Experimental 4-seaters under $75k?

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Johnbo

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Johnbo
Im starting to get a bit frustrated with the Cessna 182 shopping experience as I struggle to find a good one before another buyer gets it. I also think I may be trying to buy a $90k airplane with only $75k which is never going to work.

What options do I have that could fit the mission profile of a 182 (150mph cruise with good short field capability) in the experimental world? RV10 and Bearhawk come to mind but they are both going to be way over $100k.

BTW, it is worth noting that it doesn’t count to buy a plane for $70k knowing that it will need a MOH and prop work in the next 1-2 years as I consider that effectively a $95k airplane. I would like to get a lowing time motor, and very basic IFR for $75k.

Do I have options in the experimental world or do I need a second job?

Thx.
 
You might find a Bearhawk or a Cozy Mk IV. But, my guess is its gonna be the same problem as with the 182. The ones in your price range, you're not gonna want. The ones you want aren't gonna be in your price range. JMHO, YMMV, DQMOI.
 
What is "short field" for you? That could open up or close off a bunch of options.
 
EdFred said:
What is "short field" for you? That could open up or close off a bunch of options.
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2000’ grass at max density alt of 4000’ in the summer.
 
Johnbo said:
2000’ grass at max density alt of 4000’ in the summer.
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Obstacles? 2000' with no obstacles is way different than 2000' with 100' sycamores at each end.
 
Are we talking 4 seater, or planes that can actually take off with 4 adults and fuel?
 
EdFred said:
Obstacles? 2000' with no obstacles is way different than 2000' with 100' sycamores at each end.
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Don’t know but let’s assume that if we have a 50’-75’ tree that it isn’t right at the end of the runway. My home airport is 2400’ and no trees for another 700’ or so but I want to get in and out of charted grass strips that are usually 2500’...so I set a margin of error by specifying 2000’
 
I would get a Cherokee 180 in your budget. Or even a 200hp Arrow
 
Fiveslide said:
Are we talking 4 seater, or planes that can actually take off with 4 adults and fuel?
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Somewhere in the middle for the moment. Meaning we are a family of 3, not so heavy and our son is only 45lbs. I think our combined weight is around 320 lbs. 95% of the time they will be the passenger load. I’m not anticipating needing be at full gross on any shorter field situation.
 
JC150 said:
I would get a Cherokee 180 in your budget. Or even a 200hp Arrow
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This is what I thought too. There's a lot of good Arrows out there that fit your bill.
 
Not that it isn't a good idea, but that Cherokee 180 won't hit the 150mph criteria... the Arrow likely will.
The 180 does have a decent useful load though, close to some of the 182's depending on each planes configuration.....and should get to about 130mph range.
And with the Hershey bar wing, you can drop them down quickly for those short field landings ;)

Buddy of mine flies his 180 out of a 2300 ft. grass strip (I91) regularly, no real obstacles on either end though.
 
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yup, ^^^^^^ thats my plan. no intention of racing after the financed crowd in present circumstances. but i have a plane to hold me over while this occurs, so i can wait for the shakeout.

--break break--

technically there are some debbies, older v tails, along bench seat (pre 65) comanches in that price range. i have some reservations about owning any of the three, and would personally prefer a 182 , but not gonna get into it publicly. PM me if you want more info. otherwise, technically you can find all three in that price range today, understand you'd be buying at the top of the market. ditto for the arrow, which i own one. but if you can swing 75 then you can get into 250hp birds, which is what i would do if i didnt already own the arrow. i of course spent much less than 75 to acquire said arrow, so we need to compare apples to apples.

good luck.
 
Exactly how inflated is the market right now? Are we talking 10-20% or more vs a few years ago? What is driving all of this?

An old Bo would be nice but would hate to see my insurance quote without any complex time.

The arrow seems like an interesting option. Not much cheaper but they seem to be better equipped on the panel and Lowe time motors for the same price.
 
Johnbo said:
Exactly how inflated is the market right now? Are we talking 10-20% or more vs a few years ago? What is driving all of this?
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I would say at least 20% over a few years ago. What is driving this could sway the discussion into the prohibited political realm.
 
