Experimental Pilots - How do you insure your plane for a reasonable rate?

I highly recommend Wing Insurance for at least my model of EXP, but I suspect others would do well with them.

I do have one comment; on another chat, a type-club forum, the moderator has taken up an insurance company issue he has identified. I don't know the truth of this but would be interested.
He vociferously and constantly claims that the aviation insurers share information.
So you cannot get more than one quote for our type (Lancair).
Once you put in your name or N# to a broker (feel certain my broker does not), that broker will then share all your proffered details with the few insurance companies out there and no hope to get a competing quote. Maybe there are so few underwriters out there that underwriter sharing is how this gets done...doesn't matter how.
He says he has hard evidence of this (and makes the claim of combines and monopolies violations).
If what he says is true, it is disturbing.
 
Sharing premium information is not illegal. This is kinda like Complaining that McDonald’s and Burger King are colluding by sharing their prices with each other.
 
Salty said:
When you are poor and buy an old used vehicle, the odds of it needing expensive repairs is quite a bit higher than when you're buying cars under warranty.
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I don't know about that.

My wife is still driving a 2004 Honda with over 300k on it. My first truck was a 69 Land Cruiser that had 90k on it and 380k when I sold it for more than it's original purchase price new. Never a major repair on either, just kept the maintenance up.

As a rule my Fords have been good for 150-200k, Toyotas and Hondas 300-350k before any serious problems. Take care of them and they will take care of you.
 
Salty said:
Sharing premium information is not illegal. This is kinda like Complaining that McDonald’s and Burger King are colluding by sharing their prices with each other.
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It becomes illegal when it is done to fix prices in an industry.
 
O2 Birddog said:
It becomes illegal when it is done to fix prices in an industry.
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Proving it is the difficult part. The data being public, is not price fixing.
 
Daleandee said:
Or build it ... as the case may be! :D
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An old family friend spent 22 years building one in his spare time. He didn't go bankrupt getting it done but he didn't live long enough to fly it.
 
O2 Birddog said:
An old family friend spent 22 years building one in his spare time. He didn't go bankrupt getting it done but he didn't live long enough to fly it.
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One of my mentors in learning to build aircraft spent 10 years building from plans. A beautiful plane that he flew a half dozen times and sold. Mine took about three years to build & I had a plane to fly until this one was completed.

Likely could have just bought a plane for the same money but building is a great enjoyment and I know who built it & how it was built. I'd like to build again but some more pressing things are on the plate now so that will have to wait.
 
Daleandee said:
One of my mentors in learning to build aircraft spent 10 years building from plans. A beautiful plane that he flew a half dozen times and sold. Mine took about three years to build & I had a plane to fly until this one was completed.

Likely could have just bought a plane for the same money but building is a great enjoyment and I know who built it & how it was built. I'd like to build again but some more pressing things are on the plate now so that will have to wait.
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There is a great sense of accomplishment that comes with building your own I'm sure, especially one that takes you over a decade to complete in your spare time.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Once you put in your name or N# to a broker (feel certain my broker does not), that broker will then share all your proffered details with the few insurance companies out there and no hope to get a competing quote. Maybe there are so few underwriters out there that underwriter sharing is how this gets done...doesn't matter how.
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It's not "sharing", but yes, there are few underwriters. Your broker submits your info to several underwriters for quote and he or you can pick the best deal. If you go to another broker, they'll be submitting your info to the same underwriters, and the under writer doesn't want to waste time requoting you to another broker. As I understand it the broker's commission is pretty standard so for any particular underwriter you're not going to get a better deal shopping different brokers.
My broker (Falcon) typically presents me with quotes from three different underwriters, recommends one, and lets me choose.
 
I too use Falcon, and have been pleased. Up until the past year or so, it seems that the rates have been climbing.

As to cars, I too buy cheap used cars, that serve me well. The most I'm willing to pay for a used car is about $3k, but for that price it must be outstanding. the cheapest cars that I own are Mercedes. They hold up well, are not too expensive to maintain, and seldom require repairs. I gave $600 for an S500, $1800 for an E420, and $1800 for an ML320. Sold the S for $3500, still driving the other two. Our Pontiac, was $500, with 65k miles, It now has over 400k, and has been retired from service.
 
I've heard chatter recently that the jets seized by the Russians as part of the Ukraine war will be counted as insurance losses totaling over 10 billion. This will likely involve huge rate spikes across all aspects of aviation for 2023 quotes.
 
Considering acts of war are excluded in every policy I’ve ever seen, that doesn’t make much sense to me.
 
Hull damage is the killer. You expect the insurer to cover a LOT of expensive parts.

Drop Hull and simply save up a cash reserve, aka self insure.

You might be able to get liability under a general umbrella policy, but you'll need to talk to the underwriter about specifics
 
Related question: I looked at a nice experimental near me, recently. Build completed, AW cert received, but the builder had a stroke and doesn't trust himself to fly anymore. Has not started the 40-hours fly-off, so a brand-new experimental.
Went thru EAA for an insurance quote. As a not-yet-tailwheel-endorsed pilot (for a tailwheel experimental), with 250 hours total, the $5500 quote for hull + liability was reason for pause. But, the catch-22 problem is that the insurance doesn't start until after 15 hours of dual in the aircraft, followed by 10 hours of solo. How can the 'fly off' happen? Just 'run naked' (i.e. uninsured) for the first 40 hours? If so, what's the point of insurance?
 
