EVs and gas tax

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Dave Taylor
Didn't see it posted. Random thought.
Are they fully exempt from contributing to maintaining roadway infrastructure?
Or, is that something they can expect later?
As we see a larger population of EVs, seems like this might be an issue.
 
California now charges ~$100 annual registration fee (on top of regular registration fees) for EVs.
 
Didn't see it posted. Random thought.
Are they fully exempt from contributing to maintaining roadway infrastructure?
Or, is that something they can expect later?
As we see a larger population of EVs, seems like this might be an issue.

I think it is something they can expect later. I know it is being discussed a lot, not sure if any states have actually implemented anything yet.

NJ brilliantly (I kid...) set the gas tax to auto-index as needed to maintain the desired revenue flow. So when we use less gas, either because we are being conservation-minded or because gas is stupid expensive, the gas tax automatically goes up. When we are burning fossil fuels like there is no tomorrow, the gas tax goes down.

Our gas tax also goes into the general fund, for pet pork projects. NJ long ago got rid of any requirement to actually spend it on something as boring as roads.
 
Some states have it, some don’t. I imagine eventually all will. The dealership I bought my Tesla from sent me a rebate for the exact amount that my EV tax was. I believe Georgia is around $235 annually right now.
 
In Massachusetts they are talking about a state wide toll or charging per mile. Of course this will be in addition to the gas tax, not in place of it when they do it.
 
In Massachusetts they are talking about a state wide toll or charging per mile. Of course this will be in addition to the gas tax, not in place of it when they do it.

and don't worry... they'll figure out that they need to tax people even if they don't use the roads (yes, I'm in taxachusetts also)
 
It's a state tax issue so there are 50 different answers to your question.

My state, Tennessee, charges an extra $100 at registration each year to replace the gasoline taxes that you are not paying. I've heard that some states charge as much as $200 or $250.

Depending on the price of gasoline, state gasoline tax amount or rate, and the amount of driving an EV owner does, I think most would break even somewhere in the $75 to $150 range per year. Drive your EV more, and you get a better deal. Drive less; and you're paying more in tax than an equivalent ICE driver.

You could tax by the mile but then you need a system for monitoring mileage and calculating and collecting the tax. That could be very complex with GPS tracking and electronic reporting or as simple as a odometer report or check at registration. In any case, I'm not sure that it would be work the effort. The flat fee, as long as it's reasonable is close enough, in my opinion, is very simple to administer, and costs very little to collect as the state is already collecting the annual registration fee.
 
You are way off on the $75 to $150 number. In Connecticut tax is around 70 cents per gallon. Assuming most people drive about 15k miles a year and assuming an efficient car at 35mpg that equates out to $300 a year in gas tax. You would have to drive only 7500 miles a year or somehow get 70 miles per gallon to only pay $150
 
Mileage tax. It will hurt the rural people the most, but that would be a bonus for the administration.
How is that different from now? Rural people drive further causing them to use more gasoline, so they pay more taxes. A mileage tax does the same thing as a gasoline tax- they pay more tax because they drive further.
 
How is that different from now? Rural people drive further causing them to use more gasoline, so they pay more taxes. A mileage tax does the same thing as a gasoline tax- they pay more tax because they drive further.
My experience is the opposite. When I lived in the sticks I drove about half what I do now living in the burbs of Charlotte.
 
My experience is the opposite. When I lived in the sticks I drove about half what I do now living in the burbs of Charlotte.
Please consider replying to @Morgan3820 as I didn't make the statement. I merely questioned how the conclusion followed.
 
You are way off on the $75 to $150 number. In Connecticut tax is around 70 cents per gallon.
As I said, it's a state tax issue so 50 different answers. I live in Tennessee. We're 27.4¢ per gallon. Here, $75-$150 is in the ballpark for most drivers.

I don't drive many miles per year so I'm "overpaying" at the current $100/yr rate as compared to what I'd pay for a 30mpg ICE car. That's fine. A flat $100/yr is simple and close enough.
 
How is that different from now? Rural people drive further causing them to use more gasoline, so they pay more taxes. A mileage tax does the same thing as a gasoline tax- they pay more tax because they drive further.
You are right!

But please don't sic @Tarheelpilot on me. My day has been bad enough already.
 
If anything wouldn’t it probably help rural people who tend to drive larger, more fuel inefficient cars? If you go to pure mileage rather than gas tax, that F350 in the country is now paying the same rate per mile driven as a plug in hybrid Prius in the city whereas before it was paying a factor of the mileage ratio more (likely on the order of 3x per mile assuming a 20MPG and 60MPG respectively).
 
If anything wouldn’t it probably help rural people who tend to drive larger, more fuel inefficient cars? If you go to pure mileage rather than gas tax, that F350 in the country is now paying the same rate per mile driven as a plug in hybrid Prius in the city whereas before it was paying a factor of the mileage ratio more (likely on the order of 3x per mile assuming a 20MPG and 60MPG respectively).
Agreed Assuming that they remove the gas tax, which I don’t think would happen.
 
A flat $100/yr is simple and close enough.

If EV owners don’t want to pay a mileage tax then I suppose they wouldn’t have a problem eliminating the gas tax all together and just charging a flat rate to everyone regardless of what they drive, how much they drive or how much gas they do or don’t use??
 
