and they sell a lot of em nowdays at that price :rolleyes2:

Last year while I was there, almost every finished high wing piston waiting for delivery was a government painjob, both foreign and domestics.
 
kyleb said:
What kind of dumbarse would homebrew an engine? Hello, Darwin. ;-)

The reality is that it takes a special kind of person to succeed. Either someone with a heck of a practical and/or engineering background or someone who is persistant as heck. For everyone like Ben who succeeds, there are probably several less talented people who failed to develop a reliable system.
Click to expand...

One of the best quotes I've seen yet, given as advice to a newbie, was that if you want an airplane to FLY IN, install an aircraft engine. If you want to constantly tinker and wrench on it and jack around with a hundred different cooling arrangements and play with oil coolers and timing and ignition systems - and all that stuff turns your crank more than just FLYING - then go for an auto conversion with full recognition of what you're getting into.

It's not wrong - it's just different. I would never buy a Harley but a lot of people love 'em. Tinkers and garage mechanics have given us most of the "certified" hardware we use today, they just did it 70 years ago when there weren't all those certification standards to overcome and bleachers full of people yelling "Don't do it! You'll kill yourself!". They knew it was dangerous and did it anyway because they enjoyed it.

Full disclosure - I'm building an experimental because I don't like the compromises made upon the altar of marketing that the certificated factories have made in the name of profits. I prefer function over fashion, thus I build my own. If all I wanted to do was FLY, I would have bought a 20-year old C-152 for a third of what I've spent on my RV9A - but I didn't want to just FLY - I wanted to FLY MY WAY. That requires the path less traveled.
 
Last edited:
You may not be impressed with this installation but it sure works nice. Fast as hell too!
 

Attachments

  • Spencer V8.jpg
    Spencer V8.jpg
    252.1 KB · Views: 71
Goofy said:
You may not be impressed with this installation but it sure works nice. Fast as hell too!
Click to expand...

I'm impressed if it flies! :D. What I mean is cooling is always a huge issue with auto conversions. You say it is fast so it must fly within parameters of water cooled. Glad to hear it! :yes:
 
Very nice indeed - is that a LongEZ or a Berkut?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top