40YearDream said:
Related question: I looked at a nice experimental near me, recently. Build completed, AW cert received, but the builder had a stroke and doesn't trust himself to fly anymore. Has not started the 40-hours fly-off, so a brand-new experimental.
Went thru EAA for an insurance quote. As a not-yet-tailwheel-endorsed pilot (for a tailwheel experimental), with 250 hours total, the $5500 quote for hull + liability was reason for pause. But, the catch-22 problem is that the insurance doesn't start until after 15 hours of dual in the aircraft, followed by 10 hours of solo. How can the 'fly off' happen? Just 'run naked' (i.e. uninsured) for the first 40 hours? If so, what's the point of insurance?
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In that scenario, I'd probably be looking for someone experienced to do the 40 hours either with me or without me. More because of the "250 hours total" than anything else. Your alternative is to find a flying aircraft you can train in.

Frankly, with 250 hours total, before doing flight testing, I would want you to have more than 15 hours in type for your personal safety. To say the least, with your experience level, initial flight testing will be very difficult if you've never even flown the type before.

If I were in your shoes and really wanted to do the test flights myself, I'd be finding at least something similar. And I'd be flying several aircraft new to me (but that have already proven safety records) so that I had more experience flying aircraft I'm not familiar with. Getting that experience in an aircraft that's untested and uninsured seems like a really bad idea.
 
40YearDream said:
Related question: I looked at a nice experimental near me, recently. Build completed, AW cert received, but the builder had a stroke and doesn't trust himself to fly anymore. Has not started the 40-hours fly-off, so a brand-new experimental.
Went thru EAA for an insurance quote. As a not-yet-tailwheel-endorsed pilot (for a tailwheel experimental), with 250 hours total, the $5500 quote for hull + liability was reason for pause. But, the catch-22 problem is that the insurance doesn't start until after 15 hours of dual in the aircraft, followed by 10 hours of solo. How can the 'fly off' happen? Just 'run naked' (i.e. uninsured) for the first 40 hours? If so, what's the point of insurance?
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I did the first flight & 40 hour phase one for the experimental aircraft I have now, which is my first tailwheel airplane, sans insurance. I received my tailwheel endorsement a few months earlier. But I had almost 200 hours flying a nose roller Sonex that was my plane before this one was built. So I knew how the plane should handle but the tailwheel part was going to be a new experience. All went well on the first flight but my first landing attempt was a go around. ;)

In your particular case I don't believe test flying an unfamiliar plane that someone else constructed would be a wise choice. You really need a test pilot with time in type and I'm guessing most test pilots would want some insurance in place. FWIW my insurance now as a low time tailwheel pilot flying an experimental is less than 20% of your quote and includes hull along with liability.

You could call Victoria @ A.I.R. and see what they would quote as I have received great service and rates from them. In the situation you are in I don't know that anyone is gonna give you a much better rate, if at all.

All the best with your pursuit ...
 
40YearDream said:
Related question: I looked at a nice experimental near me, recently. Build completed, AW cert received, but the builder had a stroke and doesn't trust himself to fly anymore. Has not started the 40-hours fly-off, so a brand-new experimental.
Went thru EAA for an insurance quote. As a not-yet-tailwheel-endorsed pilot (for a tailwheel experimental), with 250 hours total, the $5500 quote for hull + liability was reason for pause. But, the catch-22 problem is that the insurance doesn't start until after 15 hours of dual in the aircraft, followed by 10 hours of solo. How can the 'fly off' happen? Just 'run naked' (i.e. uninsured) for the first 40 hours? If so, what's the point of insurance?
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I recently was involved in almost that exact scenario. The builder had passed away before ever flying the Waiex. An A&P pilot flew off the 40 hours and did all the little fixes and adjustments that need to occur during that 40 hours. He then gave me a couple familiarization flights in it before I started checking out the new owners and meeting the insurance requirement.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
40YearDream said:
Related question: I looked at a nice experimental near me, recently. Build completed, AW cert received, but the builder had a stroke and doesn't trust himself to fly anymore. Has not started the 40-hours fly-off, so a brand-new experimental.
Went thru EAA for an insurance quote. As a not-yet-tailwheel-endorsed pilot (for a tailwheel experimental), with 250 hours total, the $5500 quote for hull + liability was reason for pause. But, the catch-22 problem is that the insurance doesn't start until after 15 hours of dual in the aircraft, followed by 10 hours of solo. How can the 'fly off' happen? Just 'run naked' (i.e. uninsured) for the first 40 hours? If so, what's the point of insurance?
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A) Is the deal good enough you could get a friend or a local hot-stick to fly the phase 1? You could transition after that.
B) If the deal is good enough, you could just get transition training (dual) in someone else's airplane, maybe get someone to fly the initial flights, then you fly off the remainder of phase 1.
 
RV-8A, $89K hull value, commercial/instrument/CFI, 1,000 TT, 200 in type - $1150 through Old Republic. This is my third year with the plane. The premium actually went down $40 at the last renewal. When I bought the plane, they required a checkout from a CFI who had 25 in type. They were good with me flying right seat in an RV-6A with an instructor who met the experience requirement. I got the checkout prior to completing the purchase, plus my plane was built without passenger rudder pedals and engine controls.
 
Dana said:
What if you total it in the first year? You're not gonna replace it for the $2K you've saved so far.
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If you don’t survive, the crash probably doesn’t matter. And if you do survive the crash, you count yourself lucky and move on. At least that’s how I always looked at.
 
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