Agreed Assuming that they remove the gas tax, which I don’t think would happen.
Okay but if the alternative is raising the gas tax, implementing a mileage tax + keeping gas taxes constant still impacts rural people less than the alternative.
 
I think it is something they can expect later. I know it is being discussed a lot, not sure if any states have actually implemented anything yet.

NJ brilliantly (I kid...) set the gas tax to auto-index as needed to maintain the desired revenue flow. So when we use less gas, either because we are being conservation-minded or because gas is stupid expensive, the gas tax automatically goes up. When we are burning fossil fuels like there is no tomorrow, the gas tax goes down.

Our gas tax also goes into the general fund, for pet pork projects. NJ long ago got rid of any requirement to actually spend it on something as boring as roads.

Washington State and Oregon have implemented registration tiers. I don’t know if I have enough posts yet to share links, but Washington and Oregon definitely have an EV fee with registration, and it’s also more to register a more fuel efficient car, and honestly, as a driver of an efficient vehicle, I’m not complaining. If I’m putting wear and tear on the road, then it’s only right for me to take some responsibility for that. Just because it takes me less gas to go 100 miles than it takes friend with an old car that get lower mileage doesn’t mean she’s putting more wear on the road. The additional fee for me currently works out to about 20 gallons of gas a year. Getting the car I have was my choice. Getting the car she has wasn’t. She can’t afford my car, and I won’t complain about the privilege I had to have a choice.

What NJ’s doing doesn’t make sense. Less driving means less wear, so why up the gas tax?
 
Please consider replying to @Morgan3820 as I didn't make the statement. I merely questioned how the conclusion followed.
I was just sharing my experience between rural and urban driving patterns. Don’t see how it matters which one of you I quoted. You were both talking about it in the thread.

edit: I just reviewed the posts. I quoted correctly. I was responding to what you said in the post I quoted.
 
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I expect there to be higher registration fees. Like the kind where your might want to make quarterly payments.
 
In my state, an extra registration fee is taken annually to make up for the difference. The strange bit is that I get a partial refund of the gas tax every year when I file the state taxes based on the gallons of gas that I have actually bought. I cannot understand why they haven't just lowered the gas tax instead of issuing a million partial refunds. Although issuing the partial refund will keep people employed on the state rolls. I suppose it does also require a person to read about the tax benefit or pay someone to help with their taxes, so there is that bit of money being exchanged.

Never mind, it totally makes sense now.
 
As always anyone who thinks the government should be collecting more money is free to write a check to whatever government they think needs it. They will gladly accept it.
 
If EV owners don’t want to pay a mileage tax then I suppose they wouldn’t have a problem eliminating the gas tax all together and just charging a flat rate to everyone regardless of what they drive, how much they drive or how much gas they do or don’t use??
I would pay less with a tax based on mileage. I don't think it's worth the extra cost and complexity. At least, not for passenger cars.
 
Well. I guess we won’t be able to have this conversation. Don’t see how it will avoid the ROC verboten subject’s.

Perhaps one day over a beer.
 
I was just sharing my experience between rural and urban driving patterns. Don’t see how it matters which one of you I quoted. You were both talking about it in the thread.

edit: I just reviewed the posts. I quoted correctly. I was responding to what you said in the post I quoted.
I wasn't supporting nor detracting the premise. I was only asking how the conclusion followed from the premise. As I didn't make the premise, I can't properly reply to the comment you made. I don't know whether all rural residents drive further than urban or suburban drivers.
 
GA has a registration fee of $213 (as of 2021) that rises with inflation.
 
You could tax by the mile but then you need a system for monitoring mileage and calculating and collecting the tax. That could be very complex with GPS tracking and electronic reporting or as simple as a odometer report or check at registration. In any case, I'm not sure that it would be work the effort. The flat fee, as long as it's reasonable is close enough, in my opinion, is very simple to administer, and costs very little to collect as the state is already collecting the annual registration fee.

The Federal government has already been looking at GPS tracking as a means of taxing. It has been proposed several times. Of course I'm sure that's the only reason the government would want to track your vehicles every movement. :rolleyes:

Don't forget, the government doesn't really care about the efficiency of a program. I believe it was the city of Detroit that figured out several years ago it's parking enforcement division, despite generating millions in annual revenue, actually was costing the city money to operate.
 
Don't forget, the government doesn't really care about the efficiency of a program.
They don't, but I do!

I believe it was the city of Detroit that figured out several years ago it's parking enforcement division, despite generating millions in annual revenue, actually was costing the city money to operate.
Miami has an elevated automatic people-mover system in downtown. Initially, there was a fare to ride and you can still see some of the infrastructure at the stops which controlled access. They figured out that collecting fares cost more than they were collecting so now it is free to ride. A rare instance of good management by government. Of course, it was a local government, not Federal, which helps.
 
The Federal government has already been looking at GPS tracking as a means of taxing. It has been proposed several times. Of course I'm sure that's the only reason the government would want to track your vehicles every movement. :rolleyes:

Don't forget, the government doesn't really care about the efficiency of a program. I believe it was the city of Detroit that figured out several years ago it's parking enforcement division, despite generating millions in annual revenue, actually was costing the city money to operate.

Quite true. I haven't seen more recent numbers, but years back it came out that the massive organizations running the NJ Turnpike and Parkway were spending almost 90% of their revenue just to run the massive organizations. Very little actually went into maintaining the infrastructure of the roads and bridges.
 
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