FORANE said:
I would say at least 20% over a few years ago. What is driving this could sway the discussion into the prohibited political realm.
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This is not an attempt to derail so please start a new thread if needed. Why is the politics of aviation and the items that surround it off limits?
 
jallen0 said:
This is not an attempt to derail so please start a new thread if needed. Why is the politics of aviation and the items that surround it off limits?
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Forum rules...
No new thread needed.
The economy is booming, people have work and plenty of backup job options, people have cash in hand. Look around, prices are rising on most everything.
 
FORANE said:
I would say at least 20% over a few years ago. What is driving this could sway the discussion into the prohibited political realm.
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More buyers with money than sellers that need it. Nothin' political about that.

Rgbeard said:
Dakota?
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I would imagine tough to find one of those for $75k.

But, an older Cherokee 235 might fit the budget and the criteria.
 
in the experimental world basic answer, NO. basic economics, with kit costs,engine cost, avionics cost any 4 seat experimental is going to cost well over 100k to build. nobody is going to going to take that kind of a hit to sell it at that low of a price.
 
https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...&model=180&listing_id=2361286&s-type=aircraft

This would work $77,500 but certified



display-asset
 
That 180 is in Summer Shade, KY. Is there a dealer up there who specializes in bargain aircraft? Several years ago, I was looking for a Champ/Luscombe/Taylorcraft and a bunch of the aircraft I found online were located there. I never could figure out what the common thread was.
 
There isn't anything in the experimental world that meets your criteria. There are a few Canards that meet price, seating, and speed but are no where close to STOL. There is a Jabiru J430 on Barnstormers right now that comes the closest to meeting all your requirements as you are likely to get. Not much of a useful load but has 4 seats, cruise 138 mph, should handle a 2k grass strip, and is priced at only 60k with only 45 hours.
 
They’ll be a few one offs that’ll come close to your criteria but good luck finding a Wheeler Express or a White Lightning. The canards won’t be getting off a 2,000 ft grass strip. You’d be rotating about that distance.
 
I thought maybe going the experimental route would have opened up options...seems far better choices exist in the certified world.

Bo with a 470 would be interesting...what kind of insurance would I see vs the 182...2x?
 
Johnbo said:
I thought maybe going the experimental route would have opened up options...seems far better choices exist in the certified world.

Bo with a 470 would be interesting...what kind of insurance would I see vs the 182...2x?
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Your insurance premium will be impacted more by the value of the airplane than the configuration.
 
Johnbo said:
Bo with a 470 would be interesting...what kind of insurance would I see vs the 182...2x?
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Once you get 100 hours in type and an instrument ticket, it should cost about the same as any other aircraft of similar hull value. Until then, it'll cost more. A tailwheel plane would be similar in this respect.
 
Johnbo said:
I thought maybe going the experimental route would have opened up options...seems far better choices exist in the certified world.

Bo with a 470 would be interesting...what kind of insurance would I see vs the 182...2x?
Click to expand...

If you’re worried about insurance costs an experimental isn’t going to reduce premiums...

A Bonanza isn’t going to have a high premium. Assuming comparable hull values, I’d expect a premium about 33% higher on a Bonanza than I would on a 182. I had about 10 hours of complex time and 200 total time when I bought one, insurance was no trouble and wasn’t too expensive.
 
Johnbo said:
Im starting to get a bit frustrated with the Cessna 182 shopping experience as I struggle to find a good one before another buyer gets it. I also think I may be trying to buy a $90k airplane with only $75k which is never going to work.

What options do I have that could fit the mission profile of a 182 (150mph cruise with good short field capability) in the experimental world? RV10 and Bearhawk come to mind but they are both going to be way over $100k.

BTW, it is worth noting that it doesn’t count to buy a plane for $70k knowing that it will need a MOH and prop work in the next 1-2 years as I consider that effectively a $95k airplane. I would like to get a lowing time motor, and very basic IFR for $75k.

Do I have options in the experimental world or do I need a second job?

Thx.
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My hanger mate has a C175 with an O-470 in it that you could get for half of your budget. It meets all of your requirements. It will TO on grass at gross in 500 ft. Adding the rest of your budget would give you a really nice, capable aircraft. PM if you want more details.
 
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